Have any of you repeatedly been an OW, and if so, do you know why?

[NoMoreDickheads]

This is probably not an unknown subject for a post, but I have often found myself to be an OW.

Have any of you tended to be the same, and if so, do you know why you've tended to end up in this position?

Am not going to do it again.

You need to address the behaviour rather than write people of

Peoples behaviour and actions are a good indicator of them as a person. That's exactly what I'll judge someone on.

When I found out about the existence of OW at DH's work (flirtation leading to a ONS - so he insists) it was because another colleague of hers emailed me to tell me, and the reason she knew about it was because the OW had taken great glee in bragging about it to anyone who would listen at work (which 'email colleague' deeply objected to). She was, and I quote 'a known marriage wrecker', who had done this to other people before. What does that tell me about her? That she takes pleasure in tempting men away from their wives because she gets a kick out of it and an ego boost, that she likes to portray herself as some irresistible seductress who is 'better' than the wives - that is how she thinks of herself. BUT, what that says to me is that she needs this ego boost because she knows deep down that she is a pile of shit human being full of flaws, no better than anyone else actually in reality, and in fact her heartless, immoral, selfish behaviour makes her a lesser person than all the wives she has wronged - real people to whom she has caused deep pain, PTSD and humiliation (yes the husbands are more at fault, but we aren't talking about them in this thread, it's about OW) . What a shit role model she must be to her own daughter. I dread to think what I would do if I ever came face to face with her. I think I might feel slightly differently if it wasn't for the bragging - the cruelty of that I can never accept or forgive. I will hate her until I die.

More broadly, a number of thinkers are beginning to reconsider how, culturally, we process infidelity. They are calling on couples to get more realistic about the viability of long-term monogamy. Shining a harsh light on how starry-eyed we are, they argue that our expectations of absolute fidelity are mounting, even as new threats proliferate; think hookup sites, cybersex, digital porn and the rise of "work spouses." They're exposing how badly we react to infidelity, how poorly we understand what it all actually represents in our relationships.

From an article...

But you aren't addressing the fact that it's still wrong to lie to one partner who doesn't know their partner is sleeping with other people.

If you want to sleep with multiple people then be single and do so, don't tell your partner you're monogamous and lie to them.

You're skirting the issue by reiterating monogamy isn't natural or healthy. I agree that scientifically that's a perfectly valid theory.

But it's up to individuals to take responsibility for their behaviour and not lie to their sexual partners about the status of their relationships.

Individuals should surely have the courage of their convictions and not challenge a social construct in theory but pretend to live within it while lying about it in practice.

You seem to think people aren't understanding your position that monogamy isn't natural or necessarily healthy. I think that's a valid argument.

I don't, however, think that lying to a partner about your behaviour regarding monogamy is acceptable.

If you believe monogamy to be unnatural and unrealistic then don't enter into / stay in what your partner believes is a monogamous relationship.

Exactly shescurly - I think the key to this is about understanding the behaviour. We believe it to be wrong - but why? - the majority of people (from statistics) cheat.

I had a short 2 month fling with a married man .
I am not making excuses for myself , I did it .
However I was in a very bad place emotionally at the time and it was seeking comfort I think from a father figure . ( he was older and had a lot of my dads traits ). He was a client , it started with him being supportive when I became a single parent and him coming over to do diy .

He was honest and said he loved his wife , family .. didn’t want to break them up but his wife had gone off intimacy and sex

One day a lightbulb went off in my head and I just saw him as a selfish twat who wanted to have his cake and eat it . I figured most likely he just didn’t want to end up paying maintenaince or losing the home or a wife cooking and cleaning
I just decided

1. I didn’t want to be any part of deceiving or hurting another woman ( or his children )
2. I was way to good to be ow and just for sex

We live in a small town . Know lots of the same people , he was at school with an older relative . It would have been horrible if it came out . He actually text me once to remind me not to put perfume on ( wife would smell it )

Exactly shescurly - I think the key to this is about understanding the behaviour. We believe it to be wrong - but why? - the majority of people (from statistics) cheat.

I don't believe its wrong to have multiple partners. At all.

I do believe it's wrong to tell one partner you're in a monogamous relationship when that's a lie and you are in fact sleeping with other people.

Being poly is fine. Being poly behind your monogamous partners back is not. My poly friends absolutely agree with that.

I’m not really typing here from a personal point of view - other than to admit that I have cheated in the past. It is wrong to lie, but I also admit to lying on a daily basis. I’ve just taken an important parcel to someone who was worried about me driving. I lied and said I was in the area anyway...

Yep - I also believe it’s wrong to lie, but I do it a lot!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/the-evolution-of-lying-14254

I do agree with you curly - it is wrong to cheat.

Interesting thread.
It's not the fact that your seemingly monogamous partner has had sex with someone else that destroys people in affairs.
It's the fact that they lie to your face
They steal your reality.

Needhelp101 - for me it was both those things that destroyed me. The knowledge that he had been naked and physically intimate with somebody else - the absolute agony that caused me (and always will), the total torture of the thoughts that went with that. And then yes, also the deceit. Exactly as you say, "they steal your reality", yes they do. They really do. Suddenly your whole life feels like a lie, you don't know anymore what is actually real and what is not, and you feel like you don't even know the person who you are closest to in the world, it is a total mind fuck and it affects your emotional and mental health massively - I can totally understand how a betrayal like that could lead people to suicide, it is the worst feeling in the world. In comparison, three of my beloved grandparents died within 3 months of each other, but finding out my DH had betrayed me was far more painful than those combined bereavements, it left me howling on the floor in emotional agony when I was alone in the house. I don't actually think I will ever get over it. And I no longer have any faith in men - though logically I know some of them must be trustworthy, I now believe that the trustworthy ones are way in the minority. In fact, when I was having a wobble recently and me and DH were having a heart to heart and I asked if there was anything I could have done differently in the run up to his infidelity that would have changed his actions and he said no, it was nothing to do with me or anything I perceive to be lacking, it was as simple as "Men are cunts." his words not mine. Anyway. I have wandered off tangent here a bit.

@Magicpaintbrush I am so sorry to read about the agony that you have been through. You did not deserve it. And no one who really loved someone would put them through that.

Indeed, no one who is capable of genuine love towards another human being - rather than purely selfish gratification - would behave in a way that would cause someone else to experience this pain.

I hope you are in a better place now.

Perhaps we are brought up with a starry eyed, Disney princess, unrealistic view of love? Is this the issue? I’m not agreeing with cheating - but something is wrong. And I’m sorry to say this again - but the majority of people will cheat at some point in their lives.

The world has changed in recent years - porn, hook up sites, work ‘companions’. There is more opportunity to cheat than ever - these things are not going to disappear.

@Magicpaintbrush

I'd get yourself a few hookups with attractive men (lots online) .. you don't need to tell him.

People who betray and deceive deserve no loyalty and no honesty.

Only one good thing can be said about him- at least he didn't try to lie about why he did it. Most of them go for that cop out and fix on some random shit the woman did "wrong" that wasn't the real reason they cheated.

@Goldfinch432 The world has changed in recent years - porn, hook up sites, work ‘companions’. There is more opportunity to cheat than ever - these things are not going to disappear.

This is utterly ignorant, ahistorical rubbish.

In my parents' generation, it was almost universal for the men to cheat - at least in the kind of world that my dad worked in, and most of my friends'/partners' parents too.

It was far easier when there were no mobile phones, no texting, no 'find my phone', no ability to check in with your partner when you weren't physically with them.

When I was very very young (16) and working in central London, I was constantly propositioned by middle-aged men working in the City and surrounding areas. (And sorry to say, acted on this quite a few times - I was more or less a child.) Men would buy you drinks and fuck you before getting the train home to their wives.

At the same time, even though cheating was absolutely normalised then, some people didn't, because they were decent human beings. Just like some people don't cheat now, because they are decent human beings.

Technology just enables people to do things in a different way.

Stop trying to excuse people's shitty, inexcusable behaviour with half-baked, incorrect, sweeping generalisations and fundamental misunderstandings of history and biology.

It’s not Scarlett - and I don’t think you should attack me - just as I won’t attack you. I’ve read quite a few evolutionary, philosophical and recent newspaper are ticked about it. Can you forward me to any recent articles you’ve read to justify your viewpoint?

Especially in regards to my misunderstanding of biology as my degree is in this. I’m very interested.

I find it pretty much impossible that anyone with a degree in biology would claim that humans undergo 'pair-bonding'.

I’ve read quite a few evolutionary, philosophical and recent newspaper are ticked about it.

Fuck me, I'd missed that this was your citation. I have a PhD in this area, btw. In case you want to carry on with this.

That was a bit harsh, @ScarlettBlaize, and a bit hasty!
Utterly ignorant, ahistorical rubbish indeed
You seem to be confusing anecdote with data
The stats support Goldfinch. Infidelity is increasing, particularly amongst women (note: your examples were middle aged men cheating on their wives - those numbers have increased but not too much)

@Goldfinch432

Even your most basic, simple assertions are completely wrong.

You: "And I’m sorry to say this again - but the majority of people will cheat at some point in their lives."

Salaky points to research from the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapy, which found that about 45% of men and 35% of women have admitted to having an emotional affair. That's a lot more than the 20% of people who admit to having a physical affair.

www.businessinsider.com/science-of-cheating-2017-8?r=US&IR=T#emotional-affairs-are-becoming-increasingly-common-8

You should be 'sorry to say it' - not because it's oh-so-traumatic to hear, but because it's bullshit.

@Woofandwhiskers

The stats support Goldfinch

What stats would that be, then?