Ex has reported me to social services

[Peanutbuttermouth]

Just after some advice as I don't have any experience of this.
My ex is abusive. I did the freedom programme and was slowly trying to put boundaries in around him seeing our kids (contact not in my house etc). He was outraged at these new boundaries.

Our dc are 8 and 6. They're ace. He very rarely sees them. When he does come round he calls me a prostitute etc in front of them.

During lockdown I have been putting a movie on for them in the evening and going for a 20 min run. I was running the other evening and bumped into my ex. So of course he then knew I was leaving our children in the house and has emailed social services copying me in. I've just called them and asked what will happen and they said someone will be in touch to investigate the claim. It is true that I left them to go for a run and I don't plan on denying it.

Any advice or experience would be really appreciated.

For example my kids rarely ever wake up at night. That doesn't mean it's fine for me to leave from 11-5am and go out clubbing.

Atm there are a lot of people watching each other’s routines due to lockdown.
There are also a lot of people with time on their hands.
It puts the kids at risk if the mother is leaving them alone for an extended period at the same time every day .

@onlyconnect Your reply makes me think of some dog owners
They swear to god that their dogs are friendly and have never bitten anyone then lo and behold they do! (As happened to DH where the owner said her dog had never done that before.)

In other words, they are unpredictable.

Children are impulsive and immature. They don't have the same sense of judgement as adults.

If you think they do, and you can predict their behaviour for every minute of every day, you are mistaken.

It only takes one tiny mistake by the child to turn into a tragedy.

I’m a pretty chilled out parent but 8 and 6 is too young to be left when you’re away from the house. If you were in the garden or chatting out the front to a neighbour fair enough, but away, away away? No. Imagine how you’d feel if you approached your front door after you’d been for a run and you could hear one or both of them crying? Imagine the panic you would feel wondering what had happened, and the guilt you’d feel because you’d left them alone? You might get in and find out one had pinched the other’s toy, but then you might get in and find blood, or burns, or something else unthinkably awful that you would then have to explain away to the police? Imagine how torn apart you’d feel by guilt knowing that one of your babies hurt themselves because you weren’t there to watch them because you just had to go out for a run? How would you ever forgive yourself for that? No Op, you’re wrong on this one, and if you don’t realise it it’s either because you haven’t got an imagination that stretches further than your own gratification or you’re just irresponsible.

I didn’t let my DS go out alone at 8 either, and 6 is really very little. Anything could happen to them, and I mean anything, and they are little children.

There’s something about the slightly shifty tone of the OP and what she says that leads me to believe this isn’t the truth or full extent of it so maybe it would be better if SS do get in touch.

OP your boundaries are all messed up. You had a shit childhood and your DCs’ father is an abusive twat, I get that, my DS’s father is too, and yes, I am a single parent with no help, but you need to start thinking of your kids. Going out for a run might save your sanity but it is a selfish reason leave your DC whichever way you flip it, and I’m afraid being a single parent isn’t mitigation for that. You don’t get sanity breaks when you’re a single parent with no help. It sucks sometimes but them’s the breaks.

@Ulver I didn't appreciate the OP wanted her neighbour to babysit now; I thought the idea was her kids would play in their front garden and the neighbour would sit in her garden and watch them.

Though how anyone organises this day after day when the neighbour might be busy, I don't know.

OP - you should really ignore any posters who are on the extreme ends of this debate. So the ones telling you they wouldn't leave their 14 year old at home or let their 11 year old walk to school or whatever clearly aren't even vaguely in the same parenting place as you.

It sounds like you've agreed that perhaps leaving the six year old in particular isn't a great idea. Good for you. I'd still maintain it's something you'd be best positioned to assess but it certainly seems that 99% of people wouldn't do it which is indicative of something.

I'm with @Sophism1 though that some of the comments on here are actually not helpful to the DC involved. I was chatting to a woman a few months ago and it came out that she drives her 16 year old to school every day. The walk from their house to his school can't be more than 10 minutes (the drive probably takes at least 20 due to a combination of traffic and the fact that you can't take the direct route that's possible on foot. Apparently it's because she's nervous about some of the other boys he might see on the street who aren't very nice and might bully him. It is 100% unclear to me how she thinks her son is going to cope when he's older. Or what she thinks happens on the playground.

Parents who wrap their children in cottonwool and discourage independence are not doing those children any favours. They need to learn to be confident, independent and as a pp has said, they need some basic street smarts.

When visiting friends recently, I let their oldest DD, aged 13 take DD, aged 4 to go round the corner to her friends house and fetch something. When they got back, DD had fallen over and skinned her knees. She was upset. The friend's daughter felt bad. But it felt to me like an important learning experience for both of them - for DD that when things happened there are other people who can help her and for my friend's DD that she's capable of being in charge. No harm done.

Holy crap

You left a 6 and an 8 yr old home. Alone?!?!?

I have 2 kids that age. Although the eldest is incredibly responsible. I don't even let her out of my site on the street!

Oh. My hearts fluttering just thinking about it.

@SonEtLumiere

It's not a case of being trusted. They are too young to handle an emergency.

@Sonetlumiere No one doubts your wisdom on how to raise children BUT the guidance you give here would be helpful for older children, not one of 6.

What you describe is sensible but it has to be age appropriate.

You seem to miss the point that accidents occur which are by their very nature unpredictable.

Most kids could be left [not saying it's right] and 99% of the time, all would be fine.
But it's the 1% that is the problem.

No one can guarantee there will not be some kind of accident or unpredictable behaviour.

I can only assume anyone who can't see this lacks imagination, has never had any kind of near-miss or 'thank God' moment in their lives, or believes that all human behaviour is predictable.

I'm also a bit insulted that you accuse English speakers of being fussy parents- bit racist eh?

Oh I keep meaning to ignore this thread because I've received the message loud and clear but there are things that I REALLY disagree with.

My 8 year old had to phone an ambulance for me once. She didn't panic, she was calm and knew exactly what to do. My 6 year old held my hand and reassured me and told me what his sister was doing. Actually they were 6 and just turned 5 when this happened. It is one of the proudest moments of their lives. They love to tell the story of the day they saved mummy. They haven't been traumatised by the emergency situation, they rose to it and dealt with it perfectly. They are just normal kids but I maintain the belief that if given responsibility kids will rise to it.

I think that getting "heart flutters" over all of this is a symptom of the over anxious parenting that happens in middle class UK. It is also a cultural thing - kids in Switzerland and Finland and Japan walk to school from age 5/6, kids in developing countries are babysitting and helping their parents in the market at similar ages. Ironically my ex grew up in a different country where he was out all day every day with his siblings from age 4, knew how to safely handle a machete from age 6, and has often mocked the British way of parenting. I became a more relaxed parent by learning from him. He did this for revenge - not concern.

Having said all that, I accept the points about people getting to know my lockdown routine, kids possibly opening the door because they don't want mummy to miss a delivery, it not being fair to the older one to feel responsible for the younger one, and a few other things over the thread that have made sense to me. So you will all be happy to know that I will skip my run (and yes, it really is 20 mins - 4km round and round our small estate which unfortunately my ex moved to in order to continue harassing me without ever doing any actual childcare) unless my lovely next door neighbour is in her front garden (all the time) and actually offers (no I won't take advantage and yes I'll keep her in wine).

There is not a law on what age a child should be left alone BUT if anything was to happen you would be held responsible, I have recently been leaving my 10, 6 & 4 year old in the house themselves while I go to the supermarket and out for essentials once or twice a week, eldest has a phone if anything was wrong but a
i feel they are safer in the house for half an hour than coming to the supermarket with me at the moment plus it would take me longer, I had social work involved recently due to leaving an abusive relationship last year & ex being arrested and I actually mentioned the social worker on the phone when she was checking in on us that I had being doing this, she agreed that it was probably safer than taking them.

@SonEtLumiere

My 6 year old could call an ambulance but she wouldn't be able to follow instructions from paramedics in the same way an adult could (she probably couldn't physically lift her brother into the recovery position). If someone was choking she wouldn't be able to handle it in time, she wouldn't be able to stem bleeding properly and in the event of a fire might not find the best route out of the house or be able to help her older brother.

On a thread you started in March OP about how you were struggling as a single parent...
You say both your children are under 7

It worries me that she has them so well drilled about how to cope in an emergency when she is not there. At those ages it would not have occurred to me to tell my children how to get in and out of the front door from both inside and outside if it's locked. I can't think of any reason why they might have needed to know, frankly.

What if you had a fall and were knocked unconscious? How would your children open the door to let paramedics in if you don't teach them how to open it? Let alone even know how to call for the paramedics if you don't teach them how to act in emergencies. These are important things all parents should be teaching their children, whether they first leave them alone at 6 years old or 16.

When I was growing up we so often heard “don’t play with matches” because they are dangerous and have caused the accidental death of families. Do you the most effective way of dealing with that? My kids have been taught how to light a match/candle/fire safely.

My friend's grandchildren when they were smaller and at their other grandparents house, the younger one decided to play with matches and started a fire but his big brother (still only 5 or 6 at the time), who had learnt how to deal with fires, was able to put out the fire and avert disaster.

@Bringringbring12 OP has addressed this already, RTFT.

And let's not derail the thread by getting into arguments about what constitutes 'under 7'

Tiredandtestedteacher..
They have a phone!
Unreal. Never have I ever read such a Ignorant op.
Yell at the gate for the kids ffs
Feral is the word

At those ages it would not have occurred to me to tell my children how to get in and out of the front door from both inside and outside if it's locked. I can't think of any reason why they might have needed to know, frankly.

This might actually be one of the saddest things I've read in a while. Why would you want to stop your children from learning and growing and knowing how to handle things in an emergency? Just because you're not planning to ever leave them alone doesn't mean they shouldn't start learning now. The earlier they learn, the more ingrained it is and the less of a big deal. Like talking to the 1 year old in a pram when crossing the road - look both ways, are there cars etc?

It's like the parent at DS' school who told me that they're a bit concerned about the RSE stuff because when their 8 year old recently asked about how babies are made they gave him some story about mummies and daddies loving each other and babies miraculously appearing.

@Peanutbuttermouth So even after your last post you don't accept really that you have been negligent?

Posting about your child calling 999 is not the point.

There is a huge difference between a child doing that and being left alone in charge of a younger child when anything could happen.

You simply have no imagination. Or if you have, it's selective in the extreme.

You keep finding examples to justify your behaviour, but will not take the point you are probably breaking the law by leaving children that age alone.

There is no cut-off age for leaving children alone. People state 12 but that's not true. I researched this for some work I had to do , to advise families.

It's what is reasonable and 99% of people would not consider 8 and 6 mature enough to be alone.

Telling us what they do in Japan is neither here nor there, It's a different culture with different behaviour and environment.

Walking to school is not the same as being alone in the house.
I walked to school alone at 7, or with friends, but I was never left alone looking after a sibling at that age.

You are missing the point.

Get a skipping rope. Seriously.

You have also said your kids will do nothing except watch Netflix. 'Not even play in the garden'.

Quite how that stacks up with your neighbour watching them in your garden when you go running is rather odd.

Your last post is just self justifying crap. Still taking no responsibility for leaving your children. Hardly relevant what happens to children in developing countries. Children used to be sent to work down the mines, up chimneys, in factories in the UK. Do you think we should start doing that again? And walking to school is very different to being left in the house, and for no good reason. You haven't answered why you cant do 30 minutes of fitness online. Even more stupid to go off running and leaving them alone when your ex lives on your running route. I imagine he will be logging this every single time. I cant imagine any parent wouldn't report this tbh

What if you got hit by a car? Didn't come home? Was unconscious. So could t tell them you're kids were home alone

You are 10000""% sure your kids would raise the alarm?

Children's brains aren't developed to act in all situations. Jeez. Most adults can't always act in shock.

Yes they coped when you collapsed. But you were there. There's a real difference. Even if you're unconscious. Which you weren't. As you said your son held your hand and reassured you.

99% of the posters have said they felt it was Too young. Regardless of what you might feel. Regardless of if he did it out of concern. Or get back.

If the kids had to call an ambulance once that's good/ok because it couldn't be avoided, but that's not the same as leaving them on their own so you can go out and do something you enjoy.

I'm 43 and by the age of 8 we walked the 10 mins to school or maybe would go out into the fields, but people just don't parent that way anymore, and we would never have been left in the house - I knw that doesn't make sense but it's the way it was, it's virtually illegal to do that. I think the theory then is there are things like hobs, the kids might decide to randomly turn them on or try and cook something, stuff like that. You think your kids wouldn't do that but they're kids, sometimes they're going to do random shit. I know we could've fallen out of a tree or something if out but that dichotomy is just how it was, in my family at least, I don't know if other parents were that lax.

kids in developing countries are babysitting and helping their parents in the market at similar ages

I assume you want a different life for your kids than kids in developing countries that have to do stuff because of family poverty or whatever or where there are still children working all hours. Either way, it is not ok here and if you were to do it for a bit longer you could be accused of neglect- even now SS are now involved and rightly so. I wouldn't tell them you don't know how to parent btw, you don't know how that could end up.

Your ex is malicious but try not to give him ammunition of any kind.