Feel so low after my children opened up.

[nolovelost]

Long story, but I've always felt close to my daughters. But in the space of two weeks they've both said independently that they feel closer to their dad (we're separated), that they have more in common.

They are typical teenagers and all they've wanted to do during lockdown is chill in their bedrooms, and I've tried to be understanding but at the same time tried to encourage half an hour to an hour a day of family chats etc and an activity I think they'll like. Turns out they don't really enjoy the things I choose! But they seem happy that we've made the effort to communicate a bit.

At their dad's, they love watching the same programmes together for hours, which is fine but they don't really do much else. They're happy. They've been sleeping until mid afternoon and don't have their eve meal until 10 pm. They know that doesn't work here as I'm up early for work so I'm not cooking late at night etc, which they understand and I encourage them to get up earlier here.

They say that they love me the same as their dad etc and my youngest said that she couldn't wish for a better mum etc, but what they've said about being closer to him has hit me with the heaviest brick ever. I never expected my kids to say it.

Now I'm questioning where the hell I've gone wrong as a mum, and taken it so personally, I'm so low.

For years myself and their dad have got on well since separation, (when more got on for the sake of the kids as he's done and said some bad things) but things have happened more recently that have made me cut him out of my life (it's easier to do as the kids are older). He's a narc, always right, has no empathy and thinks he knows it all.

My girls think that I am over reacting getting upset about it.

Some honest opinions please but no flaming as I'm feeling very delicate.

Thank you.

You've done nothing wrong. I disagree. It’s massively wrong to emotionally manipulate the DC and question their loyalties and who they’re closer to, to lay on guilt trips re feeling concerned that they feel closer to their dad.

It could in fact go some way towards explaining why the DC feel closer to their dad.

It is so, so difficult. Honestly, you need to let him get on with being him. Forget about him. They will learn.

@nolovelost
He's a narc, always right, has no empathy and thinks he knows it all. He will be able to ensure they feel closer to him as he will play the part well- if he’s a narc he will be a master of putting people into the places he wants them. When he wants them. As they grow up they might not play the roles he wants and he will ditch them. A true narcissist cannot be a good father so his time will come when he can’t play that role any more and it will be your and their fault and you will pick up the pieces.
BUT you need to- in the kindest possible way- get a grip. They are your CHILDREN and not your best friends so you don’t need to have stuff in common or be the best or whatever shit you’re getting all worked up about. You teach them to be kind and respectful and you give them security which I voices boundaries and you feed and clothe and love them. You don’t put emotional pressure on them to shore you up and you don’t get them to pick sides. Speak to a friend about your feelings or the Samaritans if you’re not coping. Not your kids.

I think you need to relax and stop trying so hard. It sounds like they’re under pressure from you to prefer you. They may be closer to their father now but that will probably change as they get older. When my daughter was younger dad was definitely the fave fun one and I was the nurturer. It’s changes as she reached her twenties and she’s closer to me now. It doesn’t mean she loves her dad any less. I have no idea why this situation would make you feel suicidal. Imagine how that would devastate your children.

Kids are bloody awful and mainly selfish. Please don't take it to heart.

This. They probably also think as a pp said they did, that their dad 'needs' them more and that you'd cope ok, because they see you as the coper. However, that means that when trouble strikes it will be you they come to. Try not to get too upset about this. Stick with your boundaries - they'll appreciate it when they're older.

That must have hurt, but you have to remember that you're parenting them while he's just hanging out with his daughters. There's a big difference.

Hinestly, OP? They feel closer to him right now because they are teens and he hasn't moved on from that teen state: sleeping late, no motivation, no rules, late night snacking. He wants an easy life and so do they.

You are doing nothing wrong and everything right. Continue chatting with them. Continue explaining why you bother to set boundaries. I have always explained to my two that I hate being the boss, because it doesn't come naturally, and that I especially hate it if they don't do what they need to do, because that means I have to nag and I really, really hate nagging. This helps them understand that I don't get them up at a set time or make them tidy their rooms out of some perverse power kick (which teens seem to think is the reason adults make them do anything) but because it's a life skill.

Make it really clear to them that everything you are encouraging or expecting them to do (that their dad doesn't - but don't say this) is for their own benefit, long term. But also listen to them and share out the power. Ask them to take it in turns to do something together - choose a film or a game, write a quizz, find a recipe to cook together, learn a dance routine etc - take turns and do one a day. Also let them make the rules during lock down twice a week. So if they choose to lie in, let that happen at weekends. Make it fun, with a late brunch. Listen to the reasons they find him easier to get on with and if some of them are things you could happily change then do. If they aren't, explain why.

Please don’t worry about this, I know in my life I’ve gone through phases of feeling closer to one parent than the other, but it changes over time, and I always loved them both equally!
Maybe rather than you always trying to think of fun stuff to do together, take it in turns with them to choose an activity or a film? That way they can share with you the stuff they’re into and it takes some of the responsibility off your shoulders. You sound like a lovely mum, and I’m sure they think so too

I think this situation is different but I don't think but is the case children are always closer to their mums. My dad was abusive but I do have a lot more in common with him interest wise. My mother and I are just very different. My friend is the same, she would always call her dad first if there was a problem.

However in this case he is a narcissist so he may well be manipulating them to prefer him. I don't think it is fair for making them feel bad about it. Your relationship with them is different, safer and they feel secure in it. As they get older they may see him for who he is, but even if they don't, making them feel bad about being closer to him will only push them further away. It is a hard situation

I think it's pretty normal for children to feel closer to each of their parents over time. If they'd come out and said it hurtfully I'd feel different, but it sounds like you instigated the conversation then didn't like the answer they gave. That's not very fair on them!

Are/were you equally close to your own parents?

If you felt suicidal over this and are even asking these questions at all then you need to be making a trip to your GP and getting some help. Do not out your emotions onto your daughter's. That isn't fair.

I really hope posting this thread is your first step towards getting help for yourself.

I preferred my Dad.

I feel like a lot of mothers think that when they have children, the children should love them the most for the rest of their lives.

It doesn't work like that. They are there own human beings. And they will make their own opinions.

OP you are parenting right ...with love,support and boundaries in place to equipt your girls to be decent humans.You will never win with a Disney dad who does sod all yet gets all the praise for so little effort and much less so little skills in parenting.I do not think you are doing anything wrong at all... He is doing your girls no favours and they will thank you in the long run when they themselves can see what patience,kindness and heartbreak it takes to be a good parent. May take a while for them to see but know you are doing your very best and continue on your track .

I have dc precisely the same age as yours, and they are always always playing my dh and I against each other. Most teens do.

My eldest will tell me Daddy is great because he buys chocolate, and helps with endless homework. Youngest will often hurl hurtful comments about me being the worst mother ever for suggesting she cuts back her screen time. I hear regularly how useless I am at everything. I can't even walk with my eldest dd because apparently it is embarrassing being seen with parents when you are fifteen.

DO NOT TAKE THIS TO HEART

The love you to bits, they just have teenage hormones. Finding ways to maximise each parent is par of the course no. I would always ask my Mum if I could do something, if she said no, I would immediately work on my Dad. Thats just happens.

You do not need to compare yourself to anyone, least of all their lazy Dad. They know deep down who really cares, and loves them. Who is always there for them.

Keep explaining why you are doing what you are doing (they know anyway) even if you are broken record, it will still go in somewhere. My mother always used to say this is for your own good, and she was right. It was.

I am worried you feel suicidal over this op, it is hurtful, and teens are hurtful. What would they do without you, this would be devastating for them. Do you have some RL support and help?

You feel suicidal because your children at the moment prefer the company of a person you despise (their father)?
Please see someone about that.

I think the children are confusing being "closer" to their dad with being happy they have no boundaries with him.

They get to do what they want when with him - they are not adults, yet, and will appreciate your boundaries and understand this is because you care.

As they grow they will see the narc versus the caring mum. Just elax and keep doing what you are doing

I really don’t think it’s a conversion you should be having with children about which parent they prefer, it could be seen as manipulative and you could not get the answer you wanted, like in this situation, and end up with your feelings hurt.

Teenagers are quite egocentric and if he lets them stay up etc then it probably feels easier to them. If he's a true narcissist they will open their eyes as they get older. It's amazing they feel secure/happy enough to be able to say that to you, I bet they couldn't have said that to him.

They have told you that they love you.

(Fantastic - and not typical of teens put on-the-spot. Don't let your well-being depend on their answers in future- especially not to the point of suicidal feelings. Saying something now is not the same as meaning something forever.)

They love their dad too- and can tell you that - despite all that has happened. This is healthy and a credit to your careful parenting during difficult times.

Does there have to be this competition over their relationship with their dad?

Must they be 'closer' to one of you? Can't they have rewarding and different relationships with you both? (Are you closer to one of them? What would you have said if they asked you that question?)

A warning from great literature: Shakespeare's tragedy King Lear starts with a parent asking children to declare how much love they felt... and didn't end well for children or parent. :)

Who they like to spend time with depends on many things and will change from occasion to occasion.

Teens like late nights and late mornings.

When you asked them who they were closer to - they were answering a different question.

There is another issue related to his narcissism. Children of narcs are trained up to be fine tuned to what the narcissistic parent wants and how he wants it. They learn from a very young age that love itself is withheld, and safety might be an issue, unless you behave exactly as he wants, right down to thinking the way he wants you to think, smiling when he wants you to be happy, noisily appreciating exactly what he likes and dismissing what he doesn't. As a teen you don't realise these aren't your own genuine choices; you are being manipulated and it's so deeply ingrained, it feels natural.

It's likely that they can actually relax and be themselves more with you, including standing up to you, disagreeing with you, expressing separation from you and your tastes. But they may well be too young to realise this.

I also think that the lower self esteem the mother has, the more she depends on the child loving her and preferring her the most.

Which is selfish, really.

I missed the suicidal bit. Talk to your GP

What kind of a question is that for an adult to ask a child? Sometimes children say that kind of thing to their parents, as a way of asking for assurances that they are as loved as their siblings. It's wildly inappropriate to say it to your children about their father/you. It's very needy. Children don't need that kind of emotional offloading
Mumsnet is actually quite a good place to mull that kind of thing over though, so maybe just keep it to here?

If that made you feel suicidal then you really need to get some therapy/counselling. You are tying your whole sense of self-worth and self-esteem up in how your daughters feel about you, and your insecurity and neediness around that are going to achieve the opposite of closeness with them. It's really unhealthy for you, and unfair on them. Please, find someone who is qualified to help you work through this.

Mine are much older, like 30 years older, but I'd say there were times they were closer to dad and times when they were closer to me. In truth they have got closer to me the older they are and feelings about dad have gone from he is the cool fun one to he is the unreliable one, they can't rely on him but if you ask them if they can rely on me they say they know if they come and tell me they've killed someone I'll get a shovel and bury the body.

Trust me it is a marathon not a sprint and you're barely at the first turn.