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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My 9 year old daughter hits us, punches us, kicks us, screams at us, and i dont know what to do :(

389 replies

JuatWantAdvice506 · 24/04/2020 19:34

Hello, seeking some advice. I feel lost.
My 9 year old daughter is amazing at school, as far as we know she gets on with her work and plays well with her friends.
But at home, it's like a whole different child.

She can be amazing and lovely and so funny. But even before lockdown, she had moments of lashing out but since lockdown it's been everyday.
Me and dp have been punched, kicked in the knees, she pulls her fists up at us, she punches me in the head multiple times,
She will hold us down and swing her hands around our necks like a monkey. When we try and get her off us or move her hands away to stop her punching us, she claims we hurt her and that she'll tell school, when we don't.
I just dont know what to do :( i filmed her backlash tonight which resulted in her trying to snatch my phone and try and hide it. I just feel like a useless mum and i broke down crying as she was punching me in the head the other day.
They happen for no reason as far as I see. Afterwards, I sit her down and tell her i love her and ask why she has done this and she said she doesn't know. We've tried to find other solutions like drawing, writing, punching pillows, behaviour charts, but she just always resorts to being violent.
She ripped the behaviour chart off the wall, she's smashed about 3 tablets by throwing them in a temper.

I just dont understand. Her sister is 7 and doesnt behave this way. Me and dp hardly fight and if we did, we'd never be violent to each other. It's getting us both down.
Any tips? And thank you in advance!

OP posts:
differentnameforthis · 26/04/2020 07:16

@nicky7654 Children need disapline not rewards for bad behaveour!!! Suppose your would prefer her fed tablets instead lol be and labelled!!

First of all it's diagnosed using "labelled" is highly offensive.
Secondly, there are no meds for autism. Yes, there are some for related behaviours: anxiety, sleep disorders, etc, but it is bloody hard getting a dr to agree to medicate for those in a child.

differentnameforthis · 26/04/2020 07:51

@Zaphodsotherhead but does your DH show any signs of ASD? Some of the things he does sound a little on the extreme side of parenting (locking himself in the bathroom to avoid his DD's behaviour).

Good pick up... my dd triggers my dh. I often have to send him out the room/house (to the shed) as when she melts down, he will too and I cannot deal with both of them

@Closetbeanmuncher I have autistic DC Then you will know that no 2 autistic people are the same. They all have different needs and challenges. You would think you'd know not to generalise.

Just my take on a few more things posted…

we dont lie in this house", Be careful... this could be her perspective, and not a 'lie' as such, and in turn it could turn into you doubting her perspective . My dd once told me a man hit her when we were in a shop. I was right with her and he tapped her lightly on the shoulder. But to her, unwanted and unannounced touch gets translated into pain by her nervous system. Not even her dad & sister can hug her without asking, and sometimes neither can I. To her it felt like he hit her, so she wasn’t lying to me.

@reefedsail You take her to her room, go in with her and stand sideways on to the door. You don't look at her or speak to her, just stand with her until the crisis is over. It keeps her safe and takes the 'reward' of controlling your reactions out of it.

Please DO NOT do this. This will cause her room to become a battle ground and she WILL NOT feel safe in there. Her room needs to be her safe space, if she starts to see it as a battleground, she will resist ever being in there, even for sleep, therefore creating another issue.
Plus, I don't know how your daughter is with this, but ignoring my asd dd when she is like this is fuel on the fire. Causes her to think we don't care, that she isn't worth listening to! Makes her feel worthless. I sit with her, and offer her hugs, but say and do little else. I may say, I understand or I’m sorry this is hard for you or I’m here for you when you need me. If it is clear that she doesn't want me in the same room, I will let her know where I am going to be if she needs me. Evetually she will come to me and lie in my lap to be cradled like a baby and just sob.

@JuatWantAdvice506 I have suggested autism or ADHD to DP but he thinks i'm being silly because how can she have those when she is amazing and one of the top of her class in schools.

  • Google Tony Attwood and autism in girls. It is VERY different to how boys present.
  • Regressing to baby talk/behaviour is also common for asd girls. My dd "pretended" to be a cat, she would walk on all fours, purr and "paw" at our legs, insist on eating and drinking from bowls on the floor (we didn't let her, but she sneak a bowl into her room for water, and put it on her floor) and slurp from it. This went on for days! I was actually asked about role play as part of her assessment.
  • My dd doesn't hit anyone but herself, and I have it on record with school/dr/OT that she self harms, because I would hate for them to think we hit her, due to her perception of events.

When she tries to hit you, hurt you, scream at you whatever ... just repeat I love you and I always will but I do not like your behaviour.

Again, DO NOT tell her you do not like her behaviour. She will not hear you correctly. She may hear you saying "I do not like you" because that may be her perception, and asd children often have a very different perception to NT people I have found. Plus I find that dd is very defensive about her behaviour and for me to say "I don't like your behaviour" WILL be taken by her that I do not like her.

If you are on facebook, look up the autism discussion page.

After8itsgrownuptime · 26/04/2020 08:01

We have the same problem with our son. We went to a child psychologist and were told it’s learned behaviour. If we told him no or tried to make him do something he didn’t want to do, he would explode and scream, shout, punch, kick etc but at school was really well behaved. The key was consistent parenting and enforcing boundaries - he was being good at school as he had clear boundaries and behaviour expectations - children with less boundaries can fund it over whelming and lash out . It was hard work and no had to mean no - so now if he does something and we take iPad time away for an hour or 2, we have to mean it. Initially it was very difficult and tiring and occasionally he slips back when (like now) boundaries are relaxed but it had made a huge difference. The problem actually wasn’t him but us as parents not being on the same page

After8itsgrownuptime · 26/04/2020 08:08

@JuatWantAdvice506 just posted above but also wanted to say , our sons outburst were so bad we were convinced he had an underlying issue too. His whole behaviour dictated what the rest of the family did and it was having a detrimental effect on us all. If you have the money, please find a child psychologist privately and if not, please do for a referral. The psychologist actually worked mostly with my husband and I and made my husband see how much his behaviour was exasperating the problem - good luck ash PM me if you need too

mathanxiety · 26/04/2020 08:54

Wrt roleplay - many NT children pretend to be animals, and this roleplay can go on for months. The play can even feature the same scenarios acted out many times a day and it's still not an issue (eg. you find a lost puppy while picking blackberries in the woods and adopt him). There's not necessarily an issue there and no harm in playing along, giving a bowl of cereal on the floor, water to lap, scritches behind the ear, ball to fetch, cushion to curl up on, etc. if your child wants to play cat/puppy.

A lot depends on how flexible the child is about ending the game or participating in other activities like a family meal, how rigid the child's expectations are about you not going out of character, and how consistently inflexibility and rigidity are features of this sort of play (all children like to keep playing something that has really caught their imagination and like co-operation from the adult).

Viviennemary · 26/04/2020 09:01

I think you need professional help to deal with this. But stop sitting her down and telling her you love her. It's not working. I wonder why she is like this. She is very very angry.

reefedsail · 26/04/2020 09:52

This will cause her room to become a battle ground

If low-arousal de-escalation feels like a battleground, you haven't cracked low-arousal. The entire point of NVR is that you take the battle out of it.

differentnameforthis · 26/04/2020 10:15

@reefedsail Nicely quoted without context...

You supported taking her (which would be forceful removal at the point where the dd is being violent) and putting her in her room for her to calm down, and stand by the door (preventing her from leaving) which I said could turn her bedroom into a battle ground.

I don't need to "crack" anything, I don't have these issues with my dd, but I was just pointing out why I disagree with using a bedroom - a child's safe space - as a forced cool down space, and how it could be counter productive.

differentnameforthis · 26/04/2020 10:19

The entire point of NVR is that you take the battle out of it.

Can you not that preventing her from leaving a room WOULD create a battle though?

reefedsail · 26/04/2020 10:20

Takes two to battle?

Closetbeanmuncher · 26/04/2020 11:33

@differentnameforthis

Of course I'm aware of this, but I'm also aware that from the OPs description here daughter has not be given boundaries or concequences for behaviour which is completely unacceptable.

If the daughter truly felt she had been hurt when mum and dad got her off she wouldn't immediately resume the laughing punching and kicking....come on now.

The boundaries and concequence aspect need to be fixed way before autism is even considered a possibility, or do you disagree?

Jo frost made a multimillion pound career out of this sort of behaviour in children and none of them had autism. That should tell you something!

copycopypaste · 26/04/2020 11:44

Sounds very similar to my dd. She's adopted and has been diagnosed with adhd and attachment disorder.

I won't go into details, but my friends ds (not adopted) suffers from attachment disorder and has very similar behavioural issues, it was as a result of being separated from his mum for two weeks at a few months old. She was in hospital for those two weeks.

Holidaywindowshopperaddict · 26/04/2020 14:20

The child is completely confused by your different parenting styles.
You try and put in boundaries and consequences and your husband gives her what she wants.
It's not bloody autism as it would continue outside the home too.
Write up a rule and consequence list and stick to it.
Learn how to restrain her properly and don't engage with the behaviour. You speak when there has been calm period of time between the incident.
Consistency is key.
When it gets stressful it's easier to give up.

copycopypaste · 26/04/2020 14:40

If you speak to family services there are parenting courses on how to restrain young children without hurting them

notacooldad · 26/04/2020 15:22

Holidaywindowshopperaddict
I agree with you and said about different parenting styles being the problem but everyone else is talking about a referral to get a diagnosis. As you have said she behaves away from the home.
The OP and her partner would be better to look at their parenting skills and once restriction are lifted see if they can get on a parenting course such as Strengthening Families ( although the child has to 10 for that particular one)

Rosebel · 26/04/2020 15:44

I wouldn't shut yourself away from your daughter when she lashes out. Loosing control is scary for children, it will be even more scary if you just leave her to it. By all means get your youngest somewhere safe but you or dad need to stay with her. Either restrain as I said and just say I love you I'm here for you or if you can't restrain her just stay in the room but don't let her hit you.
When my daughter calms down she starts crying and wants a cuddle. We always do this and remind her again that we still love her.

corythatwas · 26/04/2020 16:31

maybe she is just doing what she is getting away with

How many 9yos actually want to hurt the people they depend on and smash up their own precious possessions? How many 9yos would even think of trying that out if they thought no one would stop them?

Autism has been mentioned and that is a possibility. There are other possibilities too. I have had 2 children with similar behaviour patterns in my family: in one case it was a question of adoption trauma, in the other of severe and probably inherited anxiety coupled with PTSD.

In both cases, there are happy endings, in that both children grew up into lovely and self-controlled adults with no issues around violence at all. It has to be said though that the child with anxiety did need therapy and is still as a young adult on medication. CAHMS recognised that she had a chronic mental health condition and that she will probably always have to manage her life around it.

The first child was my sibling, the second my daughter. Both had to be gently restrained at the time because they had siblings who had to be protected and because we felt as parents that it would be very bad for them too if they seriously hurt a parent (besides, parents are people...)

Both had parents with very firm boundaries who expected and usually got obedience. My db was the sweetest little boy, beautiful manners, very loving and considerate- and then he had his bad days.

Dd again was the most affectionate child you could meet, and we were probably that little bit stricter than some of her friends' parents, but also, I think, more consistent.

What I used to do was to hold dd from behind while repeating gently and calmly No, I am not going to let you hurt anyone, No, I can't let you hurt anyone. She needed to feel that her house was one where no one must be hurt, and that I both had the will and the power to ensure that.

Behaviour charts never worked because they just piled on more anxiety. Punishment afterwards never helped either and I didn't feel it was fair, any more than it would have been fair to punish someone with a high fever for lashing out in a delirium. Many years later she told me that during these meltdowns she felt like she couldn't recognise us, that I was just some monster that she had to defend herself against.

She always behaved perfectly at school: that was also part of the anxiety. In fact, she put up with some horrendous treatment there because she was so anxious. It all came out at home.

It's not bloody autism as it would continue outside the home too.

Do you know many autistic children? They often exhaust themselves masking while outside the home and then lose it when they get back, exhausted.

With children suffering from anxiety this also applies.

Of course we can't know for sure if the OP's dd has an underlying problem or if this is learnt behaviour. But from my experience there is absolutely nothing that rules out an underlying problem, certainly how she behaves at school has nothing to do with it.

Haffiana · 26/04/2020 17:52

forgive me, but does your DH show any signs of ASD? Some of the things he does sound a little on the extreme side of parenting (locking himself in the bathroom to avoid his DD's behaviour).

This.

It is also indicated by an OP who is afraid to react to her child's behaviour in the way her instincts tell her to react (even if only to take the child to a GP), because she has somehow come to worry that she may harm/damage her child or would be believed to be harming her child. My guess is that this fear and attitude is coming from her DH who cannot cope with the situation other than to deny or blame or act to make it go away in the short term, and this has made OP completely doubt herself.

OP, you really need to step up, because your DH cannot.

MrsPerks · 26/04/2020 18:10

Flowers Unless you have a child who presents this level of challenge it is very difficult to fully appreciate the situation. Would echo the advice to consider seeing a Child Psychologist if you can afford to.

Page3 · 26/04/2020 18:27

Children with additional needs can quite often hold it together in school and then it all falls apart at home. Doctors are well aware of this. I would absolutely push for an assessment, sooner rather than later.

My friends dd7 is the complete opposite could still be the same thing?

chickenyhead · 26/04/2020 20:59

My daughter (14) and I were told last year that we were on the spectrum. I have since read up on it extensively 0as my daughter did not wish to be officially labelled. Thinking back on it there were lots of signs, but we had firm discipline at home so behaviour was not an issue. Social and sensory situations are.

These things rarely present at that age without there also being a behaviour aspect to it. It is very difficult for a child to cope with being unchallenged and in charge, tempting as it can be to give in. Consistency is all important IMHO.

Voice0fReason · 26/04/2020 21:04

It's not bloody autism as it would continue outside the home too.
How many autistic children do you know? It really doesn't work like that at all, especially in girls.

My friends dd7 is the complete opposite could still be the same thing?
Yes. The child could feel safe and well supported at home but can't cope with the outside world or in particular, school, where their needs are not recognised and supported.

As for Super Nanny Jo Frost - you do realise that it's a TV show. Perfectly edited to entertain and demonstrate outstanding results. She does do some good stuff but don't confuse her show with real life.

JudyCoolibar · 26/04/2020 22:07

It's not bloody autism as it would continue outside the home too.

@Holidaywindowshopperaddict, with that one sentence you reveal that you know nothing about autism. Masking in different environments is an extremely common feature of autism.

Lina87 · 26/04/2020 22:15

Strange, I was like this from the ages of 10-15 to my mother. My brother and I used to fight a lot in a nasty way. I do suffer with lots of anxiety and depression now and one abusive relationship. Defiantly get her to speak to a professional she may have a lot of bottled up emotions she cant express.

CaptainBlunderpants · 26/04/2020 22:28

It's not bloody autism as it would continue outside the home too

You couldn’t be more wrong.