But why WOULD you get married? Its just a bit of paper, surely?

[fillyjonk]

Why does a day out in a frou frou frock and a bit of paper mean so much to people?

For me what is important is the
relationship, which is what you work at day to day.

I know there are some legal/financial implications to not getting married, though some of these CAN be overcome, and others are overplayed. But anyway, I am not getting the impression that they are a big deal for most people.

Am curious here, no criticism meant...

Have just read through the 'Who does the clearning?' questions, and I must say, all of the answers (except the last one obviously) are ME. However, if we weren't actually married, I don't think any of that would be any different. He goes out to work, I do the things around the house. Yes, it sounds like a long list, but it fills my day in the same way that his job fills his.

I think the thing about marriage is that it makes you stick with it and make more of an effort. If we weren't married we probably wouldn't still be together - and I see that as a good thing.

The follow ing was true when dh was well. Now he is ill I do somewhat more. When he dies and I am single again, I will do it all, with the exception fo the stuff that the cleaning lady (bless her!!!) does

Who does the cleaning? Cleaning lady
Who does the laundry? dh
Who does the washing? dh
Who dresses the children? they dress themselves, I used to
Who raises the children? We both do
Who runs the social calendar? I do
Who buys the birthday cards? I do (a minor task as mate suns a phoenix card thingie)
Who makes the lunchboxes? N/a
Who packs for the holiday? Dh does his, I do the rest
Who cleans the toilet? Cleaning Lady
Who mops the floors? Cleaning lady
Who hoovers? Cleaning lady
Who irons the school uniform? Cleaning lady/ dh
Who organises the dentist appointments? me
Who arranges the nice big wedding party and the nice big christening party me, but this was so long ago I don't think it is relevant!

and WHO - this is the trick question - gets the nice career and pension? We both do, and when dh dies I get his pension too

And then there are the other house hold tasks that were left off the list

Who sorts the car tax/ MOT/ Insurance Break down cover Dh

Who does the garden Dh

Who does the DIY Me

Who does the cooking me

Who sorts the 'logistical' packing for the holdays....getting roof box sorted/ packing car etc dh

Who does food shopping me

Who does the finacial paperwork dh

Who takes the kids to school shared

I'd say that we are fairly well split, and remember that I choose to work part time and dh works full time.

When I am single again, I'll cop for the lot. I don't see what advantage that will be

Just read the "who does the cleaning?" questions and the answers are pretty much "me".

however, the answer to "who gets the nice career and pension?" is also "me".

Dh has to work longer and harder than I do. I work part-time, but have a great career (final salary pension) and have found it easier to get promoted. The fact that I have more time on my hands to do the crap doesn't in anyway mean that DH has an easier life.

This whole "who cleans to loo, who buys the birthday cards" business is really about equality, isn't it? With the implication that the husband is the big boss man who goes off to work in the morning and swans around all day being important and purposeful whils the wfe at home does all those menial tasks that enable the husband to carry on being successful.

Well regardless of who does what in our household (ands it is pretty split, although not quite down the middle!) I must say that the key thing for me is attitude. Dh always says that in our household he sees me as the queen bee and himself as a worker bee, and that the work he does is serving me and the dc by providing the money we need to buy food / whatever. So for him it's not about him having a great career for his own selfish sake, it's about the family having needs and him doing his best to meet those needs (which has actually meant him not taking a promotion a while ago because it'd have meant that he wouldn't have seen the dc at all in the weekdays, and dh would rather have time with them every day than an extra however many £K.)

So IMO if you have the foundation of respect, equality, love, all this squabbling about how cleans the loo is a bit petty. If however who cleans the loo is a sign of inequality, disrepect and a loveless marriage then of course it's an issue.

And who does the cleaning and all of that when one of you falls ill and/or becomes disabled?

I mean, can you really live your life by a list like that?

That seems so immature. I mean, my 4-year-old thinks that way.

Who keeps track like that all the time?

I mean, I can see if it becomes completely skewed for no good reason, but hey, if you let that happen, isn't some of the blame yours?

What a way to live.

I love being amrried and DHa nd I were very keen to be married, once the itme was right. For us, it was the right thing to do.

There are several finalcial and legal reasons why being married is very useful. Yorkiegirl's thread from last year highlighted many of these. The fact that YG was married certainly made life easier for her last year I believe.

There are some (I think 3 IIRR) differences between a civil partnership and a register office marriage - for example, a civil partnership does not need to be consumated. But there is very little difference, other than the wording in reality. Civil partnerships were only brought out to allow same sex couples to be "married" and to access the same legal and financial stuff as opposite sex marriages.

Oh, and my marriage means way more to be than a piece of paper - far more!

Well you don't necessarily keep track, but when asked those questions they are easy too answer as you know you either do the things or you don't. It isn't cut and dried, though, because one or other of us might end up doing one of the other's jobs in order to help them out or something.

When I was ill last year and into this year and part of 2005, DH did all the jobs, went to work f/t, looked after our horses and other animals and looked after me. I studied at university and worked but even gave up work because I wasn't coping. People call him a 'new man', but wtf? He's just normal and loves his wife, surely?

Who does the cleaning? we both do, although I do a bit more as I work PT and DH works FT.

Who does the laundry? we both put loads in the washer/dryer; DH does the ironing

Who does the washing? (you mean dishes?) The dishwasher - we both load/unload

Who dresses the children? she does it herself generally; in past depends who was around at the time

Who raises the children? Both of us

Who runs the social calendar? I do - but DH contributes by emailing me dates, etc to put on it

Who buys the birthday cards? I do generally, although for last monute ones I remend DH and he nips to shops in lunch hour

Who makes the lunchboxes? Noone

Who packs for the holiday? I do most of it (my choice) but DH gets the stuff ironed, and then his stuff out onto bed for me

Who cleans the toilet? both of us

Who mops the floors? generally me as I do it on a day off when noone around to walk on it

Who hoovers? both of us

Who irons the school uniform? DH does all ironing

Who organises the dentist appointments? I arrange mine and DDs (as she comes with me after school normally); Dh sorts his own

Who arranges the nice big wedding party and the nice big christening party me, but this was so long ago I don't think it is relevant! - me, through own choice but with DH's agreement and contributions

Who sorts the car tax/ MOT/ Insurance Break down cover - generally DH but I might google for quotes if he is busy

Who does the garden - DH does the lawn and weeding; I hate it!

Who does the DIY - usually me

Who does the cooking - I do 95% of time, I like cooking; Dh normally clears away and loads dishwasher afterwards

Who sorts the 'logistical' packing for the holdays....getting roof box sorted/ packing car etc - dh

Who does food shopping - me, big shop online and then little bits from elsewhere

Who does the finacial paperwork - dh

Who takes the kids to school - DH does morning on way to work; I do pick up

and WHO - this is the trick question - gets the nice career and pension? originally both of us has own careers. Dh still does and a nice pension plan too. I chose myself to go to PT and to move jobs later on after having DD. I do have a pension through work. But I have never been career motivtaed, prefer my role as a mum. DH loves his career choice. So we are both doing what we both want to do.

It better mean more than a piece of paper cause I've lost my marriage certificate

I think the point is, we're not all big-knicker-wearing Bridget Joneses always searching for the next marriage material; some of us didn't get married because it was what everyone does and it was a fairytale and we wanted to subdue to men. Some of us married because we genuinely loved our partners and wanted to commit to them in that way. Not everyone sees the need for marriage for committment, but what is wrong of those who do?

I got married because I left my job to move abroad with my partner. In fact I was thinking of the "for worse" scenarios - what if he is seriously ill in hospital and I have no say over what happens to him because I'm not next of kin, what if he dies in the course of his job and I'm not a consideration because I'm only his - what girlfriend/partner/mother of his children. If he dies I have to pay inheritance tax on our joint assets. Everything is just much easier in law if you are a wife rather than whatever the other thing is (not even very easy to define yourself!) It's interesting that since civil partnerships have been brought in for gay couples there has been a rumbling in some quarters that the same system ought to apply to heterosexuals - since no matter how long a man and woman have lived together and no matter how many kids they have they still have no more rights than two people who have just met and live apart. Don't these people realise that that option already exists - it's called marriage. I think your question is the wrong way round fillyjonk - if a couple want to be with each other for the rest of their lives why wouldn't they get married? It's great that you work on your relationship everyday, but what are you going to do when you get a phone call to tell you your partner has being involved in a serious accident and they won't let you in to see him because you're not next-of-kin and when they finally switch off the life support machine (which you have no say in either for the same reasons) you are not entitled to a share of his pension even though you've given up your own job to raise his children. Not very romantic - and absolutely nothing to do with wearing a white dress.

It's just a bit of paper? Yeah, and so are the title deeds to my house.

I asked dh the other night why he wanted to marry me, and he sad 'because I love you very much'. Simple as that. Plus we wanted kids, and wanted a stable, legal, loving framework for them to be bought up in. The stats are very much in favour of families where the mum and dad are married. I'd have been very annoyed d hurt if dh had been happy to live with me, buy a house with me, have kids with me - but not marry me. Wh not, for pete's sake?

Agree with earlier posts - a wedding is not a marriage, it's what happens after the wedding that's important.

I think it's a bit disingenious to say that it's easy to get married without it being more than a legal contract. We got married a while back after 12 years cohabiting, we really didn't want to but did it for similar reasons to Morningpaper - just in case one of us died, basically.

So we booked the registry office, told them we just wanted the mininum necessary, went along with our two witnesses. And the registry office people had real trouble coping with us. We said we just wanted to do the minimum, get the forms, that's all. And the registrar woman got really snotty with us. First they wouldn't believe we were the bride and groom because we weren't dressed up at all. Then she told us firmly that she always inserted extra promises beyond the legal minimum, stuff about loving and commitment. "No", we said, "we just want the legal minimum". She was upset by that but had to agree. So then we had the "ceremony". She kept glowering at us as if we were a group of naughty children not taking it seriously. Which was totally out of order, I think, we'd been very explicit about our reasons for getting married as just being about the legal issues.

And then at the end she said "now you may kiss". "No thanks", we said. as in our opinion love and commitment and kissing are personal things and not things we do when permitted by an outside body. And that was it. But it definitely wasn't "just a piece of paper" to the people in the registry office. Not at all. Even though it was to us.

Sorry fillyjonk - just read whole thread and realise you are married. Why did you bother?

Fennel, they were extremely unprofessional and if I were you I would complain in writing.

Their job it to marry people according to the legal requirements, not make judgement calls about a couples' level of commitment to each other.

I did wonder about making an official complaint. But really we just wanted to forget the whole thing so we stashed the piece of paper in the filing cabinet and try and pretend it didn't happen.

They're civil servants, not ministers.

We ambled along nicely not giving a toss about marriage until our son came along. Then it suddenly felt important to both of us to be married. The legal and financial aspect of it was a big factor, as was the desire to make a public commitment to each other. We had a tiny, inexpensive wedding - just a trip to the reg office and a meal afterwards. The 'wedding' wasn't what it was about at all. To be honest, yes you can draw up legal agreements that give you similar rights to a married couple and you can even have an alternative party or ceremony to celebrate your love publicly...but its a lot easier to just get married, isn't it?

p.s. Fennel - what bastards. Our registry office wedding couldn't have been nicer and more straight forward. We had the witnesses and two other guests, the basic vows and that was that. It was over in 20 minutes, and the registrars were lovely. Hope you complained.

Fennel, that sounds horrible, the registrar sounds really unpleasant.
If I remember correctly, registrars do have a legal commitment to report marriages which they feel may be occuring purely for immigration purposes. So in a way they do have to make judgement calls about a couples level of commitment. Not that I'm excusing her behaviour, but I think marriages for immigration purposes are quite common in some areas, so the registrars may be geared up for assessing if it all looks legitamate.
You would think she would have enough sense to see that wasn't the case with you though, fennel.

Well, yes, Thursday, but c'mon, if two British people present themselves to apply to marry each other it's hardly for immigration purposes. A twit could figure that out. I mean, you do have to show ID to apply for the license.

Not excusing her behaviour, I agreed it was crap
I have no idea if Fennel and her DH are from the UK, registrar was sill obnoxious either way
Was just pointing out that the registrars do have to make some judgements
Does not mean they should behave in a judgemental fashion

We are both from the UK, yes. I told them we'd been together 12 years, had 3 children and wanted to marry for legal reasons. But she was definitely suspicious of us.

But that's my point, our approach, which is the one often suggested on Mumsnet for those of us who have no urge to get married - just nip into the registry office and do it - was seen as suspicious and inappropriate.

She needs complained about. Because if you are both from the UK and explained you wished to be married for legal reasons then she overstepped the boundaries of professionalism by a) treating you with suspicion b) insisting on inserting her own value judgements on the law, which is what you said you wanted to comply with and that's it.

If you suit all the requirements for marriage and are not doing so for immigration reasons then it's her job to marry you, not push her own ideals on you.