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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

20 years in it’s dawned on me...

994 replies

Treatedlikeamaid · 20/04/2020 11:57

That dh has a pattern of behaviour and I fall for it every time.
He gets very anxious and it feels like he copes by getting at me until I’m as anxious as he is. I need to keep positive so that I ive things and look after kids.
Only just dawned on me after he’s just done it again that he’s done it a zillion times - to the point where I couldn’t cope and couldn’t stop crying even in the doctors office.
I’ve been working hard on self esteem and encouraging myself to set up a teeny business which has had good reviews, hubby is all Victorian businessman, ‘what’s the plan ? It will never works etc etc. ‘There are several models which are working very well, so I’m sure there is room for me.
which means whatever I’d thought or planned goes out of my head and I feel stupid and ridiculous. I’m sure a few words of interest or even a ‘well done’ would be of help. It’s like he’s allowing me to do it, but if it gets busy he accuses me of the house being a tip.
Just could do with some encouragement, being a bit needy at the mo!
Thanks!,,,

OP posts:
Gutterton · 23/04/2020 11:42

I agree with Comtesse it sounds like he holds a lot of rage - most probably for his angry father (tell us a bit more about this upbringing) - but is unable to express it to him so all of this unresolved anger is projected at you. He gets an emotional release - he needs to put you down to stay afloat - he is playing top-dog / under-dog as this is likely the blueprint he had in his family.

He doesn’t do equal relationships where you have each other’s backs, support and encourage each other.

Kindness and respect are the cornerstone behaviours of any relationship - even with a colleague, distant relation, vague acquaintance.

He doesn’t show you either of these - worse he actively demonstrates the opposite nastiness and disregard. And sabotage.
The specific project / business / situation / issue etc is irrelevant. He would attack you like this on anything.

You can work to build your emotional intelligence and resilience by reading and researching. Then you can actively start to deploy these tactics - not absorbing and internalising the vitriol and contempt he flings you way - by stopping it in its tracks and actively sending it back with the vanilla generic comments to have on hand to close him down - another good one is “I don’t see it that way”

So you need to emotionally detach from him in your head and your heart. Step back - create a vacuum between you. Turn your attention to your emotional enlightenment.

Keep reading, researching, understanding - knowledge is power - it allows you to “see it” and “feel it” so that you can reflect, then change, then grow.

Don’t concern yourself or get sidetracked with the ins and outs of HIS words or his actions (just know they are deliberately toxic and dysfunctional) - but concentrate on how you FEEL in your gut when he starts and look to emotionally protect yourself and emotionally grow yourself back to the wonderful, unique person you really are before he polluted and deflated your identity with his bitterness. Get connected back to friends and family who CARE for you. This care will nourish and grow you back.

Winnietheshit · 23/04/2020 12:03

Nothing further to add - stay strong OP!

everythingbackbutyou · 23/04/2020 18:47

OP, this is so familiar to me -

"The house is a tip"
You need to earn money
Any discussion ends up with you feeling confused and tongue tied

I feel like I could have written your post, right down to being 20 years in. I initiated a separation in November, and don't regret it for a second. It was terrifying but the alternative wasn't an option for my continued mental health or that of my children. Until a couple of years ago, I was still thinking "he doesn't mean to be nasty" and "he doesn't understand how that makes me feel", but one of the most liberating and gutting days of my life was when I realised he did understand, but he just didn't care.

everythingbackbutyou · 23/04/2020 19:04

He was so impossible to please that in the end I started almost making a game out of it. Cooking dinner and putting frozen veg into the pan, I would idly wonder "Will he say I have done too many vegetables or too few?" because invariably it would be one or the other.

Your description of trying to start a business really resonates with me. After having my younger 2 d/c I started providing a home daycare service to contribute financially, as xdh always made it quite clear I would be expected to earn something. It isn't exactly lucrative but did bring in money. I worked bloody hard at it and it's been my career field for 13 years. 'D'h was constantly complaining about the house being a mess when he came home and would point out on several occasions that I 'didn't have a job' whenever we discussed finances. I would get more support and appreciation from people the kids and I met on the street than from him. Basically he seemed to simultaneously hold the opinion that my contribution was worthless but also utterly necessary.

Treatedlikeamaid · 25/04/2020 12:45

Sorry, I didn’t realise this page was here, doh!
Been thinking about what you are saying about his past..and your last paragraph gutterton. I think you are right, it is healthier to focus on my business, Not try and puzzle out his past. Feel more positive when I do, anyway.
Everything, yes, that’s exactly it. Yes, the game! I do that too!
Also about people on street being really encouraging. - Friends and internet strangers are sooooo encouraging, couldn’t do it without them/ you. Even dd writes notes of god mum’ variety.
Was shocked to be jealous of someone who said her hubby helped her make an office. Mad.
Thanks Winnie and comtesse for the vibes!
Thanks all. I have a lot to think about. You have all helped me pull up my mood into a more positive‘I can tackle this’.
Basically going to ignore his helpfully negative input, and get on with my thing, and really try to get rid of my automatic ‘better not do x, he won’t like it’ which stops me doing everything from cutting the hedge to painting the hall.
Right! Coffee! Sunshine! Go Me!
Thank you very much.

OP posts:
Justtryingtobehelpful · 25/04/2020 22:06

Good. Come back and today's is how it's going. Its habits are difficult to break. You'll stop the ball but we're here to help to keep focused!!

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 25/04/2020 22:14

I immediately felt stupid and wrong ..do I live in a bubble? . But I kept calm and repeated that I wouldn’t put up with swearing. He denied he had sworn, but actually apologised.

I don't have personal experience of this, but your reaction sounded spot-on to me. As a PP said, emotionally detach from his anxiety and constant put-downs. Focus on your business and your children. You can't fix him, he has to work out his issues himself. What you can do is make your life successful - and if he doesn't stop behaving this way, that may result in you leaving him behind.

Fanthorpe · 25/04/2020 22:20

Incidentally I’m not sure the counsellor you saw was right for you, ‘ be nice to yourself’ isn’t very helpful, unless you came up with some specific things to work on. As you’re obviously ambitious professionally you may find someone with a coaching focus might be useful.

Treatedlikeamaid · 26/04/2020 16:50

Thanks just and ami. Will do. It’s definitely a habit I have to break. And fanthorpe, I think you are right. Ironically need to earn before I can pay for one! Total bootstrap!
Feeling a lot clearer about what I need to do now, thank you. Good thing is he’s calmed down a bit. This morning he was all, ‘we’ve got to turn this to our advantage’ can’t help it, I get instant anxiety - I have no idea how to turn a pandemic to my advantage! I think he sets a really high goal, but

OP posts:
Fanthorpe · 26/04/2020 16:59

You could try changing the way you respond to him, perhaps? If he says ‘we’ve got to turn this to our advantage’ is he expecting you to come up with answers and plans? Is that what stresses you?

How about listening attentively to what he says, then reflecting it back at him - ‘so you think we need to do more, have you got some ideas about that?’ Ask him to be specific. If he has nothing then suggest he goes away and has a think.

The idea is that you put the onus back on him all the time. You don’t have to follow any of his plans or ideas, it’s your business.

Treatedlikeamaid · 27/04/2020 08:08

Thanks fan,
Yes he throws out stuff that is massive and then expects me to come up with the ideas and do it - though usually he will dismiss my ideas. Lot of pressure! Ill suggest x and he’ll say we’ll do y.i will do this way of talking- It sounds good.
Just trying, I’ve been looking for your books online free, found...(archive.org/details/whenisaynoifeelgsmit00smit) (theedge.solutions/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Never-Split-the-Difference_-Negotiating-As-If-Your-Life-Depended-On-It-PDFDrive.com-.pdf )
came cross this quote from the author of the first book ( which I can’t find free) ‘He loves what she can do for him. He certainly does not love her in a way that he wants her to be feeling good about herself. He has no interest in her wellbeing.”
Though I don’t think he is that extreme, it’s struck a nerve somehow.
Monday anxiety!
Hope you are all ok x

OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 27/04/2020 08:14

If he doesn't like the house getting messy, why doesn't he tidy and clean it?

lottiegarbanzo · 27/04/2020 08:28

A very superificial analysis would be that he fantasises about being a 'big boss entrepreneur' at work, with minions running around magically making his brilliant ideas happen. He's playing out this fantasy at home by positioning himself as the big boss ideas man and you as the minions.

However, you know the saying 'genius is 5% inspiration, 95% perspiration'? Well, he's trying to give you 95% of the work to do!

The problem with his fantasy will be that he isn't a genius, his ideas are not that amazing and, if he doesn't do the hard work himself, he won't learn from experience and reflection, which is a crucial part of the 'inspiration' process.

In the meantime, you're doing a steady, sensible job of growing something gradually and reliably. I suspect that low key success offends his notions of genius and exponential business growth, so inevitably he feels he could do better, while also 'showing him up' because you're actually succeeding in real life, unlike him.

You might well benefit from business advice. A lot of people start businesses which will never be profitable because they rely on endless hours of obsessive work, which are not accounted for and can neither be paid for nor reduced. Then again, most business owners start off by putting huge numbers of hours in, then gradually grow into profitability.

Treatedlikeamaid · 27/04/2020 08:36

Thanks lottie.
I think I’m being optimistic in calling it a business! It’s a good idea and I think there is room in the market for my take on things, BUT there is a huge amount to do and I get confused and doubt myself. I will see what business advice I can find. I think I need a believe you can do it kick up the bum.
Just found this, looking at books from just trying..
May be helpful to someone? It’s an OMG! To me.
www.confusiontoclaritynow.com/blog/why-youre-so-confused-by-covert-abuse

Gearing myself up to REALLY get some action on meeting up my website.
Thankyou for helping me fight through this fog all of you.

OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 27/04/2020 09:03

What job does he do OP? Is he actually a genius enrepreneur? Or a small-scale businessman? Or employed? (His 'we've got to turn this to our advantage' comment sounds very Del Boy, 'this time next year we're going to be millionaires!')

Who looks after the family finances? If you have access to the family budget, or manage it yourself, you know what position you're in. It sounds as though he's keen to keep you in the dark, in fear and in thrall to 'his truth'. So my bet is that he doesn't allow you access to financial info. Have I got that wrong?

Have you both forgotten that single people, most younger couples and many couples with children, work full time and look after themselves domestically too? Doing both is completely normal. Doing a normal full-time job is not that big a deal, or so very tiring. It's ordinary.

The sort of people who have their lives arranged so that they can concentrate solely on work, so have their domestic lives facilitated for them, are rare geniuses: Oxbridge dons who live in colleges like monks (does that even happen anymore?), wealthy businesspeople who pay domestic staff, high-flyers who have forgone family for careers and, that special group, much discussed on here, the 'facilitated men of Mumsnet', who, in the examples I've read, are mostly City high-flyers, who keep and are kept by their wives (like extra demanding children) in a parallel domestic world in the home counties.

Finally, I have found, with some people I know, that if you mentally preface everything they say with the phrase 'It would be convenient to me if...', then it all suddenly makes so much more sense.

Zaphodsotherhead · 27/04/2020 10:23

My XH had grown up with a very authoritarian father. Dad's word went in the family. He only had to say 'this place looks untidy' and the whole family would scramble to tidy up.

So XH thought that's how it 'should be'. He found it hard to deal with my more laid back approach to mess and untidiness (at one point we had four small children in a two bedroomed house, mess was inevitable, but he thought he just had to say it was messy and I would be down on my hands and knees clearing up).

It was a mis-match of experience and expectation. I expected help, he expected servitude. Towards the end I grey rocked like you've never seen and he got more and more frustrated that I wasn't 'jumping'.

I hope you can get your business up and running soon @Treatedlikeamaid!

copycopypaste · 27/04/2020 10:25

Try and out the onus back on him op.

This morning you could say to him next time he mentions using the pandemic to your advantage - 'ok, shall we set aside half an hour to discuss your ideas, how does 11.30 sound'

If he comes back with 'well you should be doing something about it - 'I think it's a great idea, you've obviously got some ideas in mind, why don't you tell me them at 11.30'

'You can bring some ideas too op - 'I'm working on something else at the moment but I'd love to hear yours'

And so on

Treatedlikeamaid · 27/04/2020 10:50

Hi lottie, soo nice to hear from you all.
Dh and i just chatting re dd schoolwork and ..he pulled back from blaming me! Which is when I finally realised that is what happens every discussion - they turn into an attack of how I screwed up, ( even if I’m asking him to pick up towels!) then I feel anxious and can’t see how to resolve it.
Still in shock! He still wants me to call the school though 😀
He is a very clever chap, not paid well though and dreams of his own business. He went to posh school so I think has high standards which he’s not reaching.
I deal with the Finances, but he’ll spend loads on something I think is mad/without telling me. Then complain if I buy anything.In the past when I’ve made a mistake He’d stand over me and yell. Now very nervous about anything to do with money!
Can’t believe I’m writing this. Oh my goodness, I sound like a ( marginally) abused woman!
No wonder I’m a nervous wreck. No wonder I can’t seem to do something simple, like tweak my website. He hasn’t yelled for a year or 2, but I’m still anxious.
Realising ( again) I tick quite a few boxes in the link above and the others you have posted . Not quite sure what to do about that .
I tried the ‘ it would be convenient’ phrase - very funny!
Lot to think about ladies! Keep sane xxx

OP posts:
WitchWife · 27/04/2020 11:58

"Finally, I have found, with some people I know, that if you mentally preface everything they say with the phrase 'It would be convenient to me if...', then it all suddenly makes so much more sense."

This is genius!!

OP - I bet he has yelled in the last year or two if you really think about it. There's your post of 8ish today where you mention him yelling if you try to post on social media? (WHY???)

He's clearly trying to sabotage you and make you doubt yourself, it sounds so horrible. Brilliant that you're finally able to open your eyes and realise he is the problem. Have any of your friends or family noticed his behaviour over the years?

Gutterton · 27/04/2020 12:28

That link you posted OP has just blown my mind. Thank you x

WitchWife · 27/04/2020 12:41

Are you ok @Gutterton?

Zaphodsotherhead · 27/04/2020 12:41

Presumably he hasn't yelled for a year or two because he hasn't needed to. You are second guessing yourself all the time to keep in line with his expectations.

He's trained you.

lottiegarbanzo · 27/04/2020 14:09

He is a very clever chap, not paid well though and dreams of his own business. He went to posh school so I think has high standards which he’s not reaching.

Bingo. He's frustrated with himself, his lack of success and his status failing to match his expectations. He takes all of that internal frustration out on you.

ChewChewIsMySpiritAnimal · 27/04/2020 14:25

is a very clever chap, not paid well though and dreams of his own business

There you go, he's jealous because you've got the gumption to go for it and he hasnt. He doesn't want you to succeed where he can't.

everythingbackbutyou · 27/04/2020 17:25

@Zaphodsotherhead, is your exh my exh?! Except the only person running round tidying up was his mum.