My 9 year old daughter hits us, punches us, kicks us, screams at us, and i dont know what to do :(

[JuatWantAdvice506]

Hello, seeking some advice. I feel lost.
My 9 year old daughter is amazing at school, as far as we know she gets on with her work and plays well with her friends.
But at home, it's like a whole different child.

She can be amazing and lovely and so funny. But even before lockdown, she had moments of lashing out but since lockdown it's been everyday.
Me and dp have been punched, kicked in the knees, she pulls her fists up at us, she punches me in the head multiple times,
She will hold us down and swing her hands around our necks like a monkey. When we try and get her off us or move her hands away to stop her punching us, she claims we hurt her and that she'll tell school, when we don't.
I just dont know what to do :( i filmed her backlash tonight which resulted in her trying to snatch my phone and try and hide it. I just feel like a useless mum and i broke down crying as she was punching me in the head the other day.
They happen for no reason as far as I see. Afterwards, I sit her down and tell her i love her and ask why she has done this and she said she doesn't know. We've tried to find other solutions like drawing, writing, punching pillows, behaviour charts, but she just always resorts to being violent.
She ripped the behaviour chart off the wall, she's smashed about 3 tablets by throwing them in a temper.

I just dont understand. Her sister is 7 and doesnt behave this way. Me and dp hardly fight and if we did, we'd never be violent to each other. It's getting us both down.
Any tips? And thank you in advance!

@JuatWantAdvice506 - is she paranoid OP? Ie does she also act out when she thinks you and DH are talking about her?

Ahh thanks @reefedsail that makes sense. OP autistic girls especially when bright, can mirror really good social skills and fit in brilliantly with peers. But it is so stressful for them, they can melt down at home as you describe.

This might sound like a bizarre suggestion but could it be linked to her being hungry and then being told eg to get off the iPad? I have two DS with autism and our 4 year old really struggles with transitions when hungry and/or tired. We also 'schedule' things like tablet time so every day he knows 'no tablet between these times'.

Agree with pp that it is vital that you and your DP are on the same page.

So sorry you are having such a tough time

Should have added my niece also has ADHD

At about 5pm it is usually tea time, i'm trying to think of something specific that causes it though because she usually comes to tea fine, it's usually after tea it starts,
It's almost like she's bored and trying to release the energy

i love MN and remember a similar post about a 6 yr old child.
one of the posters posted the following information.

i saved it, it seems really useful information.

SEN teacher here. No reason to think it's anything more than her age and testing boundaries so don't jump to additional needs etc. You've tried lots of different things, too many, stop and pick one route and be 100% committed. You cannot waver at all, no "oh I let her off because she's been good today" you can't allow that, the only way to reset is to strip everything back. And you're looking at 6 weeks realistically to make any long term changes so don't give in after a week when it's not working.
1.) clear out all toys that she's broken and spoilt. She can't have them because she hasn't looked after them.
2.) all pens and scissors removed from her height.
3.) most toys gone (move to the loft/throw/mums house whatever you have to do but they need to be out of sight and she can't know they are near otherwise she will just kick off till she get them back). Do all this while she is out. She has to learn to look after and enjoy her items not destroy them and refuse to tidy up.
4.) when back explain that lots of her toys she had broken so they had to be thrown away and that you've let her keep her favourite toys but she needs to prove that she can look after these if she would like anything new in future.
5.) toys must be easy to tidy away, i.e. Two on the bed all others must fit into a toy box, it's not fair to expect her to tidy up if this is too difficult. Explain that you will help tidy away but she needs to be doing it too. If she refuses explain that any toys left out will be removed for two days. She will kick and show off, makes no difference, let her, remove the items and put them where she can't reach. Have a space ready as this will happen.

1. Be consistent and let her know before hand what is happening, i.e. Monday after school is swimming food and bed

Tuesday is tv from 3:30-5 and then food and bed Wednesday is playing with toys till 4:30 and then food and bed Thursday is bath time Whatever it is it needs to have set times and she needs reminders, put them on your phone and tell her ten minutes before then end and then five minutes before the end.

1. Tidy up time can never be missed, it's a nightly routine.
2. When she tries to hit you, hurt you, scream at you whatever, just stay calm, do not cry, just repeat I love you and I always will but I do not like your behaviour so I'm going to walk away from you. And walk away. If she flows you shut yourself in the kitchen or bathroom (if you are happy that she can't come to any harm and obviously keep checking) most the time you will know where she is because she will be outside smashing the door trying to get to you. Let her scream and kick the door, get it all out of her system, and then once she's over the worst go out and say "would you like short story before bed?". She may then get angry seeing you again and start again. If so let her. Do not engage with screaming just stay calm. The sooner she realises that the behaviour isn't getting her attention (negative or positive) the sooner it will stop.

Always praise the good, praise praise praise, thank you for helping me with putting stuff away we have time for a longer book/cuddle now. Thank you for helping me you are such a good help to me. Thank you for being so kind, you've made me feel so happy today. You've done the wonderful, how clever. Etc. Anything you can find to praise do it. It will not be easy, you have to realise how bad it is and how much you need this to change and be strong now because it will only get worse till you become unmovable. Kids love structure and to know where they stand, don't waver, don't give an inch. You may be up for hours of screaming the first week as she won't like this and will be sure she can break you. Cry once she's asleep. You've got this, you can do it, but it's not easy, but you can do it. Stay strong mumma, tomorrow is a new day.

cut and pasted from another tread.

positive thought it helps.

I have suggested autism or ADHD to DP but he thinks i'm being silly because how can she have those when she is amazing and one of the top of her class in school

Many people with ASD and ADHD have exceptionally high IQs and do very well academically.

I have a child with both diagnoses OP. When the psychiatrist was diagnosing the ADHD she took me aside and asked me how my DH was taking things. She said in her experience fathers are about a year behind mothers in recognizing the need for and then accepting a diagnosis. I certainly had a very difficult year getting my DH to agree to get my son reviewed - he minimized every sign that all was not right and found the diagnosis very difficult to accept. Thankfully we’re all on the same page now and getting a diagnosis has really benefited my son.

Autistic children ‘mask’ at school, look it up. They release at home where it’s safe. My autistic child is clever, he’s also funny, bright, stubborn aggressive, and we get hit and kicked.

The worst thing your DH can do is ignore this. You need to help your daughter.

One of the NVR strategies is to enlist community help. She's controlling to by saying that if you stand up to her, she'll tell school you hurt her.

Phone school. Talk to the Head (or similar) and tell them everything. Get them to talk to your DD on the phone and say they've heard she is not keeping herself and her family safe and they would like her to stop.

Use the people who are available to support you right now OP.

8. When she tries to hit you, hurt you, scream at you whatever, just stay calm, do not cry, just repeat I love you and I always will but I do not like your behaviour so I'm going to walk away from you. And walk away. If she flows you shut yourself in the kitchen or bathroom (if you are happy that she can't come to any harm and obviously keep checking) most the time you will know where she is because she will be outside smashing the door trying to get to you. Let her scream and kick the door, get it all out of her system, and then once she's over the worst go out and say "would you like short story before bed?". She may then get angry seeing you again and start again. If so let her. Do not engage with screaming just stay calm. The sooner she realises that the behaviour isn't getting her attention (negative or positive) the sooner it will stop.

^ This is NVR. However, with a child who you think may hurt themselves or cause serious damage, you have to stay in a safe room with them- but still not engage at all.

I still have my list of things my DD did that I used to get us seen the highlights are:

Had a temper tantrum because we couldn't load Google chrome on her notebook and that is what you use to open Google. She has IE on her computer which we explained can open Google on it.

Snatching toys away from the baby.

Lying down on floor having a temper tantrum banging & shouting because she made her home work look messy.

Doesn't understand boundaries people will say no I don't want to do that and will try to do it anyway.

Doesn't understand why someone shouted at her couldn't explain the other person's emotions, it was obvious why to the other children present.

Has no concept of personal space which is very noticeable in public.

Will obsessively stroke very close family members and can't seem to stop.

Hope that helps you.

Thank you so much for your non-judgemental advice everybody and i'm finding these strategies so helpful and I'm really glad other people are suggesting to see a GP as this was my thoughts (might be a bit difficult with this lockdown but i will be looking into it)

I think my DP also fears the fact that when she outlashes, she claims we hurt her and 'will tell', that he's worried "what if they take her away if she says that", we love her to pieces and i would never ever cause her harm. She has had a smack bottom in the past (not sure if that was a right way to deal with it but that didnt work anyway) so GP seems the way to go

I think my DP also fears the fact that when she outlashes, she claims we hurt her and 'will tell', that he's worried "what if they take her away if she says that", we love her to pieces and i would never ever cause her harm.

If his main concern is covering his own arse then I think you need to remind him that unless this behaviour is acknowledged and you ask for professional help, he is not safeguarding himself or you against those kind of accusations. Far better that the two of you engage professionals for help and can be supportive, rather than being called into school to speak to SW about accusations she might make. It's sad that's his concern and reason to not want to seek help for her, thank goodness she has you!

Definitely do not smack her op. You are trying to stop her being violent. What on earth is being violent to her teaching her? Take her to the gp.

You are allowed to restrain her. They would in school to stop her harming herself, staff or fellow pupils.
It's not ok for her to hit and kick you.
You must stop her harming you.
Is she harming her siblings?

I don't want to sound negative OP, but you are almost certainly nowhere near the threshold for CAMHS involvement (I work in the field). You really are better off going through the school for support.

I'm not saying don't go to the GP- you absolutely should- but I think school will be much quicker off the mark with support.

She has never hit her sister but she knows her sister has sensitive ears so will slam a door repeatedly next to her sister and laugh.whilst do it,
I feel like crying because she seemed to be behaving but she is now running up and down the stairs screaming for no reason

@reefedsail would the school take me seriously if she is fine in school?

Restraint isn't the same as smacking.

Restrain her to the floor if necessary. They would in school and your deluded if you think differently. Preferably take her to her room and shut the door on her.
Do not allow her to harm or hit you or herself.

It sounds like she has some sensory seeking behaviour as well - it could be that the hitting and running around makes her body feel regulated (in balance). An occupational therapist may be helpful here but I’d definitely start with a psychologist.

What you are experiencing is domestic abuse, where the violent perpetrator is your daughter.

You are NOT alone watch this.

It might be a cry for help but that doesn’t mean you need to shower her in love because that she would see as a weakness on yourself. You need professional help, it is not going to get better on its own, go to the GP, talk to young minds and if in danger, call the police, but remember, you have a small window of opportunity, in 3 years more she will be as strong and tall as you and able to properly hurt you. Act now

Would second “The Explosive Child”

Many tantrums/meltdowns are linked to anxiety. Is she feeling very anxious at the moment?

She loves to tickle but tickling is tortourous to me and DP (none of us like it) so we tell her to stop and she will do anything not to stop

Is she actually fine in school? Like I said, children mask at school. My autistic child behaves better at school because he thrives on the structure and routine but actually it wasn’t until I approached the teachers with my theory of autism that it got the ball rolling. Luckily they were incredibly supportive. I never took my child to the GP, I went by myself because I wanted to be able to talk without DS. The GP was great and because I had been to the school first it made it easy to get a referral. We were lucky.

I don't want to sound negative OP, but you are almost certainly nowhere near the threshold for CAMHS involvement (I work in the field)

Says a lot about the state of CAMHS doesn't it?

OP get some videos, she needs a referral for assessment. Tell your bloke he either gets on board or he can piss off. Fucks me off when parents won't acknowledge something's wrong. These are the ones who can't cope when the kid gets to the teens and bugger off anyway leaving usually the mother to deal with it.