My 9 year old daughter hits us, punches us, kicks us, screams at us, and i dont know what to do :(

[JuatWantAdvice506]

Hello, seeking some advice. I feel lost.
My 9 year old daughter is amazing at school, as far as we know she gets on with her work and plays well with her friends.
But at home, it's like a whole different child.

She can be amazing and lovely and so funny. But even before lockdown, she had moments of lashing out but since lockdown it's been everyday.
Me and dp have been punched, kicked in the knees, she pulls her fists up at us, she punches me in the head multiple times,
She will hold us down and swing her hands around our necks like a monkey. When we try and get her off us or move her hands away to stop her punching us, she claims we hurt her and that she'll tell school, when we don't.
I just dont know what to do :( i filmed her backlash tonight which resulted in her trying to snatch my phone and try and hide it. I just feel like a useless mum and i broke down crying as she was punching me in the head the other day.
They happen for no reason as far as I see. Afterwards, I sit her down and tell her i love her and ask why she has done this and she said she doesn't know. We've tried to find other solutions like drawing, writing, punching pillows, behaviour charts, but she just always resorts to being violent.
She ripped the behaviour chart off the wall, she's smashed about 3 tablets by throwing them in a temper.

I just dont understand. Her sister is 7 and doesnt behave this way. Me and dp hardly fight and if we did, we'd never be violent to each other. It's getting us both down.
Any tips? And thank you in advance!

I think your response is a little too adult - say whatever you like is quite dismissive and not stamping your authority.

Maybe something like:

"We love you very much but we do not lie in this family, it's not nice and it's wrong to lie. We want to enjoy our time with you and DD2 so let's do something nice together instead of planning to tell lies to people. Now, what shall we make for dinner?"

This sounds like my son and he is in the process of being assessed for ADHD.
He isn’t particularly violent but is extremely emotional and has enormous outbursts which are completely disproportionate to what has happened. He can be aggressive as well but that side of it seems to be mostly under control - let’s hope it stays that way. He’s a year younger than your DD

I noticed up thread you said she likes to talk in a baby voice - have you ever tried babying her? Not for humiliation, for comfort. DD likes to be babyish sometimes and I’ll say “right, I’ll baby you for two minutes” or whatever, then I cradle her, talk like I would to a baby, tell her about when she was a baby...I know it sounds weird but she just purrs, she loves it! And then I’m quite firm about “ok, baby time over, let’s go and do (big girl thing a baby couldn’t do).” It’s like it fills a hole for a while and let’s her know she’s still my baby, and sets her up to behave more grown up the rest of the time because she’s not seeking that reassurance.

Non-violent Resistance. It's for parents of very challenging children and young people. Look up Haim Omer on youtube. He describes it very well.

I would just ignore threats yes - she is goading you into an argument which you don’t need to have.
You know you have done nothing wrong so just ignore her.

Agree @Michaelbaubles

That seems like “love bombing” which can be really helpful with children like this. There is obviously a need there - why not fulfil it.

Yes ignore the threats. She’s trying to pull you in to another dramatic tantrum session. My DS does this and it’s usually a sign that he wants some attention from me, but rewarding the unwanted behaviour is not helpful.

It sounds like she needs some consequences for her actions, not treating.
Both parents need to be in agreement ito discipline and I don't mean punishment, the two are different.
It sounds like she's allowed to rule the nest, tbh.
Record her and tell her it's going to the gp and a psychologist and I bet it stops.
Then, both of you enrol on some parenting classes whilst waiting for the psychologist.
Without clear boundaries and a wimp of a dad, she will play you off against each other, and enjoy it.
My niece was similar, both parents together now, and much better behaved. My niece never did it at school either.

Only on MN does violent/nasty = autism

DD doesn't have any other 'symptoms' of ASD, presumably, apart from spite and temper, so any professional you face may have a severe case of side eye.

OP, you need parenting help - DD's behaviour isn't your fault but it is your responsibility. Lots of anti-violence/tantrum techniques work on NT DC, so talk to the GP. Get on with it before she grows any more.

She sounds like me and my daughters. We all have adhd.

Please print out this entire thread, show it to the doctor and refuse to leave without a referral. Don't state you want her assessed for adhd, if you don't state one thing then they will look into everything and anything.

I probably wouldnt respond. There are a couple of stock phrases that help me.
First, 'you dont have to join every arguament to which you are invited' and the other being 'an escalated adult cant de-escalate a child'

It is possible to have both consequences and support though. It does not need to be one of the other.
She can lose something for her behaviour but then (when she is calm) you can discuss why and make a plan for how she could behave when she feels that way again. With only consequences and no strategies she will become stuck in a cycle of bad behaviour and punishment. She needs to be shown how to improve.

Please print out this entire thread, show it to the doctor and refuse to leave without a referral

Seriously? You think because some randoms said it on mumsnet the doctor will act?

This little girl isn’t just “holding it together at school” the op says she’s amazing, does her work and plays with her friends.

At home she has no consequences to her actions. No repercussions. She can do as she pleases when she pleases, and not do as she doesn’t please, when she doesn’t please.

That’s More likely lack of any firm boundaries or consequences all her life.

Yes i will ignore future threats; i also like the response of "we dont lie in this house",

I never thought about going along with the babyvoice, usually i jusy laught and tell her not to be 'silly' and when i see her sucking her thumb, i tell her to stop

The one positive to take from her behaviour is that she obviously feels safe enough at home to have this release! More children than you realise will be this way. It’s not something openly discussed because after a certain age it feels a little shameful.

Thumb sucking is self soothing - I would not stop that for now - she needs to be able to do that to calm down

So sorry OP - I would suspect Autism too - High Functioning - you need a GP visit and referral to CAMHS - I have a son with HFA - anxiety and depression have been major problems for him and he has lashed out at me so many times - not physically thankfully - he was a CAMHS inpatient at 13 - wishing you all the very best 🌼

I'll third the other posters who've said that her not doing it at school isn't necessarily a sign that she can control it. You only have to do 5-10 mins of reading around autism in girls to find they are well known for this behaviour.

As everyone had said OP follow the techniques recommended and make a list, also be firm with school or anyone else and don't be fobbed off.

We paid for a private diagnosis as the waiting on CAHMs was so long we'd got to over a year.

Oh and our DD is great in school but actually when I raised it with them and the teachers started to observe her they noticed little quirks that if someone joked in class she'd watch and she if the class laughed then laugh herself. She also talks at you not with you, so it can kind of be like a conversation but not the ping pong that you have normally.

Another thing to remember is not all autistic children have high IQs my DD is on the low end of 'normal' IQ.

As I said before she could not be autistic but there's no harm in considering if she is.

She has a best friend in school, she does argue with them but that's normal,
She used to come home crying last year saying she has no friends but her and this other girl used to argue about being 'top girl',

The only thing that stands out to me in terms of school is a parents evening when she was 6 in which the teacher told me she always wants to hold hand with the teacher and walk with the teacher at playtime,
And DD always used to come home when she was 6 saying she would sit on her own as she didnt want to run like the others but then she met her 'best friend' and the 2 of them play together all the time. Her male cousin is also in her class but those 2 clash

Have a read of a to z of therapeutic parenting. Aimed mainly at parents of adopted children, but still useful whatever the child. Gives things to do in the moment, so to speak, and also afterwards.

No a doctor will
Not take this seriously. My boy behaved exactly like this- I was told he’s just a naughty boy. Other times I took he gets referred to cahms for counselling. He didn’t want to go to counselling and I couldn’t get him there as he’d would have just run off. He was also an angel at school.

Firstly don’t compare her to her sister- her sisters 7 and you have no idea how she may behave in the future.

Any violence you have to come down on like a ton of bricks.
You explain the violence will not be tolerated in this house . You repeat this every time she is violent is a controlled stern manner. When she is violent you either clear the room and leave her to it- so she can’t harm anyone and so she doesn’t get the attention that she’s desiring. Alternatively you restrain her- grab hold of her arms and tell her no . It sounds awful but this is a way if defending yourself.

You have to make sure she’s getting the attention she needs. Just you and her time without her sister. You need to have time outside of the outbursts, perhaps a week after to talk in more detail about what’s happened and why. Talk about wider issues ie what happens when you are violent as an adult. What will happen if she’s violent when she’s 13 for example- ie the police could be called.

When she is doing good reassure her- almost like you would a toddler - “im so proud that when this happened you came and talked to me and you weren’t violent”

Do not react to the outbursts, do not get upset, sometimes just walk away and leave her to it. I’ve found the more attention I gave him when he was having an outburst the worse he was- I’d wind him up. Recognise when she’s about to have an outburst if you can so you can intercept it. Exercise is your friend here- running, cycling, even a punch bag - I know that sound counter productive but If she’s angry she can take it out on the bag.

You need to accept that this won’t go away overnight it’s taken 2 years for my son to improve - similar age - remember hormones could be starting to pop.

It’s not your fault. My son is very sensitive and I believe this is why he gets angry as he perhaps has too many emotions and just can’t cope. Things will get better and you will be very proud of her .

I’d also add the fact she doesn’t do it at school means she can control it.

This is often said on Mumsnet and is frankly bollocks!
a lot of children with SN, especially ASD or ADHD etc. they can hold a lot of what they feel in at school. But then explode when they get home.
My DD did the opposite - she exploded where she was most stressed and that was mainly at school. Who didn't believe me when I said I never saw the behaviour they struggled with.

Behaviour is a form of communication
That is a key thing to realise. If she is lashing out she is angry and probably afraid.
Her facial expressions may not "match" her emotions. My DD would become very upset if you asked her what she was feeling - as she couldn't describe it - although she had an excellent vocabulary.
ASD children I have known have often laughed when they were scared. Lots of people do laugh when frightened.

Some of the recommendations here might work with NT (not SN) Children, but won't work for your DD.

Autism and anxiety are very closely linked indeed - I know that as a professional and because my DD (and very likely her older DB) have autism and it is DD who's anxiousness has been hard to manage at times (ear defenders were life changing for her though).

But until you ask for further investigation it's all rather speculative and it seems like you need a coherent and consistent approach which includes your DP who, at the very least, should be backing you up.