My 9 year old daughter hits us, punches us, kicks us, screams at us, and i dont know what to do :(

[JuatWantAdvice506]

Hello, seeking some advice. I feel lost.
My 9 year old daughter is amazing at school, as far as we know she gets on with her work and plays well with her friends.
But at home, it's like a whole different child.

She can be amazing and lovely and so funny. But even before lockdown, she had moments of lashing out but since lockdown it's been everyday.
Me and dp have been punched, kicked in the knees, she pulls her fists up at us, she punches me in the head multiple times,
She will hold us down and swing her hands around our necks like a monkey. When we try and get her off us or move her hands away to stop her punching us, she claims we hurt her and that she'll tell school, when we don't.
I just dont know what to do :( i filmed her backlash tonight which resulted in her trying to snatch my phone and try and hide it. I just feel like a useless mum and i broke down crying as she was punching me in the head the other day.
They happen for no reason as far as I see. Afterwards, I sit her down and tell her i love her and ask why she has done this and she said she doesn't know. We've tried to find other solutions like drawing, writing, punching pillows, behaviour charts, but she just always resorts to being violent.
She ripped the behaviour chart off the wall, she's smashed about 3 tablets by throwing them in a temper.

I just dont understand. Her sister is 7 and doesnt behave this way. Me and dp hardly fight and if we did, we'd never be violent to each other. It's getting us both down.
Any tips? And thank you in advance!

I would tentatively advise you and your dp to get on the same page regarding discipline. Structure and clear rules.

There's so much about the response above that is spectacularly unhelpful and judgemental that I don't even know where to start.

OP - you need help and support, your daughter needs help and support. This is definitely not the behaviour of a happy functioning child and you need to speak to a professional to work out what is happening, and why, and how to help.

You may find some good advice on the SEN boards - I'm not suggesting SEN (although it should be investigated as a possibility) but the experiences, de-escalation and self regulation strategies that parents there have learned about may be helpful.

My (now adult) DD was exactly like this. She was later diagnosed with autism.

Ask for help. Film her. Don't minimise her behaviour because you don't won't get the help you all need if you do.

It took years of me not being believed before my DD made a suicide attempt in her early teens. Once in the system we were finally heard and she got help (I had to be very insistent), but it was horrendous for several years before we reached that point. You have my sympathy.

She plays on it when she wakes up in the morning and then she plays on it at about 6 for an hour,
In the day, she is usually in the garden or playing dolls with her sister, she goes on walks, helps me bake and cook tea, we do school work around the table,
We do have a movie night twice a week since schools have closed and watch BGT altogether,

I cant say what triggers them - it seems to be when she is told "no" or we've found for some reason they happen around 5pm everyday,
The day she is great!

I would suggest autism. Very hard to see in girls. Very common for them to completely behave at school. Look into it now...it is much harder to get help as they get older. It is really helpful for you, and for her, to know if it is the case. There's not much stigma now thank god.

apols @ShiveringCoyote not your response when i say 'the post above', several people posted in between sorry!

We tell her to go to her room and she point blank refuses and runs around the house slamming doors

This is where NVR comes in. You take her to her room, go in with her and stand sideways on to the door. You don't look at her or speak to her, just stand with her until the crisis is over. It keeps her safe and takes the 'reward' of controlling your reactions out of it.

I'd recommend the book. Here

OP look particularly at a variation of autism called oppositional defiance.

There is another form of autism called PDA. Look into this too.

How many hours sleep is she getting at night?

Is she getting the same amount of sleep every single night?

You mean pathological demand avoidance Fizzysours but that is not universally recognised as a separate condition. Some demand avoidance related to anxiety is relatively common in autism.

It is really common for kids who have some issues (eg autism) to manage to mask it at school and then it all comes out at home.

basically what is happening is that at school they are deperately holding it together, and then they can't hold it together any more when at home. Home is also safe, so they can be themsleves with al the messy emotions that go with that.
It does make it harder for school to believe you, but they should be familiar with that pattern.

What are the consequences for her behaviour? What have you actually set in place happens if she hurts you? Sitting her down and telling her afterwards that she hurt you isn’t a consequence. She needs to pack this in. If one of mine did that to me, the first time the they punched or hurt me it would have been made phenomenally clear that it was never to happen again,

I really disagree with this, in htis context, because if this is due to some other problem, then putting in strict consequences won't help.

My friend who has a son with autism says this is so frustrating when people think in terms of temper tantrum, because that is = misbehaviour. She says it is more helpful to think in terms of panic attack, or being overwhelmed, and find strategies to get her out of it.

But the poster is right in that you need to be very clear that this is not right. For example, coming up to you and swining like a monkey. If she just does that becuase she wants to, she isn't understanding that it hurts. Put a clear boundary in place. No monkey swinging at all, but in order to do that, you may need to unpick why she likes/needs it and also why she is not understanding that it HURTS.

How do i take her to her room when she's refusing without hurting her though? I'm not sure of any techniques so i will definitely have to look into it more!

I have suggested autism or ADHD to DP but he thinks i'm being silly because how can she have those when she is amazing and one of the top of her class in schools. She takes part in after school activities and competitions the schools put on her, so the school always talk well of her, so he is seeing it narrow-mindedly i think!
He also moaned that I filmed her tonight because he doesnt want anyone to see. I think he is in massive denial.

I worry also that she claims we hurt her when we dont! Far from it!! It really hurts.

I know that asd gets thrown about a lot, but this sounds very much like I was and my dd when puberty started (we both have asd).
ASD shows differently in girls than boys. We mask better and are often "great" at school (not really just able to hide it) yet meltdowns at home (where its safe). Add to that puberty (not fun for anyone) which is particularly hard for those with ASD and all the changes that covid19 has brought and I can very easily see how things could easily get to where you are.

Op do you ever punish her? She attacks and you tell her you love her etc. Is there any repercussions for her behaviour?

Because if not she could be doing it because she can.

My Violent child Desparate Parents

There was a tv programme about violent children featuring Laverne Antrobus. It gave great advice on how to put in boundaries, measures, strategies to cope with violent children. Made you contact Laverne to see if she can give you pointers and ideas.

Some of the transformations in the children were amazing.

It sounds like you need to be singing of the same hymn sheet. It sounds like rtheres no consequences if dh immediately retunes comfiscated goods.

OP you say the outbursts happen often around 5pm - what happens at 5pm during your daily routine? Is she told to stop what she is doing and come eat dinner? Some children (especially with autism - and I am NOT suggesting it’s autism, only a professional can do that) have difficulties with transitions - moving from one activity to another. The requirement to suddenly change focus - especially if they are engrossed in what they are doing - can trigger an outburst or meltdown.

What happens at 5pm to trigger them? If they always get triggered by saying no - have you tried giving her a plan instead? For example if she wants chocolate - say can have it on specific days of the week. Try a daily schedule for different activities including dinner. It might help & avoid you needing to say no more often.

I agree with @Jumble567

Children go through this stage usually much younger. I don't remember it with my girls, they learned the first time they hit out. My son required more perseverance, about 2 weeks worth of firm consequences.

The fact that it is getting worse with age is indicative of there being a behavioural aspect to it. They need to know that there is a line that they cannot cross, ever.

It's the same process all the time during the meltdown.
She'll be laughing her head off whilst slapping us, swinging on us, tickling us, punching us,
Then one of us will pull her off us,
She starts crying saying "you hurt me". She cries for about 1 minute. Then starts laughing and punching and kicking again. And that is repeated for about an hour and a half. But during that she will be slamming doors, doing cartwheels around the house.

Outside of the outlashes, another thing she does it 'act like a baby'. Not all the time, but sometimes she will suck her thumb and talk in a baby voice and will say "me want bottle" (and this is not her playing a game, this is her being serious)

Make an urgent appointment with your GP and ask for a referral to a child psychologist. Though I would not wait for this to come though (no idea of wait times...). Can you arrange counselling for her in the meantime? Make sure it is a BACP accredited counsellor with relevant experience in counselling children.

All of this.

And start a diary.

Keep it private so she doesn't see it and can't destroy it if she is cross.

Diarise what she has eaten, how much she has slept, how much screen time she has had and note the time, length and type of anger outbursts she has.

This is a great way for you not only to feel like you have some control of the situation, but also to have a clear diary for the GP / counsellor when you are able to see them.

Do not make her part of the diary keeping process because she may destroy it in anger or find it upsetting you are keeping tabs on her but it's such an important thing to do.

I really feel for you, it must be so stressful. You and your husband may also need some counselling as a couple at some point to help you be a united front on this. Having different styles of punishment / reward / consequences can tear couples apart.

1. Possible autism? See GP for a first step
2. Tantrums at same time of the day - low blood sugar? Regular snacks/meals might be worth trying
3. DP buying a new tablet when old one is broken by her - consequences naturally flowing are that she then doesn't have a tablet. There can't be many households where a replacement tablet would even be a possibility. You and DP need to show a unite d front whether it's autism or something else.

If it is autism, routine, consistency and plenty of quiet time are really important.

No worries @missfliss. I was just about to write a long post about my years working with children with immature emotional response. I would not like to offer a guess at the OPs dd possible diagnosis.

Routine, structure and clear rules are your best friend . Start every day in the same way with a clear uncomplicated plan laid out. Structure in movement breaks regularly. If you have a two hour school session maybe every fifteen minutes get off the chair hold the back and stretch. Wiggle your fingers and toes for 3 mins. Then back to work. If the meltdowns are happening around 5pm make sure she snacks around 4:45.
..

Definitely not normal. My niece has autism and has the odd tantrum. Shrs 14 but is medicated as she was really difficult when younger. My besties son is 12 with autism, never had a tantrum in his life he couldn't deal with the noise. They are all different, it's a big spectrum.

This sounds a lot like my DD she's autistic we haven't had any major outbursts since we got her diagnosis I think cause we are attuned to her more and also work with her rather than thinking she's naughty.

We have autism in the family so I know the signs but it was only after some of these outbursts that I really started to consider autism your DD is also at the age that their social interactions get more complex. So they find it harder to mask their difficulties.
Our DD has been struggling with the lack of routine because everything is a bit the same during lockdown.

Of course you DD could not be autistic but it's worth exploring.