20 years in it’s dawned on me...

[Treatedlikeamaid]

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

Yes... putting up with crap to sell the odd thing to immense pressure to earn gazillions
Textbook

He might have an interview
Textbook (thought he had a great business? He's spent money on printer ink!)

The cost of data is spiralling out of control!
Textbook (answer don't speak to him or WhatsApp him)

I want you to think about the last time he made you feel good about yourself that wasn't just so he could get something.

If you can't think of several recent examples then I want you to seriously ask yourself would your financial situation improve or worsen without him (given the house would be sold and you would no longer be supporting him). I think he had debts? My guess is he's a lazy bugger. So he's not bringing anything to the party - can it really get worse????

Thanks ladies. Just had Pepe, who is a farmer helping me set up the Internet on here at the local bar. Mums is rubbish.Very funny, though very frustrating!
I’m so glad you are here. So much running thu my head.
You are pointing out things that should be obvious - Katy, you make a LOT of sense. And I’m not wasting time writing an email. Can’t be arsed.
I keep stopping to consider what you have written, but need to get back so will just say thank you. Thinkingg, thank you for recognising the inability to think straight - and for mentioning that he is piling on the panic.vodka, he does work hard at what he does , it’s just that it comes with the idea that I do everything else. Just re read Lundy Bancroft, ‘why does he do that’ and bits I didn’t recognise when I started this thread now seem clearer . I still am anxious about calling/upsetting him though.I am insane.
You are all right - priority is mum. She is a bit healthier now but it’s only just a week of medicine. My Brother arrives on Thursday, which of course is why I’m supposed to go back then, but we will have to sort out legal stuff - and work out what to do next. Bringing kids out will just be too expensive and it becomes all about them. Mum lovely and says he is old fashioned husband - wants you to do well so he can show off, but not too well. She said, he should be saying,’what would you like to do?’ And supporting each other to do that. In fact she pretty much said what you guys and the counsellor said over a cuppa. I love her.
She says it will do him and kids good not to have you there and to learn independence. Besides I won’t be around for ever and they are just starting ‘ but she also says,’ do what YOU want to do - not what you think I, or anyone else wants you to do’.
Ugh, can feel the familiar Anxiety and muddle .( anxiety remarkably less since been here!) brother can’t stand him and says he’s controlling and a bully and has no empathy.
Better go, don’t know if this made sense. Sorry if it hasn’t! Just very glad you are there. And yes random, would adore that. Why am I so scared of upsetting him?

Your family especially your brother have the measure of him. Please tell your DB everything!!!

Is he in the financial position to help you leave etc?

Do you have any idea of the equity in your house?

Sounds like your brother has the measure of him. Can you stay a few more days and talk to your brother about all this? It is invaluable to have someone irl who knows you, knows DH, has your best interests at heart and whom you'd happily pick up the phone to (I'm guessing you are wary of burdening your mother with the real truth).

As for why are you scared of him, well, you have been trained for 20 years to put his mood above all else. That won't be fixed overnight. You can speed it by putting yourself deliberately in situations where he will be upset/dickish and where the sky will not fall in.

Your mind needs new data. The data that says input: I upset DH; output:no material difference to my life. Desensitisation process really.

Practice makes perfect with his moods being like water off a duck's back.

I also recommend learning some kind of quick meditation or mindfulness techniques to calm yourself when he has shaken you up into an anxious muddle.

There is a poster called jamaisjedors who had a moody DH (now stbxh), as time went on she wrote about the meditation etc she had started to find calm when he was being an arse.

Jamais posted for months and months. Here is the first of several threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking

I think you see your DH clearly enough now that you might see parallels and find some useful advice.

Yes, I was also going to suggest staying a few extra days to speak with your brother (who is correct, by the way).

Another one who thinks your brother has the full measure of him.

I also think extending your stay would be very good for you.

Speaking frankly to your brother and seeing if he can support you would give you invaluable IRL support.

Try and enjoy this time with your mum

I was thinking earlier you need an ally. You brother sounds great.

He works hard? And yet you are in dire financial straits? Hm. Somethings not adding up. He's a liability in every possible way.

Blooming keyboard! Keep losing writing.
Finally called after got him to get what’s app ( thanks vodka!) id got a couple of sickly texts which didn’t seem that caring.surely he should have called, as mentioned?
He was Doing the poor me voice. I was gobsmacked ( at last am realising! ) and said I didn’t need this, I need support. It felt like he was trying to ask a few questions.Said I’d be staying longer. And couldn’t make plans( go me!)Ended up telling me how bored the kids are. I Suggested mum said to all come for a week later on when she is sorted - oops. Told me what an awful time he’s having. we were in danger of doing a who has it worse’ competition, which is what his sister does. He said how hard it is cooking for ungrateful kids, how only on computers Etc. So I gave him some tips and he got irritated. End of chat. He said I love you, I Fudged a reply.
Thanks to you am realising this bewildered icky feeling isn’t me.
Have to remind myself that it’s ok to stay a bit longer ( it will be 2 weeks on sun) tho feel for the kids, mum is priority and she is sooo happy I’m here. Work is project based and I can do it here. How amazing is that?!
Have to remind myself that this is the man who wanted me to go see his family at Xmas ( again)not my 87 yr old mum who lives alone cos his sister, who he suddenly cared for, was visiting and she’d be disappointed And I’m the utter idiot that was too scared to just go.
A couple of years ago, I tried to go and it got really nasty. Think it got me well trained.
Xmas was awful, I had to tell his parents to stop rowing because this was my holiday. I’m also the idiot that listened to him saying don’t go in Feb. Because he was being made redundant. Er, mum had no electricity brother had to sort it. Blooming heck.
Thanks tork, for As for why are you scared of him, well, you have been trained for 20 years to put his mood above all else. That won't be fixed overnight. You can speed it by putting yourself deliberately in situations where he will be upset/dickish and where the sky will not fall in
And for the thread, you are right, I’m learning a lot. -Atm, not to put up with crap, think of my needs, realise he won’t change, that he doesn’t care as such, just wants things arranged to suit him.
Crumbs.

Yes, he does just want things arranged to suit him.

In my experience, he will ramp up his efforts to get you back where he wants when you get back, so I would recommend some kind of plan which you can focus on. I mean plan in two senses. You did well in the WhatsApp but when you go back, his emotional manipulation and complaints will be there 24/7. He may also find ways to punish you (you have been away so he is taking the time to work on his business/job search and you need to do the housework, he has done it for two weeks or whatever). So the first part of the plan is not to be guilted in any way.

The other part of the plan is what you are going to do and what you want to achieve. If you have that clear in your head (and that it is reasonable to want these things), then it will be easier to not get sucked back into his dynamic.

I don’t think you will need to put yourself in situations as Vodka says - I think this could anyway be your reality when you get back. The more you gain independence, the more he will ramp up his efforts to rein you back in. You could try cutting across it all and telling him to stop such behaviour, this is how your lives are going now. Or you could just get on with what you want to do with his ‘noise’ in the background.

Of course, I hope against hope that part of your conversation with your brother is about what you want to do. You are going to make it out of this situation.

Finally, if you can row back on the suggestion that he and the children visit, I am sure it would be great for his job search and business planning if he had peace and quiet and the children came alone. Especially given that if he comes to Spain, there is still going to be cooking and cleaning to do...

Personally, if there is a way that you can separate and get the house on the market whilst staying in Spain and only go back when you have your own place rented, I think that would be ideal. Particularly if you can get the children over in the meantime.

Maybe that is not yet possible, I don’t know, but if the thought seems good, hold on to it. You have a job, you have a business which you can develop, you are not married so you don’t need to divorce. The problem is you don’t have access to the equity in the marital home and I don’t know how cohabitation works in law in England so at some point you need advice on that, particularly as you gave up work to look after the children.

I don’t know. I am biased as I did leave but in your position, I would be looking for the light at the end of the tunnel.

Although if you are on the mortgage and title of the property, then you presumably do have access to the equity 🤷🏻‍♀️

Treated would have to force sale of the house to get her equity out of it.

You can access the housing element of UC (income dependent) towards rent if you have left an abusive relationship So long as after several months you can evidence that you are taking steps to getting hold of your share of any property.

I really hope you are on the deeds!

Oh hahaha I am loving the new Treated! So he is at home cooking for 'ungrateful' kids is he? I'm sorry I would leave them all to it for as long as possible! He might learn some empathy and realise what you go through.

If he starts it's very easy to just snap "welcome to my life. And while you're not working and I am you'll be doing a lot more of that".

I think you really should start treating him a bit meanly. You very clearly don't have the feelings for him any more (gosh I wonder why??) and I think it's about time you gave him a taste of his own medicine. Get him doing the housework and cooking. Be annoyed when he doesn't. Ignore his whining or tell him not to complain.

Will it work? No. But you'll feel better and stronger.

I agree completely with @Vodkacranberryplease, it would be wonderful for your self esteem to give him a good old dose of a dismissive wife.

No harm for him to see his children as they are, especially your son who shows signs of mimicking his father🤨.

The longer you stay the better.
The longer you are away the easier it becomes to detach.

He doesn't work hard.
How could he?
He has spent the past 20 years of his life bullying and grinding you into the ground.

Perhaps if his head had been more focussed
on working on himself and improving his career, he would have made of a success of it.

Instead, he has spent these years micro managing his partner who is finally realising what a totally pathetic, odious head fxxk he actually is.

Tell him to suck it up OP👍

@billy1966 *Perhaps if his head had been more focussed on working on himself and improving his career, he would have made of a success of it.

Instead, he has spent these years micro managing his partner who is finally realising what a totally pathetic, odious head fxxk he actually is.*

Haha so true. My ex biz partner spent hours and hours micro managing, manipulating, playing games and scheming I always thought if he had spent half that time working he would be rich! Instead he's fired.

Hi all. Yup, am finally realising what a totally pathetic, odious head fxxk he actually is thanks, a lot to you all.
Brother ( on phone) says, ‘yeah he’s been crap for 20 years but that’s your choice’ which wasn’t helpful. But is tough love. Sure we will talk more.
Got a nice text, so Called dh ( mistake!) and conversation is about ....What I’ll do about mum, how Utterly crap everything is. (Was actually shocked at state Of him and Ds. He says he’s given up on ds. Wtf?) I was saying Please see a counsellor, ( I really can’t deal with his depression. It’s like he dumps it all on me.He’s obv upset at being made redundant by an awful boss, but Now realised there’s always been something...and that’s partly how he controls me.OMG. You are all right. He’s always kept me anxious. )him getting irritated.

IVe got into a massive downwards spiral that I can’t shake off. I’m wasting my energy thinking of him All The Time. I get so anxious I get frozen. Beginning to think that’s coz he dumps it all on me, and there’s no let up..which is what the original post was! Ha! Will re read it as am sure I’m repeating myself. Sorry. Having a wobble.Mum lovely but it’s upsetting. Am here for another week.

Katy I think you’re right I’ll be punished, which I Knew but didn’t fully recognise before.☹️ I need to tell him to behave like the thread tork recommended. Which is hard as you can’t tell someone to buck up, when he’s had such crap happen. Well, you can. Beginning to actually think I don’t want to live like this. Always anxious and depressed. Mates tell me to live here, but in reality I can hardly uproot the kids that much. Job isn’t enough to live off - a few hundred quid. Yes half the house is mine. Thank goodness counsellor tomorrow. I need to stop complaining and Stop being a victim and make some decisions. Sorry for being a bit wet.
Am really glad you have helped me see his behaviour for what it is. Realise am being a bit wet.

Is the job enough to live on with universal credit and child benefit, though, and if you upped your hours? Plus have the equity on the house.

He is using the children now as a way of keeping you engaged and actually in some ways already punishing you. By being so melodramatic, he is making your thoughts turn to him and DS. In practice, there is probably nothing which thousands of parents all over the country need to deal with. Then of course, there is the stuff which is all about him (you are right, he needs to see his Gp and/or a counsellor). Remember it goes in the parcel you metaphorically leave on the table. Then pressuring you about what you are going to do about your mum, when actually you don’t know and cannot really know as it is a difficult situation.

So no wonder you feel anxious. You are not being wet or a victim (well, in some ways you are a victim and to be honest, so have many other people been from abuse and that is nothing to be ashamed of). Do not add to your burdens by negative language and beliefs about yourself. You are a person who is, in time, going to sort things out and learn and grow from this situation.

Regarding your brother, it is very difficult to comment on what you see in other’s marriages because at the end of the day, you do not want to disrespect their choices. I said to my sister something which I felt about her husband and with what I thought were her best interests at heart and it ruined our relationship. So I think your brother is walking a bit of a line by saying what he thinks (your partner is a bully) and that it is your choice (you are the one living with it and may not agree, although now you do). It is a risk to speak candidly about what you think of other’s relationships, unless they ask for advice.

The problem is, after many years of child-reading and without enough money, the idea that you should just leave is difficult to put into practice; plus with all the emotional manipulation and messing with your head, the extent to which staying is a choice is questionable- it is more like you cannot think straight because you are always responding to his needs and attempts to keep you engaged. Which are relentless and the only way to stop them, as you are finding out, is not to speak to him, or be in a situation where you are constantly putting boundaries around what you take on board as he does not respect boundaries. I suspect that your counsellor will be better than me at suggesting how to do this.

*child-rearing

Thanks Katysun for your time and advice. I will look into money when I return.
Your comments are so wonderfully clear and cut through all my muddle.
I think you are right - he is trying Punish me and to keep himself center stage. From flu to desperate re everything to how to use the washing machine. (!)
You are a person who is, in time, going to sort things out and learn and grow from this situation Thank you a million times for this comment. Sticking it with my collection!
I’m very sorry you sister chose to take your comments badly, that’s awful. I hope you manage to reconnect.
Also thanks for your last para. Was beginning to feel wet for not being all decisive and reacting to what it seems is so obv to brother And you guys.i am getting a lot better at seeing that it’s his stuff, but yes, it is relentless- especially if I seem happy. Or if I want to do something- before Xmas I wanted to do a business course and he made it insanely difficult to get there. - all manipulation and he’s tired/ill/ cant afford.
. I have just got ‘should I stay or should I go’ by Bancroft and it looks very calm and reassuring. I even had a long struggle whether I could buy it. He has me financially trained as well.
And am reading the thread tork mentioned - very useful. Which is helping me feel a bit more in control. Right, that’s enough about him! What do I want to do right now? Talk to mum who is much more important
Many many thanks.

He can't cope with DS for 10 days, utterly pathetic and it's to get you running back.

Tell him to put the kids on the next available flights if he can't cope with them

OP, you are not wet.

It is so unbelievably wearing to be with someone who's sole focus is to dominate, control and drag you down.

A normal partner would say "I've got this, you focus on your mum"....knowing there is nothing you can do thir end.

Of course people share a bitch and a moan with each other, but not to deliberately drag the other down.

It's corrosive to the soul.

This is who he has been, who he is, and who he will ever be.....

He does not love you OP...
He does not know what love is....

Try and focus on your mum during this time...don't let him take that from you too

This is all a game! Poor me, I'm getting depressed! It's your fault! I need you here and under control and I can see just telling you isn't working! Oh and your children are in danger! Oh no you don't matey. Just no.

And his nasty horrible boss? Really? I think his boss would have a very different story. Veeeerrrryy different. But of course you will never know. Unless you join linked in for example and amongst your network connect with said boss. Then maybe a carefully worded private message...

Uproot your children from their beloved games consoles and miserable grey life? No you're right you couldn't possibly subject them, or yourself to all that fresh air, sun, swimming and beaches and fresh food! That would just be cruel.

No much better than you all carry on a life in poverty and misery as dictated by his majesty - who appears to have managed to left you all without any financial resources while simultaneously 'working hard' and running a business! Which takes quite some doing! I always found that working hard meant people kept paying me money and businesses made money.

It must be a special technique he's perfected.

‘Control ability to go to school or place of study’ is part of the Crown Prosecution Service guidance on relevant behaviours for coercive control. It is hardly ever as obvious as ‘no, I forbid it or I will beat you up’ but more insidious and nuanced, as you describe with your business course - emotional manipulation and barriers in your way.

Isolating a person from or limiting access to friends and family are also in there as is monitoring your time. Things which are clearly evident in this thread.

Threats to harm a child is another - you see, he is not threatening physical harm as blackmail, which would be more obvious, but ‘giving up on’ which is emotional harm.

So you read the list and think oh, it is not that bad, but if you work your way down the part on relevant behaviour and consider the nuances and the effect, I think you will find he ticks quite a few of the boxes.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/controlling-or-coercive-behaviour-intimate-or-family-relationship

For example, the regulation of sleep - my ex did this but in a quite subtle way - he would always ask me how I slept and then if I was getting enough sleep, start arguments at 10pm so I could not sleep for churning it over (and he would sleep fine). Once I cottoned on to this, I stopped answering the questions in any meaningful way. Was it deliberate? I don’t know, it would be hard to evidence, but it was a pattern.