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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Have any of you repeatedly been an OW, and if so, do you know why?

289 replies

NoMoreDickheads · 26/02/2020 18:50

This is probably not an unknown subject for a post, but I have often found myself to be an OW.

Have any of you tended to be the same, and if so, do you know why you've tended to end up in this position?

Am not going to do it again.

OP posts:
Goldfinch432 · 27/02/2020 18:02

Am defo going to teach my children that marriage and a monogamous relationship may not be right for them. And that’s fine! And to meet someone who agrees with their views and needs.

GilbertMarkham · 27/02/2020 18:03

Therefore it's a construct.

That doesnt make it a construct.

Monogamous coupledom (for as long as it lasts) evolved. It's pair- bonding.

DameHannahRelf · 27/02/2020 18:05

One one hand, I couldn't knowingly be the other woman, as I wouldn't want to do that to another woman, or any dc involved.

On the other hand, I can see how being the ow or mistress would be preferable to being the wife, getting the best of a man, the fun with non of the responsibility. His dw launders his clothes/keeps him, his home, and his dc, while the ow gets the chase, him on his best behaviour, the excitement, and to keep that little bit of mystery, intrigue and freedom (financial and otherwise), that his dw doesn't. The feeling that he's risking everything for you, that you must be more attractive or better in bed or some other way, than his wife (usually bullshit of course).

I can see why people knowingly decide to be the ow, but it's a selfish thing to do. If you didn't know he was taken, that's 100% on him and nobody else' fault.

GilbertMarkham · 27/02/2020 18:05

And to meet someone who agrees with their views and needs.

But lots of people won't be honest because of reasons outlined already.

Also who pays for kids and how. CM is an unsuccessful system.

Goldfinch432 · 27/02/2020 18:05

Has it? Why? Or did some outdated religious view convince us to be that way??

Goldfinch432 · 27/02/2020 18:06

Everyone is selfish. We all are.

Goldfinch432 · 27/02/2020 18:09

Why? Why do we all have the morals and views we uphold. Are they good ones? Are they the best ones to teach our children?

ScarlettBlaize · 27/02/2020 18:12

@MuffinMittens
In her case, it seems to have something to do with competition - winning over other women. I remember when we were young, for instance, she found it very difficult when I had a boyfriend as that meant the boyfriend fancied me more than her (and in fact she went out of her way to snog two of them later on), and also that a boyfriend might take my attention away from her. Very insecure in people's affections, I suppose, so had to "win" to prove herself.

Absolutely. I know one woman who has gone out of her way to repeatedly have affairs with married/partnered men. In most cases she knows the wives/partners and has pretended to be their friend.

In her case it absolutely is about proving that she's so sexy and amazing and stunning and beautiful that she can 'get one over' on the wife/girlfriend - missing the point that there are a lot of men out there with fuck-all morals or decency who will fuck anyone who makes themselves sufficiently available.

The last I heard of her she was having yet another affair with a married man and complaining to our mutual friend about it. I have never known her to be someone's 'primary' lover, and in the rare cases where one of the men has attempted to make a go of a real relationship with her, it's ended in disaster because she's a fundamentally selfish, narcissistic person who's only interested in 'winning' over other women, and not capable of experiencing a relationship that's not founded on betrayal and lies.

I'd 100% rather be single than be like her.

SudokuQueen · 27/02/2020 18:29

So it's fine to ignore someone else's social 'rules'/construct on marriage, relationships etc just because you don't want to follow them? Because you want to shag someone, even if they are in a relationship, and damn anyone who gets in the way, they don't matter?

GilbertMarkham · 27/02/2020 18:36

Yeah Sudoku - funny how the man she's shagging doesn't make his lack of belief in or adherence to the social construct of monogamy clear to his wife.

Otherwise ow wouldn't be an ow.

Likewise I rely do wonder how ow who don't believe in it either behave when they get into a serious relationship .. or do they spend their whole lives with casual partners and as single mums?

TimeForPlentyIn2020 · 27/02/2020 19:10

So it's fine to ignore someone else's social 'rules'/construct on marriage, relationships etc just because you don't want to follow them

Yes, yes I think it is. I would remove the word ‘just’ from the above sentence.

YgritteSnow · 27/02/2020 19:33

I think we are talking at cross purposes @GilbertMarkham. I told you I could see what you meant about monogamy. However the controls we have put in place around monogamy in an attempt to control it, are constructs, of course they are. We created them. Someone thought of them and we all started doing it because it could be fairly effective at keeping our chosen person from straying. I don't see wolves or other animals who mate for life, conducting ceremonies wearing their best bib and tucker, earnestly gazing at each other and swearing to only keep unto each other, obvs being tongue in cheek there. Marriage and the nuclear family and the expectations society has of them and how people should behave in them are social constructs to attempt to force or encourage monogamy, which I do not believe is a natural state for most humans myself.

ShesCurly · 27/02/2020 19:40

Or maybe they just don't believe in the same social construct that you do?

The thing is, that's absolutely fine. But it's not fine to tell your partner that you are ok with the social construct of monogamy, never address the fact you don't believe in it, and indulge in polyamory whilst lying to them and being with other people behind their back?

Some of my friends are poly and that's obviously totally fine. They're also not wankers, so they are only in relationships with people who know they are polyamorous and are happy with that.

It's the lie that is the issue. A partner should have the knowledge to make an informed decision otherwise it's totally unfair.

If you know your partner wouldn't be able to cope with you sleeping with other people, then tell them and let them make an informed decision.

Just don't be a dick and do it behind their back. Seems simple to me.

YgritteSnow · 27/02/2020 19:40

So it's fine to ignore someone else's social 'rules'/construct on marriage, relationships etc just because you don't want to follow them? Because you want to shag someone, even if they are in a relationship, and damn anyone who gets in the way, they don't matter?

Yes it is. As hard as that is to accept. It's up to every individual to police themselves. If you and your husband agree on keeping a monogamous state then on a personal level you'll never have to worry what anyone else is deciding to do. It's not up to any other person to police your husband and keep him in line if he decides to step out of your marriage.

ShesCurly · 27/02/2020 19:42

I'm not sure monogamy is 'natural' biologically but it's what works for me and I would expect a partner to inform me if they felt otherwise.

I could then make an informed decision as to whether to be with them or not, knowing they are sleeping with other people.

I don't know how anyone could think that telling your partner so they can make an informed decision wasn't necessary?

NoMoreDickheads · 27/02/2020 19:46

@Goldfinch432 There is such a thing as severe mental illness unfortunately, episodic or otherwise, and sickos will take advantage of that. That is exploitation.

There are also some very calculating men around, who know how to try and keep getting what they want, by messing with people's psychology. Manipulation.

Coercive control is also a thing, illegal now, and should be prosecuted more often/ the law I think will eventually expand to include more permutations on it, though prosecutions will be rare.

That only has any relevance to one or two of the guys I had experiences with though maybe.

everyone is selfish

I read a bit about the 'shark cage' (women's ability to avoid predatory men.) They describe a continuum that goes:-

selfish > self-care > self-less.

In theory it's usually possible to care for yourself without hurting anyone else much. I imagine this mightn't be the case in some circumstances, but probably could apply to being an OW or having an affair.

Two people might fall in love where one or both of them are married, but they don't have to act on it until both of them are single. Or, someone could leave their marriage before they take any steps into an emotional affair etc.

Sorry if am rambling- bit knackered etc.

OP posts:
thecatneuterer · 27/02/2020 20:05

@Finewithit I think you're spot on in your analysis.

SudokuQueen · 27/02/2020 20:46

Yes it is. As hard as that is to accept. It's up to every individual to police themselves. If you and your husband agree on keeping a monogamous state then on a personal level you'll never have to worry what anyone else is deciding to do. It's not up to any other person to police your husband and keep him in line if he decides to step out of your marriage.

But it's also up to those who want to shag whoever to choose only those who also want a poly relationship surely? If you can bind someone to one social construct, you must bind the others. You should stick to polyamorous people and we will stick to monogamous people.

And that's easy enough to do. If you find a married man who says he is allowed to sleep with other people, check with his wife first. That way, you know what you are getting into. Yeah you will say 'why should I have to', because you want us to stick to a social construct, so you stick to yours.

YgritteSnow · 27/02/2020 21:08

because you want us to stick to a social construct, so you stick to yours

I don't understand why you think this. Which social construct do you think I want you to stick to? I don't want you to do anything. Do what you like 🤷‍♀️

ShesCurly · 27/02/2020 21:18

If only it was a social construct to not do something cruel to other people eh? We can but dream.

There are literally millions of people to fuck in this world. I personally want to fuck one who is such a dick they would only do so in secret while pretending to be monogamous to another person.

Because I don't like fucking people who are selfish pricks and, to be honest, cowardly.

I've had excellent FWBs. If they had an unknowing wife or girlfriend i would have found them unattractive. Again, because I don't fuck people I don't respect. And I don't respect people who want to have their cake and eat it too.

Polyamory is absolutely fine. Shagging people behind a partners back when they think you're monogamous isn't polyamory. It's cheating. And it's childish and cowardly 🤷🏻‍♀️

ShesCurly · 27/02/2020 21:20

Worst typo 😂

There are literally millions of people to fuck in this world. I personally WOULDN'T want to fuck one who is such a dick they would only do so in secret while pretending to be monogamous to another person.

WineInTheSun · 27/02/2020 21:50

Oh my gosh, this is me!! I’m 24 and never had a real boyfriend- always flings or been the OW. Repeatedly, especially with older married colleagues who are very respected in their field.

Single men my own age don’t ask me out! No idea why, but they don’t. For married men I seem to be a flashing beacon!

I hold my hands up and admit I am insecure with very low self esteem. There is a clear pattern of only married men approach me.
I realise I will be flames for this and should don my hard hat!

AnyFucker · 27/02/2020 21:53

Wine let me introduce you to a novel concept...it's called free will

Nobody forces you to fuck unsuitable men.

ShesCurly · 27/02/2020 21:56

I think you need to take some accountability.

I don't know how to say this LOTR gently but one of my friends always says only married men approach her. But throughout our lives, married men approach many of us - it's just some people indulge it and some people don't.

I'm not saying you're the same but my friend seems to think she is unique in this irresistible charm. But I could have had dozens of affairs during my career, as could almost all of my colleagues, and I don't think I'm that special!

It's free will - you either engage in that behaviour or you don't.

You don't sound like it's making you happy so why not take control, work on yourself through counselling and aim higher than being someone's secret?

You're so young. If your self esteem is low now as you say it is, that's only going to get worse the longer you keep doing what you're doing.

ShesCurly · 27/02/2020 21:57

Sorry that post just now was to @wineinthesun

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