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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this paedophile opinion a massive red flag?

287 replies

Eternalconfusion · 03/05/2020 01:07

Namechanged for this.
New boyfriend of 5 months or so. I have dc (1 girl 1 boy both primary aged) he doesn't. I've been in previous abusive relationships so boundaries a bit off.
A month ago we were away for weekend and he voiced a theory - that paedophiles weren't to blame as such for their tendencies. Likened it to how society used to view homosexuals etc. I was horrified, voiced my opinion then asked him to drop it. (I can give further info on the details if necessary)
Since then I consciously forgot about it, reasoned with myself that as he doesn't have kids he can't understand etc.
Today something triggered me, I lost the plot then asked him for some space. He's in a huff, doesn't get why this is still an issue weeks later.
Please can I have your thoughts?

OP posts:
Servers · 03/05/2020 08:08

Glad you've told him to fuck off, I agree with PP that he was, disgustingly, probably testing boundaries. Makes me feel sick! Hope you're okay OP.

SliAnCroix · 03/05/2020 08:09

Glad you ended it.

Don't be too spooked. You listened to your intuition. He tried to slip it past you calmly as a very woke opinion and you didn't fall for it. He told you who he is and you listened.

Did he respond to the text? Did he demand to know why?

WarmestRegards · 03/05/2020 08:11

This reply has been deleted

This has been been removed by MNHQ for privacy reasons.

Eternalconfusion · 03/05/2020 08:14

Don't be too spooked. You listened to your intuition. He tried to slip it past you calmly as a very woke opinion and you didn't fall for it. He told you who he is and you listened.

Thank you for this! Easy to feel like a shit parent when you're doing it alone (especially on lockdown!) so going to keep re-reading all the posts that have said I did the right thing.

OP posts:
IWantT0BreakFree · 03/05/2020 08:15

Sounds like there were some big red flags but the ones I'm seeing are a bit different to yours. I don't think he's a paedophile or a paedophile apologist based on what you've written. I think he's absolutely right that for people who are sexually attracted to children, that attraction itself is not a choice. Abusing a child or accessing child abuse images/videos is ALWAYS a choice. I disagree with you that all attraction is a choice - wouldn't gay people throughout history (and today in some societies) simply have "chosen" to be attracted to the opposite sex instead of enduring persecution, imprisonment, murder, torture, lynchings? Wouldn't people in marriages with a spouse that they love but have lost their attraction to, simply "choose" to be attracted to them again? Wouldn't people who get their head turned by someone they shouldn't, also "choose" not to be attracted to that person? Attraction is not a choice. Him voicing this is not a red flag.

The red flags are his comparison to homosexuality (if he was simply making a point about sexual attraction, why not make it about straight people? He sounds homophobic) and the fact that he has admitted to using this question as some kind of test in order to push boundaries, which is very manipulative.

Most importantly, you shouldn't be wrangling with this kind of discomfort about a partner. If you are unsure or having doubts, especially when it comes to your children, then it's always best to walk away. You don't owe him anything.

Sparkles333 · 03/05/2020 08:18

You are not a shit person, dont be so hard on yourself. You are a pretty good person from what i can work out.
You saw the signs and now hes gone.
Well done 🙂

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 03/05/2020 08:20

OP, can you just clarify? - if attraction is a choice, are you saying that homosexuality is a choice?

FFSFFSFFS · 03/05/2020 08:21

The comparison is to someone who kills or injures someone.

Well - its not even a comparison. A paedophile is someone who injures and harms children.

crustycrab · 03/05/2020 08:22

Fruit seriously? This is the shit convicted paedophiles come out with day in day out. I take it you've never worked with many. They also have zero empathy.

"I have read that there are programs to help paedophile s fight the attraction." There are programmes for sex offenders that increased their likelihood of reoffending and have since been removed.

OP you've done the right thing.

Xenia · 03/05/2020 08:23

He is right in terms of how they are internally but many are able to stop before acting on how they feel which is where we as a society draw the line. We don't so far kill babies at birth who have a propensity to this.

madcatladyforever · 03/05/2020 08:24

Why would you even bring the subject up on a date with a mother. I've known too many paedophiles (work) to be comfortable with that.
I don't care what his inference was he'd be dumped.

bloodyhellsbellsx · 03/05/2020 08:27

At worst he’s a paedophile, at best he’s got terrible chat and deserves to be dumped for that alone!

Strugglingtodomybest · 03/05/2020 08:29

I also read the Guardian article and saw the documentary, and agree that it's not a choice.

But it's just such a weird thing to bring up on a date with a single mum that I too can only assume he was testing your boundaries OP, so I think you've done the right thing here.

Eternalconfusion · 03/05/2020 08:30

Without wanting to actually debate this again, I'll just answer the question about attraction - no, obviously who we find attractive isn't a choice per se BUT surely internally we know the difference between attraction to a potentially consenting and reciprocating adult, who we can view as an option, and a minor, who cannot consent or reciprocate and therefore is not an option.

OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 03/05/2020 08:30

Well done, you must feel much better and freer.

On the general point, I used to think that paedophiles weren't to blame as such for their tendencies. That it was just another internal proclivity (albeit one that might have arisen for complex psychological reasons, rather than being innate, maybe). But I would never have Likened it to how society used to view homosexuals etc because consenting adults, of any sort, are not harming anybody, whereas paedophiles always are. (Though if the comparison was just to the idea, as above, that being gay is a psychological 'defect' that can be treated, then there is a similarity).

Jimmy Saville opened my eyes really. He was attacking children, old people, any and all sorts of vulnerable people. Just because he could (and presumably because he couldn't maintain a normal relationship, or thought he couldn't and didn't want to try and fail, so developed and practised the 'weirdo' part of his psyche instead). His was the definition of deviant behaviour; doing it because it was wrong, a sort of sick rebellion against societal norms and expectations - a big 'fuck you' because he wasn't up to the task of being a successful human being on society's most basic terms.

That made me realise that this is the same for a lot of (most? not sure about all though) paedophiles. They're odd-balls and fuck-ups of one sort and other, turned bitter, nasty and misanthropic and, like bullies, take out their frustrations on people smaller and weaker than them, who can't easily say no.

famousforwrongreason · 03/05/2020 08:30

he said it was something he asked on dates sometimes because he found it interesting

Vom. I have also worked with sex offenders and in various areas of children and vulnerable adults safeguarding and could maybe, just maybe give the benefit of the doubt in terms of him trying to explain clumsily 'factually pedophiles can't help their sexuality' BUT the law is there to protect children and regardless of their sexuality it should never be and WILL never be acceptable to have sex with children.
Lots of people who abuse children are not technically pedophiles, in fact they are just nasty dirty controlling sexual abusers.
Either way, the kind of bloke who brings this up regularly on dates sounds at best sick and controlling in terms of trying to make you uncomfortable and at worst, dangerous.
Personally I don't think it would hurt to flag him up with your local police sex offenders team.
He may well be already on their radar and if not, this won't hurt being recorded some where.

He reminds me of an abusive ex who caught me at a very low ebb and started to introduce confusing behaviour very early on (not child related). Because I was already vulnerable and because he was a very old friend, my boundaries were shot.
I'd challenge him every time and he'd play such twisty head games that ended up with me becoming very unwell during an already fragile time.

Full praise to you for seeing it as a red flag regardless of his intentions.
You say you have poor boundaries but in this scenario you acted fast and appropriately. You didn't allow him to intellectualise his way out of 'trouble'.
Maybe you can take comfort from knowing that you have your boundaries exactly where they need to be.

StuckInnTheMiddle · 03/05/2020 08:30

OP, can you just clarify? - if attraction is a choice, are you saying that homosexuality is a choice

Ffs the Op doesn’t need to clarify anything. This thread isn’t about her opinion on homosexuality

Shoxfordian · 03/05/2020 08:32

He was right that attraction isn't a choice, acting on it obviously is but having the thoughts in the first place isn't. Why would anyone choose to have paedophilic thoughts? I wouldn't have dumped him for having a debate but if you didn't like him that much anyway then fair enough

PurpleFlower1983 · 03/05/2020 08:32

Regardless of whether the attraction is a choice or not it’s fucking hideous and abhorrent, absolutely no comparison to homosexuality. You absolutely did the right thing OP.

Eternalconfusion · 03/05/2020 08:34

Maybe you can take comfort from knowing that you have your boundaries exactly where they need to be.

Thank you, I do find this really comforting after an entire life of abuse and zero idea of where my boundaries should be!

OP posts:
PeanutDouglas · 03/05/2020 08:35

Hmmmmm, not sure I think it’s necessarily a red flag. I don’t think I necessarily disagree with him. Paedophiles may be born that way; in fact my understanding is that the general feeling in the medical community is that there may be a predisposition for it. Doesn’t mean acting on it is anything other than abhorrent.

However, if he has said this (apropos nothing) and you have a gut instinct he is grooming then get rid

tomatoesandstew · 03/05/2020 08:37

I'm struggling to see what the issue is with what he actually said.
He didn't say child abuse should be legalised or that he likes paedophiles and thinks it's all great?. He said people's sexual preferences are not a choice. Totally different thing and not a rare opinion.

Eternalconfusion · 03/05/2020 08:37

To clarify - he wasn't homophobic in the slightest, the opposite really. He was saying that poor unfortunate paedophiles were viewed in the same way as homosexuals used to be (unfairly) and that they couldn't help their attraction to children so long as they never acted on it.

I don't know, the whole thing is just weird, whatever his intention.

OP posts:
incognitomum · 03/05/2020 08:39

@tomatoesandstew so you struggle with this even though he brought it up in a new relationship with a single mum? Hmm

quietheart · 03/05/2020 08:40

wouldn't gay people throughout history (and today in some societies) simply have "chosen" to be attracted to the opposite sex instead of enduring persecution, imprisonment, murder, torture, lynchings? Wouldn't people in marriages with a spouse that they love but have lost their attraction to, simply "choose" to be attracted to them again? Wouldn't people who get their head turned by someone they shouldn't, also "choose" not to be attracted to that person? Attraction is not a choice.

The amount of times I have heard a paedophile say this as if they are a victim of their own circumstances makes me want to vomit.