DP won't marry me....

[LittleBows]

My dp and I have been together a number of years and are expecting our first. We have discussed getting married in the past and he assured me he definately wanted to when the time was right.

Six months ago we were having a barney about something else but the topic came up. He actually said he had been planning a proposal that very weekend, but I'd gone and "ruined" it by arguing. It's fair to say that since then I have been expecting a proposal, but no joy.

Last night I probed the topic further and eventually found the real reason why he hasn't ever asked me (even though everything is in the right place) and it turns out the bottom line is he is worried that if we get divorced I will take half of his assets. He has various assets to his name whereas I don't. He has never ever hinted at this before in all our conversations and I feel very misled as he's had endless opportunity to tell me. Like many men, he's awful as discussions and even worse at decision making. He ponders 5 mins over whether to have orange or apple juice .

I think he knows whilst although it may make sense to him to protect his stuff, it's hardly romantic for me to hear and also, what can I do about it? I can't suddenly produce assets to match his. Needless to say I was crying into the pillow last night. I felt terrible, such a failure and if only I too had a top-paying job and a flash car etc etc. I wondered if anyone else has encountered this and how the heck it can be resolved?!

Gotta go - he's back. Thanks for your advice xx

Sorry to hear that you are having a tough time with the pregnancy LB. It must be very stressful to be in the situation you are in but I'm sure you have the strength within you to turn it around for you and your future child and to get at least some of the security you need.

Just to add, if he gives you any kind of a hard time about you being hard-headed about your financial situation just quietly remind him that you need to look after your own interests in exactly the same way as he looks after his. For you I think that means your own advice and representation from your own solicitor. He sounds like a slippery customer, but even if he turns out not to be it's better to plan for the worst whilst hoping for the best.

See a lawyer.

You need to know what the financial position would be. Not the emotional self esteem stuff but what the law says about you and him and your child and the assets.

I echo the comment made by the poster who told you bluntly to stop thinking about proposals and think about the relationship.

And tell him to stop teasing you with hints about marriage and rings. Tell him that you're a grown woman about to have a baby and you don't need to be bothered with nonsense right now. If he wants to play games, he can get out the Monopoly board.

I agree NKF, it's completely wrong to mess around with someone's emotions like that particularly the mother of your future child.

Personally, I think the red flag was "when the time was right." What was he waiting for? It sounds as if he never really wanted to get married. I suppose there are men who are dragged, kicking and screaming into marriage. Do you want that? I think you should concentrate on having a healthy pregnancy and sorting (in your mind) what the financial implciations of having his child are. This is no time to be worrying about rings and place settings. Good luck.

At the moment he's getting all the benefits of a marriage - a loving partner and a child on the way with none of the responsibilities or risks.

eliz is right

sort out the house deeds asap

if he is not happy to do this now then i think you really need to take stock

if he is, then i think that does show commitment

trying to be positive, i think pregnancy is a time to take stock and think about finances so it is natural that you are both doing this - perhaps not in the most considered way but pregnancy can be shocking and maybe he is coming to terms with it in a very clumsy way?

on the self worth thing - my dp earns far more than me and always contributed more to the mortgage - this can be reflected in the mortgage/ownership contract

hope it all works out x

Actually LittleBows, Elizabetth's suggestion to propose is an excellent one. It doesn't at all give him the upper hand. It would quite firmly take control back from him. I imagine he'd be shocked.

For seemingly years he's been using this wedding malarkey as a way of keeping you under his thumb - he's basically managed to get you living in his house, paying his mortgage, agreeing that you're not good enough, pregnant with his child, and even after finding out that he values his assets more than you or your baby you are STILL on here wondering about whether or not he's going to propose.

As for "making yourself look desperate and that's not attractive"?

jesus h. christ.

I'll tell you what makes you look desperate:

• waiting around desperately for years for him to propose
• moving into his house and paying his mortgage without being put on the deeds
• getting pregnant before getting married, even though you wanted to get married first
• getting angry with yourself for "blowing your chance" at a proposal
• getting excited every time there is an event that this night might be the night - do you really think he doesn't know that's what's going on? I'm sure he LOVES it
• hearing that he won't marry you because he doesn't want you or his child to get any of his money if/when your relationship breaks up and sticking around STILL hoping for a goddamn proposal

At least proposing to him would involve actually taking control of the situation. If he says no (which I bet he would) at least you know where you stand and you can stop hanging about waiting for his charity.

Just curious, as his parent's opinion of you seems to matter so much....did either of them 'marry up' or 'marry down' when they were wed? And if you are convinced part of the problem is that you don't earn enough with your current job - did his Mum work outside the home, and was/is her career a prestigious/lucrative one?

Now that you've seen this side of him (and sadly it doesn't appear to be 'just a blip'), are you still so sure you want to marry him if he asks?

Am getting frustrated with doormattiness, LB.

You know, you are colluding in all his bad behaviours. You are really. Please don't, you are worth more

Point out to him that if you aren't married, he can only put his name on the birth cert. if you let him. Committment cuts both ways. Does he actually want to be around to bring this child up? Does he really want you to split up NOW because he's being such a selfish arse? Does he want to be a Sunday dad, only seeing his child during 'contact' times?

Never mind sharing his assets with you, most important point is he is about to have a child. He made the child, he is now responsible for that child for the rest of his life. Financially, emotionally and in all other ways. If he wanted to be a Scrooge, living alone with his moneybags, he shouldn't have tricked you into a relationship and shouldn't have made a baby.

Cross-posted with Skidoodle, excellent post.

Get evidence that you've paid the mortgage btw. And point out to him that you already have a claim on the house as you have been paying his bloody mortgage.

Tosser.

Sobernow: while it's great that it turned out well for you, was your DH (prior to marriage) into these sort of 'I'll only propose if you can make me think you deserve it' bullying games, or was he just a chap who said he didn't want to get married, thanks.
Because the more I read about LB's situation, the more I think she's hooked up with a nasty abusive bully rather than someone who's just a bit commitment-shy.

Ummmm, I know that money is important and I can kind of understand where he is coming from, kind of.

But.............WHAT CENTURY ARE WE LIVING IN HERE????????

This is the 21st Century not the 18th. Marrying up and down??? You are equals. He just has more money than you do, you , it would seem have the ability to love which he appears to lack, or if he does love you then he doesn't respect you enough to be honest with you and not play demoralsing games.

If I were you I would call his bluff. Tell him he drops all this crap and agrees to marry you or you will move on, no one's getting any younger here and you need a man you can rely on for things other than money.
If he says no then move on, if he says yes tell him this is real life and he knows what marriage entails. You expect him to live up to that or again, you move on.

You need to talk, and demand his respect, not wait around endlessly, as was rather brutally (tho honestly) pointed out earlier. Who the hell does he think he is anyway. He may have money but he doesn't soound like the catch of the century IMHO. And just remember if you marry him you will have to live with his mother who sounds like your basic nightmare MIL

Hi LittleBows, jeepers just reread my last post and sorry for being so brutal. I don't think the message was wrong but the delivery left a lot to be desired.

I feel bad because I think Madamez is right, and you've had years of a relationship with a bully and the last thing you should have to deal with here is more harsh words. So my sincerest apologies.

It was probably totally counterproductive too, as I'm also guessing from what you've written about your mother that you are very resistant to anyone criticising your partner and just block them out.

I guess my shock from your last post came from the fact that you are now pregnant and about to bring a child into a situation without security and you still think it matters who proposes to whom and whether you look desperate. This is SO much more serious than that. This isn't school.

I'm pg too right now, a little further along than you (14 weeks) so I really feel for you as I feel really dependent on DH right now and I'm not entirely comfortable with that yet. I can't imagine how scary I would find the whole thing if I were in a situation with a man who clearly didn't have my child's and my best interests at heart.

Please, please try to get some clear perspective on this. Try to think about it with as logical a head as possible: what can you do to regain control of your own life - the life you will eventually share with your baby (either with or without this man depending on how he reacts)?

as newgirl says, pregnancy is a natural time to take stock financially, and in your case to take stock of all the implications of your financial situation for you and your baby and use the next 8 months or so to set things up in a way that will create a stable home for you both.

God, why do some men have this attitude? It stinks.
Agree with everyone who says he needs to understand that by having a child he's already entered into a lifetime commitment and that actually not wanting to share his 'assets' is a vile and selfish attitude.

Btw women who are SAHMs/at home with children and babies for a time are in a terrible position financially if you split up, no financial rights at all. Get your name on the deeds NOW at the very least.

i know you have your heart set on getting married as i did with my partner but he too has come up with many escuses we didin't get on well enough not right time ect

i think they have the fear of actually taking the plunge and i have found without the stresses of talking about marraige we get on so much better i thought it would be idyllic as i was having our dc who is now 2.4 but now i feel we are commited and we ;love each other we dont need to be married i would still love to of course and am always told we will one day and this is the man who asked me every day for 6 mths then he fell out of lust i suppose lol

but dont upset yourself and dont take it personally i too worry now if we were to marry what if we divorced because not all but alot of people dont take marraige as a serious thing and alot more couples are opting to stay living together you can still get a formal contract as such so if you were to break up it would be treated similar to married couple maybe you want to read into that

but in mean time dont keep bringing up marraige i know from experience i spent to long crying not feeling good enough but if they are afraid they have to do it when it feels right to them it doesnt mean they dont love you they are still fully commited they just need to do it when time is right for them

i'm still waiting but not thinking of it all the time i'm much happier knowing we love each other we are commited and were happy what more could you want sometimes marraige can change that,
good luck

just sit together and have heart to heart tell him why you find it so important to be married and how it makes you feel not good when he can only think of what he might lose if you divorce and find out real reason why he dont want to marry took a few times for my dp to crack but at least now i know its not me

I really feel for you. I agree you need to get your name on the deeds as soon as possible. And you need to strat being much more assertive. I know I slipped over the years into being too nice, too accomodating, too much of a doormat, without knowing it, an accomplice to my dh's bad behaviour. Did he love me more for being to 'nice ' to him? Did I get unwavering love and devotion for always putting him first? No. He had an affair. ANd me, a sahm with no financial security and no firends in a foreign country. Not a good position to be in.

You are pregnant, and unfortunately his curel mind games and selfishness are making it all seem scary instead of wonderful. I honestly believe that he would treat you better if you started being more assertive, less accomodating and start calling the shots. So re house deeds, I thinkit'd also be important how you phrased it. Something like telling him that this talk, where he admitted he wans to hold onto his assest has opened your eyes. You WANT your name on the deeds now, you're consulting a solicitor to find out exactly where you stand & what your rights are.

I really think he'll think of you differently if you start standing up to him. I am amazed at how bloody nice I was to my dh, but ultimately while it made his life lovely and comfy, he didn't respect me for it. Now, in a strange was, thanks to his affair, and the gently bullying from wonderful mumsnetters, I'm starting to grow my own testicles. It's still hard, but something I wish I'd learnt, realised & understood at the beginning of parenthood, and not had to go through all this to find out.

WHile you have had a rude awakening, the good in the situation is that you've learnt this important lesson now, when you can still turn things around or do something about it.

And start calling the shots and let him know how important and strong YOU are. Best luck xx

i didn't read all thread when i wrote my reply sorry his behaviour is cruel but my dp also went through a stage of making me feel iot was my fault its so they once again dont have to admit responsibility for there actions

i felt so sad for such a long time he asked me to marry him every day and i said we'd wait 6 mths he done this then i got pregnant was planned but happened sooner than we expected then he stopped asking me and then any time i bought it up he'd start a fight and then say he knew i'd be like that and it would end that way this was every time then the exscuses came in i still think he'll nver ask me but now i think if 2 people were to amrry it shouldn't be such hard work

we are happy together besides the marraige we do love each other and our son i think he has a genuine fearf of being married although he is 100% commited to me i try to understand though as we are in this together and shouldn't be about what i want he still thinks one day we will although you can never talk about it so i doubt it.

talk to your dp ask him how he feels about you ask him real reason if it is house and money then his thoughts are pretty shallow as my dp had already said i could have place as i have baby

difficult situation and i do feel for you but you both need to have a heart to heart i'm glad i done it as now i dont feel i'm to blame and also dot feel the importance to be married i'm happy that he loves me and is commited to me and that will do for now, besides i dont want to be legally bound to someone who isn't 100% sure about marrying me we'll take one day at a time and see where we end up marraige shouldn't be this hard it should just happen easily so i'll wait and see how e get on later on it obviously means something is missing but we are happy as we are so i'm happy.

And fingers crossed if you start to stand up to him and get his respect, his family will start to respect you too. Maybe they like this other girl (Camilla) because she wouldn't take any crap from him? Perhaps they can see that your relationship is a power imbalance and, although they wouldn't tell him off for turning you into a doormat, they can see that it's not a good way to live.