How much should we tolerate 'blokey'/sleazy male behaviour?

[NoMoreDickheads]

So, I agree nowadays with the poster on another thread who was given the creeps by a bloke she knew drunkenly saying while messaging as a friend that he would like to see her naked. I have blocked men for less, even for variations on 'hello beautiful' on messenger.

But I imagine that a lot of people would have a 'blokes will be blokes' attitude to stuff like that, and expect men to try and get sex or pics out of women, to make sexual talk and so on.

How much would you put up with this sort of thing from friends,, prospective partners, or boyfriends etc?

I think we might be talking at cross purposes Marie No woman should have to put up with your examples that's for sure.
During a job interview? Wow what an idiot!

SmileyClare

I just think it’s all part of the same spectrum. From sleazing over a greeting to more rigorous examples.

Either way women should be given the courage of their own convictions that they’re judging a situation correctly, rather than having to give a bloke the benefit of the doubt.

I’ve never been in an abusive relationship, hell Ive never been in a bad relationship. I’ve never done online dating. I’m able to read a situation. I owe men precisely zero!

MarieQueenofScots

So you've excluded all other interactions apart from men approaching women - does that mean you don't apply your first impression rule in situations other than an unknown man approaching you? So, a new work colleague saying hello to you wouldn't make or break the relationship? Why though?

And what exactly is it that you are defining as sleazy in the situations you've described you and your DD being approached in? I think a lot of the time what is said is less important than the context or how it is said.

I have zero issue with being judged on initial impressions. If I have spinach in my teeth or snort like a pig when I laugh or say something daft that someone finds off-putting, they do not need to sit through my future performances . I may think I'm marvellous, but other people may not.

And let's be real here, we're not talking about interviews which are when an employer is actively looking to fill a position, we're talking largely about blokes approaching women unsolicited. And in the case where the woman is actively looking for/open to meet someone, she is at liberty to apply what filters suit her online and in real life, she doesn't have to give every potential suitor a hearing.

I think people are being a bit disingenuous when they compare regional greetings to these type of approaches. I have no problem with "alright love", or "thanks me lover" etc in context.

I have no problem with "alright love", or "thanks me lover" etc in context.

What's the context though? Do you mean it's ok in the area where it's common place or it's ok if the person saying it comes from a region where it's common place?

I think, personally, it's not about what someone says, especially in the first couple of words, but in how they are, what else they say, their views on other matters etc.

Of course no one is obliged to like another person. They might be s perfectly nice person but you just have nothing in common.

I just find it a bit odd that someone can be declared sleazy only based on a greeting but it's up to you if that's how you to choose to judge people I guess, as long as you accept others judging you equally quickly.

I don't think it's disingenuous to bring up regional dialect. I wanted to point out to the poster who said she'd shudder at a man saying Alright darling and immediately assume he wasn't a decent person and was probably thick with a bum crack hanging out of his trousers!

A lot of judgemental stereotyping going on there.

Of course someone can be sleazy in a couple of words - it's in their body language, their tone, facial expression, the context of the approach.

And what exactly is it that you are defining as sleazy in the situations you've described you and your DD being approached in? I think a lot of the time what is said is less important than the context or how it is said

Well my 13 year old daughter was asked by a man on his stag do if she wanted to stoke his penis. She has had comments (on more than one occasion) on her breasts.

And what does it matter how an adult male approaches a 13 year old....

On my occasions? Well the guy interviewing suggested there was another way to measure his performance and we could dispense with the interview.

I was asked on a train if I was aware I had “a nice rack”.

At the event I was running I was asked if I wanted to celebrate after with a “bang”.

I would love to hear the context in which those comments are appropriate.

I would fucking love it if men were less tone deaf and judged in a snapshot which women clearly aren’t interested but they don’t. They think with their dicks.

Of course someone can be sleazy in a couple of words - it's in their body language, their tone, facial expression, the context of the approach.

Exactly. All you've described isn't just saying "hello beautiful" is it?

MarieQueenofScots

Again, none of what you describe is "hello darling" or "hello beautiful" is it? It's far more than that.

This is about behaviour other than just a variation of saying hello

I don't think anyone in their right mind would think your examples weren't sleazy unwarranted sexual comments /behaviour Marie . shall we dispense with the interview Jesus wept!

If we're looking at the original question, How much would you tolerate? there are different levels of acceptability for different people. It's interesting that Op and other posters agreed that "You have beautiful eyes" would be fine, but "Hi beautiful" is a glaring sign of a sleazy man. The intentions are the same aren't they?

In the context of a man approaching a woman in a bar or speaking to them online I would interpret a reference to appearance as an innocuous (albeit slightly) clumsy way of saying I find you attractive, do you find me attractive, are we on the same page here.. sort of testing the waters. I wouldn't be overly offended or label them sleazebag unless they refused to acknowledge my disinterest.

Again, none of what you describe is "hello darling" or "hello beautiful" is it? It's far more than that

As I said (again....) IMO its all a spectrum. I am zero tolerance of sleazy behaviour from “hello beautiful” (I mean fucking vomitous) to “hello darling” (yeah, never going to be anywhere close to your darling so fuck off).

It doesn’t matter what the opening gambit is, men seem to think they’re at liberty to do it and women should apparently “be nice”.

Yawn.

It doesn’t matter what the opening gambit is, men seem to think they’re at liberty to do it and women should apparently “be nice”.

Well, how do people approach each other then? How do you initiate a conversation with someone? I do find this really strange. Obviously a random man asking anyone if they want to stroke his penis is, well, more than sleazy but just striking up a conversation, as long as signals are accepted really is just normal human behaviour. I've often had people in queues, on buses, on trains etc start conversations with me. Men and women. Some wanted, some unwanted. Can't see that simply approaching someone in a friendly way is sleazy, outrageous or examples of women be nice. If so, then I certainly feel far more pressure to be nice to women who start up unwanted conversations because socially there's no good excuse to not talk to them is there? So, if anything, that makes me more uncomfortable and more pressurised to be nice.

I'd prefer it if no one spoke to anyone tbh.

Funny I give off a fairly “don’t talk to me” vibe on public transport - book out, headphones in.

Women read the signals, men don’t. Or rather more realistically men think they don’t apply to them.

It is pretty easy to navigate when someone wants to be disturbed or doesn’t.

I'm just wondering how (hello love alright darling) Dave on our local market would react if he handed me my pound of potatoes and I told him to Fuck off I'm not your darling
Maybe I shouldn't "be nice" but I really can't be bothered to give him a lesson on misogynistic language. He has good intentions.

I don't find Hello Darling sleazy in all contexts some people do. There's not really a right or wrong with that.

It is pretty easy to navigate when someone wants to be disturbed or doesn’t.

Clearly I'm missing those signals. It is literally a family joke now that I will always get accosted by someone. I feel too sorry for people and am always polite to them. In my experience women will strike up conversations, and do persist, even if I look back at my book or something. Then I feel obligated to respond. As I said, I find it much harder to disengage from women because it feels less socially acceptable. There's no reason to not speak and no way to really politely ignore them. You can't really say fuck off to an elderly lady talking about the weather can you, but I find that very intrusive and most certainly is a #be nice pressure that I feel.

Oh come on, you're not exactly arguing in good faith here, are you, Hearmyhooves . In what world does a human being not accompany words with body language etc? The only time words are not accompanied with more information is online.

How is it me not arguing in good faith? Other posters suggested that context etc was important and I said that surely you would let the conversation move on, even a little, from the initial two words but pp have said no. Anyone uttering "hello beautiful" is a sleaze, no further qualification. I'm going on what has been said by pp.

Don't be daft.

I can honestly say Plan, any man whose opening line is 'hello beautiful/gorgeous' is a complete dick and best avoided.

This was one example. No reference to tone, context, the way it's said. Just that anyone who says hello beautiful as an opening gambit is a dick.

I've not said that any man leading with that is a dick.

Surely people don't have to explicitly state every little thing? We all know that context is key in all human interactions, don't we?

Like, my boyfriend saying "hello beautiful" when we meet, is not sleazy and he's going to get some.
If he says it to his brand new lawn mower in front of me, I'd probably laugh.
If he said it to his ex in front of me, I'd probably crown him with a shovel.
If a looming stranger says it to me in a dark street while indicating his car door, I'm gonna run like fuck, etc etc.

I've not said that any man leading with that is a dick.

I didn't say that you said it. I said previous posters had said it and I've quoted one of them as an example.

Which is whoever's opinion. What I was responding to was whether a two-word greeting can be sleazy - and my response is, yes, yes it can.

Which is whoever's opinion.

Right, and I never said any different.

I was taking offence at your accusation that I wasn't arguing in good faith because I was ignoring body language etc. I wasn't. Other posters were and it their argument that I'm disagreeing with.

Maybe you should take up the "good faith" argument with them and tell them off for not considering non verbal communication?

But all human interaction is accompanied by other signals/information (apart from maybe online). It's silly to argue as if it can be completely isolated, because of course it can't. Do we really need to state that explicitly?

So going "Aha! it's not just two words, is it?!" is, to my mind, not a particularly good faith argument. (And no, that's not a direct quote .)

I think we've all agreed that the context of "flirty or sexual" comments is everything. It's an interesting thread though. I think people's definition of a sleazy comment varies. That opinion seems greatly influenced by the vernacular you're used to in everyday life and also whether posters are online dating.

I can imagine if I was on a dating site and I'd had 580 comments of Hi Beautiful, I'd be far less tolerant of that opening line!