My 9 year old daughter hits us, punches us, kicks us, screams at us, and i dont know what to do :(

[JuatWantAdvice506]

Hello, seeking some advice. I feel lost.
My 9 year old daughter is amazing at school, as far as we know she gets on with her work and plays well with her friends.
But at home, it's like a whole different child.

She can be amazing and lovely and so funny. But even before lockdown, she had moments of lashing out but since lockdown it's been everyday.
Me and dp have been punched, kicked in the knees, she pulls her fists up at us, she punches me in the head multiple times,
She will hold us down and swing her hands around our necks like a monkey. When we try and get her off us or move her hands away to stop her punching us, she claims we hurt her and that she'll tell school, when we don't.
I just dont know what to do :( i filmed her backlash tonight which resulted in her trying to snatch my phone and try and hide it. I just feel like a useless mum and i broke down crying as she was punching me in the head the other day.
They happen for no reason as far as I see. Afterwards, I sit her down and tell her i love her and ask why she has done this and she said she doesn't know. We've tried to find other solutions like drawing, writing, punching pillows, behaviour charts, but she just always resorts to being violent.
She ripped the behaviour chart off the wall, she's smashed about 3 tablets by throwing them in a temper.

I just dont understand. Her sister is 7 and doesnt behave this way. Me and dp hardly fight and if we did, we'd never be violent to each other. It's getting us both down.
Any tips? And thank you in advance!

Yes school will take you seriously if you really explain in detail.

One of their remits at the moment is to safeguard vulnerable children, which right now she absolutely is because of her reaction to the situation and the impact it is having on you as a family.

Phone them and be absolutely blunt that you need help because DD is not currently 'safe' at home.

We have asked her in the past if anything is worrying her and she always says "no",
We thought maybe it was because her little sister has a physical disability so maybe she is seeking some form.of attention?

Your husband is a complete ninny. Your daughter is running rings around him. He needs to stop every single thing he is doing here.

Sounds very similar to my niece and she did up with ASD and ADHD and PDA diagnosis.

Your DP needs to wake up that her behaviour is different and seek professional help.

You can self-refer to CAMHS. You don’t need a GP appointment but waiting lists can be years.

There is a book called “What to do when your temper flares” - a CBT book for kids - it is very useful and revealing when you work through it together with your child.

I know two very violent teens, they are both very well behaved in school and have amazing grades but they can beat the hell out of their mothers (blood, bruises and broken bones included) and still pretend they are the victims when the police come. Contrary to what may be thought, they are the children of affluent parents that are well educated and provide for their every need, so honestly, ask for help, you need it.

If the school doesn’t take you seriously, try every possible route.

*Op do you ever punish her? She attacks and you tell her you love her etc. Is there any repercussions for her behaviour?
**
*Because if not she could be doing it because she can.

This ^

Everyone is quick to shout autism but maybe she is just doing what she is getting away with. Not every violent child is autistic.

We have been through this and come
through the other side. We wondered about the autistic spectrum but it was a form of extreme anxiety and wanting to be in control. The behaviour was fear driven. It helped us to view her as a frightened little girl who needed help rather than a naughty girl who needed punishing. Things did improve massively.

First of all I want to offer a hug.

My son is 13 now and we had everything you described almost every day after school at primary, got a bit better at secondary. He'd smash up stuff, hurt his brother, threaten to kill us or himself and physically hurt us from age 5 up.
We asked for 'early help' 3 times. He got 6 sessions of counselling in school but noone would assess him for autism/ADHD or PDA, as he is perfectly behaved there. He was also clever enough to work through their calming techniques with them and just refuse point blank to do them in a meltdown, it's like he knew what they wanted to hear for sessions to be over. The first head teacher said she'd get him to do homework there as that was one of his triggers, the second head had been through similar so understood completely, got him to do responsible things at school, like feed her fish. None of it actually solved it, but it's better others know.

This lockdown has been a nightmare as even though in yr9 you'd think he'd understand that he needs to do work at home he does maybe 10 mins. Then anything else involves him screaming and crying at us. We've always been good at carrying through on punishments, he knows if he does not do the set work his Xbox, tablet & phone are gone until it's all done, so he now just removes them from his room instead😮 He'd rather do nothing all day than an hour of work. This is how he's always been.

I always kept notes of how the behaviour started that day, what was said/done on both sides. I recorded video and sometimes just sound, as often after an episode he wouldn't remember half of what he'd said or done. Definitely take notes to your GP or if you can phone your school on Monday ask for an Early help referral, this is not a normal tantrum.

Keep asking for help, I'm very annoyed our local child & adolescent mental health team brushed us off and private diagnosis of PDA costing £1000 is often ignored.

Feel free to ask me anything or rant if you need too

@OnlyToWin i'm.so pleased you manage to sort it!how did you find that out?

Sorry if im not replying to everyone, i am really appreciative and trying to answer all questions

I think she's got her dad wrapped around her little finger and you've both been too soft and not consistent with consequences. I'd more say she's attention seeking rather than autistic because she just wants her own way like any child does. Dad needs to stop giving in.

That sounds so blunt I'm not trying to cause upset, that's what I got from reading your posts. It is really horrible when things aren't under control so if you feel the GP is the best way to go then there's no harm in that.

@M4shy it's comforting to know i'm not alone.
Yes my daughter is the same with work,
If she gets.something wrong or doesnt understand, she refuses to carry on. We havent had much routine with work atm, we've gone for a more "spend an hour or two a day whenever that may be approach" as we thought a relaxed pace of.work would help her.more, but i'm starting to think I was wrong and a routine is better?
So have you not had any diagnosis for your son yet?

In all honesty OP you could be at the start of a long and hard road. There is no funding for vulnerable kids and you will be so lucky to get seen by CAMHS. If she masks at school then your only hope is if the SENCO is truly well experienced. I would ask they bring in an educational Pyschologist and ask that they observe her in school and at home if possible or at least watch the home videos and read the diaries you keep. They can often spot when a child appears to be fine at school yet is actually finding certain things difficult. There are so many possibilities here. Unfortunately if she is making you will find it even harder to get help other than parenting courses. Try joining the group 'not fine in school' on Facebook. It's amazing what teachers miss especially with a class of 30. Read up on various additional needs and try aomw of the checklists to see if you can narrow it down. Good luck.

@MoonlightMistletoe thank you for advice! Family members have all been shocked by her behaviour in past as theyve also seen it, they call it "spoiltisis",
It is causing me and DP to argue and I'm worried it's going to make DP depressed as he works all day and comes home to a mad house

Thanks OP

We could not see the wood from the trees and needed a family member to take a more sympathetic view. I was frazzled and just constantly annoyed with her. We were in a very negative cycle. Once we broke that cycle I was more willing to ask “what’s wrong?” rather than tell off straight away. I also got better at noticing triggers and when tantrums were brewing and trying to distract etc.
I think I had to get over the “she should not be behaving like this and why is she?” And just accept that she was and that she would only improve if I continued to patiently teach her the skills and be more forgiving when she lacked them. It all felt very counter intuitive and like I was being too soft but it did work and things are much better now. She is able to reflect on those times and explain how she felt. I will never forgot one time mid meltdown she said “help me please” and that broke my heart. Kids do well when they can. They don’t want to be badly behaved. Wishing you luck and sending all the best.

@PerfectPenquins they are my main worries - the fact that i may be brushed off with a "well she's fine here, we dont see a problem",
I'm hoping the videos will help.my case as surely you dont need to be an expert to see that punching, kicking etc. are not normal tantrums for a 9 year old

*masking at home not making!

Not every violent child is autistic

Absoltely. People are too quick to jump to something being wrong. But if this little girl has been doing this since she was three and always got away with it with no repercussions other than her parents telling her they love her, then there is an overwhelming chance she’s doing it because she can and she gets away with it. If it doesn’t go her way, this is how she behaves.

Well said @moonlightmistletoe.

You're not doing her any favours allowing this. If you can't overpower a 9 year old I'm sure your DH can. Stop her hitting you!
It'll be worse as she gets older, if you don't, and she won't forgive you for allowing her to do it. Irrationally.

@OnlyToWin yes i feel the more days it happens, the more i'm finding myself snapping in terms of shouting at her and I am not a natural shouter and i hate shouting at her!
Thank you for your advice! I am writing notes whilst reading the responses of some ideas and strategies.
I genuinly dont believe she means her "outburts" as afterwards she is sorry and embarrassed by them

I’d also add the fact she doesn’t do it at school means she can control it.

And that again lends weight to the fact she’s doing it because she can.

@bluntness not necessarily if she is masking that's very different and is very exhausting for the child.

Use the Young Minds parents helpline on Monday -cant recommend it highly enough, they can also arrange telephone consultations with therapists - for you to give you advice.
youngminds.org.uk

Also - meltdowns and tantrums are best left to run their course and then be talked about afterwards. There is no getting through to a child during this time. The part of their brain that would respond usually is totally shit down. I got into a bad habit of saying “right no party, no toys, no etc, etc” during these times and it was like throwing petrol onto a fire. Best to ignore - disengage and deal with when the red mist has lifted - hard to do in the moment though.