How much should we tolerate 'blokey'/sleazy male behaviour?

[NoMoreDickheads]

So, I agree nowadays with the poster on another thread who was given the creeps by a bloke she knew drunkenly saying while messaging as a friend that he would like to see her naked. I have blocked men for less, even for variations on 'hello beautiful' on messenger.

But I imagine that a lot of people would have a 'blokes will be blokes' attitude to stuff like that, and expect men to try and get sex or pics out of women, to make sexual talk and so on.

How much would you put up with this sort of thing from friends,, prospective partners, or boyfriends etc?

Your reaction to a man introducing himself and giving you his number was to wish you could hairspray him in the face!

@SmileyClare There was the him stopping by me when I was walking at night and asking if I would 'like a lift down the road' too. But it's not about 'Tony' as an individual, it's the whole phenomena of sleazeballs. They can fuck off.

I'm not putting men into two camps as such- I'll try and keep an eye on what they're doing for as long as I know them. Because we have to as acquaintance rape etc is a thing.

Part of the thing is I have bipolar. It leads to my being more vulnerable to sleazeballs at particular times. So, I can't have anyone with sleaze tendencies hanging around in general, as they might be able to get involved at those times. I have to reduce the chances of that.

My reaction to it has to be more serious because of my health. So it might seem excessive to you in terms of the 'hello beautifuls' etc, but in my personal circumstances it's a rational decision not to take the risk.

'Tony' I just find bloody annoying.

I think it would be best to avoid all OLD or striking up male/female relationships at present, until you've healed.

I'm not doing any OLD currently as I'm not interested in meeting anyone in a dating context.
It's not a matter of needing to be healed, it's a matter of protecting myself from further sexual crime/exploitation in a way that's completely rational given my personal health. I'm identified by professionals as being at risk of sexual exploitation.

You might think it excessive but it's my personal choice not to be at risk of rape and exploitation (or even the unpleasantness of being creeped out) any more than I have to be.

I'm not even offended by your opinion as I don't care what other women might choose to do- I have absolutely no reason to want to keep men who annoy or creep me out around and so I won't, especially given my health.

My partner is from East London and will often say Alright darlin

I don't think I'd find darlin/love etc as creepy, though maybe slightly when it comes to darlin'. There's also a difference between a man saying it in public and for instance messaging it in private where it has a different potential connotation.

I see a lot of that thought process on here. It is definitely not failsafe and is a hair trigger to judge a man on an opening line alone

Yes but it's all we have in that moment in time. After that we can keep assessing. I don't need randoms in my life so I have no reason to bother with them if they display the slightest more potential risk than the average person. It's not worth it for the sake of nothing except politeness or whatever, or a potential lover (which I'm not looking for now) when they can be found without this shit, or sex/a potential relationship isn't worth having these ilk around to me at this moment in time.

Yes but it's all we have in that moment in time. After that we can keep assessing. I don't need randoms in my life so I have no reason to bother with them if they display the slightest more potential risk than the average person.

This seems eminently sensible to me.

I feel like women are often pushed to give men chances/are expected to have FOMO on any man, and to ignore the little things that send their alarm bells off. "Ooh he might be be really nice under his gruff exterior or Jack-the-Lad persona or whatever it is. And then down the road when something goes wrong, it's all "well, didn't you see the red flags a-waving?"

And sometimes that can be an ill-placed "hello beautiful"

I understand your rationale NoMore You probably are best to have strong defence mechanisms in place and "markers" to look for, particularly as you might be more vulnerable than most, or at risk of being exploited. You might feel you have to be on High Alert.
I'm not very knowledgeable on Bipolar disorder so apologise for that.

I can't help wondering if Online dating is suitable for you (at all)? My best relationships with men have developed from friendships or with friends of friends. I'm old though and don't have any experience of OLD, it sounds like a nightmare to me.
It's the ideal platform for sexual predators isn't it? It must be awash with men saying any old rubbish to get a quick shag. I could be wrong.

There are red flags you can look out for when you do start dating. These encompass more than just how men speak- it's equally important to judge actions and behaviour. You could look at The Freedom programme if you've experienced past abuse. You can do it online.

Anyway, don't want to derail the thread..

My partner is from East London and will often say Alright darlin, as will I!

I was just about to post the same thing - maybe it is a regional thing but is as common as "hello" in East London.

It's the ideal platform for sexual predators isn't it?

Having worked in the criminal justice system for a long time, I can confirm that this is true.

God, talk about judging a book by it's cover on here.

I wonder what sparkling whit and repartie some posters employ during conversation that means they never put a foot wrong? Do you all expect to be judged solely on an opening line or first impression?

Do you all expect to be judged solely on an opening line or first impression?

Quite happy. You only get one chance to make a first impression 🤷‍♀️

Hence why it’s important to be mindful about how one comes across and not put the onus on the person you’re talking to to give you leeway.

Do you all expect to be judged solely on an opening line or first impression?

Are you the kind of person who goes for five dates with some total loser to 'give him a chance' and who possibly also believes men can't see dirt, bless'em?

Are you the kind of person who goes for five dates with some total loser to 'give him a chance' and who possibly also believes men can't see dirt, bless'em?

Nope, not at all. Nor do I expect people to behave like robots though and score 10/10, according to my personal score card, on every interaction.

If you can accurately judge a person's character based solely on two words when you first meet then congratulations.

Do you think that you live up to those expectations for yourself? So, if you went for say a job interview and didn't say "hello" in the exact way the interviewer wanted you to, you would be completely accepting of being blanked following the interview? You wouldn't think that they should give you the opportunity to prove yourself?

Blimey. If only we could all be as perfect as some posters on here.

Quite happy. You only get one chance to make a first impression 🤷‍♀️

Really? So you're happy to be judged on say, your appearance, when meeting anyone for the first time? Or on the first two words out of your mouth? So, interviewing for a new job, meeting new work colleagues, a new friend - all justified in judging you based on their first impression of you?

Really? So you're happy to be judged on say, your appearance, when meeting anyone for the first time? Or on the first two words out of your mouth? So, interviewing for a new job, meeting new work colleagues, a new friend - all justified in judging you based on their first impression of you?

Appearance is a bit of a segue isn’t it? We’re discussing words aren’t we? And I’ve literally already posted that yes, of course I expect to be judged hence why I’m careful what I say.

Everyone judges on a first impression. If that first impression isn’t to our liking, anyone is free not to explore whatever type of relationship further.

Why shouldn’t a woman object to whatever opening gambit a man uses? Nobody is obliged to like anybody.

@SmileyClare I'm from Dorset & all the local (working class) men say 'alright' 'love/mate/mush etc instead of hello.
I say 'alright' at work to some of the posher doctors and they get confused, they say 'yes I am alright, are you?'!!? Haha

And I agree nothing wrong with a high viz jacket on the right man!

I think that judging on first impressions is normal human behaviour & quite often a woman's first instincts that something isn't quite right can be correct.

Appearance is a bit of a segue isn’t it

Why? You're the one who has said first impressions count. First impressions are formed from lots of things - not just words.

Nobody is obliged to like anybody.

Of course you aren't obliged to like everyone. I personally just think it's an unrealistic expectation to think you can accurately judge everyone based on a two word greeting. People aren't machines. We don't get it right all of the time. I can't believe that you honestly expect every interaction you have to stand or fall based on your first two words. Aren't you scared everyone that you might fluff your lines and be shown the door?

And I’ve literally already posted that yes, of course I expect to be judged hence why I’m careful what I say.

How can you be careful about what you say? You don't know what the other person's "rules" are do you? How do you know what their acceptable first words are?

How many 'chances' should women give before we can turn a man down?

We all judge people based on first appearances. We are all at liberty to decide for ourselves if we want to see if our first impression can be changed or if we want to move on. We dont owe other people our time and attention.

How many 'chances' should women give before we can turn a man down

I don't know. How many chances do you want someone to give you?

How can you be careful about what you say? You don't know what the other person's "rules" are do you? How do you know what their acceptable first words are?

Well I tend to work on the basics of social niceties. So “hello” rather than “alright darlin”

But then I don’t approach random people and inflict myself upon then.

I don't know. How many chances do you want someone to give you?

As many or as little as they want to 🤷‍♀️

But then I don’t approach random people and inflict myself upon then.

So you've never spoken to a stranger? Surely, everyone that you meet for the first time is a "random"? How do you meet people, make friends, speak to new work colleagues?

Pertella

Fair enough. I just never realised that people were so quick to judge, based just on your initial greeting. I know plenty of people who I have completely changed my opinion of down the line, in both directions. People that I didn't like particularly or didn't think I have much in common with have become good friends and some who.i initially liked have shown their true colours. Maybe it's because I'm shy. I've been told before that I appear stand offish. I'm not, I'm just uncomfortable meeting people at first. Good to know so many people have immediately written me off.

So you've never spoken to a stranger? Surely, everyone that you meet for the first time is a "random"? How do you meet people, make friends, speak to new work colleagues?

New work colleagues aren’t random people. You’re there with a mutual purpose. Friends you mostly meet in a place where you’re there with a common purpose.

But it is a uniquely male attribute IME to approach women in situations where you have no idea whether your advances would be welcome and insist upon sleazing. So no, I have never done that.

Some of this seems to be a side effect of online dating and the fact that social interactions and conversations are conducted only by messaging.
The sheer number of candidates you're faced with online force people to make snap judgements based purely on a photo and a couple of words. People are immediately discarded at a glance. Add into the fact that most sites are teeming with liars, predators etc, people have to be extremely risk averse (and rightly so) but also become incredibly picky and judgemental.
It's also sometimes impossible to judge the tone of the written word or pick the general demeanour of a person when it's all in text.

I don't think that should automatically translate in real life. As someone said earlier, it all seemed much less complicated in the 90's!

That said, it's every woman's right to turn down a man for whatever reason.

Places I’ve been sleazed upon in the last 12 months.

Public transport twice
A conference I was running
A guy I was interviewing

Places my 13 year old daughter has been sleazed upon.

Public transport
Countless times walking down the street.

I’ve managed to get to the age I am, and never done those things, one wonders why men find it so difficult 🤷‍♀️

The sheer number of candidates you're faced with online force people to make snap judgements based purely on a photo and a couple of words.

Exactly. An unsolicited "alright darling" as a text based message would get a different reaction to a man saying it to you in person where you have more cues to make a judgement.