Surreal dinner with exH and OW

[Legallybleachblonde]

I don't even know if this is the right place to post but I've just had a really surreal evening and I don't know how to feel about it. My exH (we split three years ago) is now living with the OW he left me for. I suppose I shouldn't really refer to her as that now as it's been quite some time. I was devastated when we split (so were my family) and it's taken quite a while to recover but we get on okay now, mainly for the sake of our DS5. I went to his house tonight to collect my DS but they were only just sitting down to dinner (ExH, the OW/gf, my DS and her DD). He welcomed me in and offered me dinner as there was plenty and I politely declined but in I went and sat down (feeling a bit awkward) at the dinner table. OW offered me a cup of tea so I said okay, thank you. So there we were, all sat round the table chatting away like nothing bad had ever happened. It just felt so weird and it's hard to explain but I felt like I was betraying myself, if that makes sense? ExH was pretty ruthless when we split and didn't treat me that well - he's selfish and has zero empathy. We had to sell our family home as I couldn't afford to take it on and my DS and I ended up in a flat. ExH moved in with OW almost immediately into her 4 bed house and since then his career has rocketed and he's quite well off. I have a lovely flat and work life balance but money is tight and at 49, I'm having to claim tax credits for the first time in my life. Part of me tonight wanted to grab my son and just run for it but I just sat there as if nothing had happened. Can't really explain it. I still have some feelings for him because even though he is not a nice man I adored him when we were married and he's my little boy's Dad. It just all felt like a weird dream tonight and that I was watching myself. But it wasn't a dream; it was real. Do you think I should be bearing a grudge still or do you think it's commendable that I have kept my dignity? Everything I do is for my little boy - if he's happy so am I. How do others in my situation get on with the OW?

Definitely commendable you have kept your dignity!

Well done and I'm sure your DS appreciates it

I think maybe there is a lot of emotion mixed up in your head op, which is understandable.

She's not just his girlfriend, they live together and are effectively raising a blended family. She will be jointly and sometimes solely caring for your son when he is there. She is acting in the role of step parent.

It doesn't matter, and I mean this really gently, that you see her as nothing more than a girlfriend, who is fairly irrelevant, what's important is what she actually is.

During his contact time he gets to do as he pleases with his son, he has equal rights to you in this, and if he deems it's better for him to be with her and the other kids for thr day, then it's difficult for you to say no it's granny or no one. It's drawing up the battle lines.

I agree you don't need to sit and have dinner with them, make small talk, but there is times where maybe allowing your son to do something will be better for him, other than the thought of it, you will not be involved during the time he is with her.

He is clearly trying to ensure his son is included and feels part of the family, it may be better for your son to allow that, no matter how hard that is for you.

I hate to say this, but I agree with @Bluntness100 on this point.

Great posts SirChing (great name too!), you’ve summed it up brilliantly. When OP said her ex told her he wanted to split up whilst their son was in the room, I was pondering what kind of person does that.

Whether he’s a narc, cunt or bell end, maybe all three, agree with maintaining superficial friendliness, it’s in your interests OP but you’re right to be wary.

It’s incredibly impressive how you’ve dealt with your emotions and got yourself to the point of not having ill feeling. It sounds like you’ve got the ability to be more detached in your assessment of the situation. When someone is still really hurt and angry with how they’ve been treated, it’s harder for them to be objective but your spidey sense and instincts seem to be spot on. Don’t trust your ex’s intentions but don’t alienate him either.

It’s clear you have your son’s best interests totally at heart but you may also have to accept that if Wednesday is your son’s day with his father then it’s for your ex to decide how he manages it and he doesn’t need your permission. He’s involving you which is positive but if you start to become (in his eyes) obstructive in relation to his days, your ex will stop involving you.

Re half term, maybe encourage your son seeing ex’s mum but don’t show you object to the GF taking him out. Ultimately unless you have real concerns about his safety and well being, you may need to accept that your son will end up being taken out with the girlfriend if not at half term at other times. Developing an independent relationship with her may be in your interests in the long run. Your ex may think he’s “won” in creating a blended family but your motivation is your son’s well being, your self preservation and maintaining control, not your ex’s happiness. So even if the outcome is the same outwardly, inwardly you can reconcile your actions.

You’re amazing OP as others have said. Really hope you can find someone to move on with too. Wonder how happy your ex will be to blend with another possible father figure. Sowing the seeds now for how you would want a future partner treated would also be a good outcome for you and your son in the long run too.

@Bluntness100 Yep, seems we think alike on this. It might not be popular, or easy for OP to cope with, but it is true.

OP, I don't know if this might feel like too much for you, but when I got a new fella after ex and I split up, ex agreed to sit down with me and say to DD that she must never feel that she is being disloyal by liking my (then) bloke. That it's ok for her to love them both. And that it was another adult in her parenting team to love her. She accepted that, and I can't thank ex enough for agreeing to that. He didn't do it for me. He did it for DD. To make it easy for her. Would anything like that ever be a possibility one day, do you think?

Absolutely agree with Sir.

I completely agree with everything Bluntness and SirChing have said on this thread. Excellent advice.

You may have a point. But in that case, OP is entitled to aske ex directly: are you telling me that's what's happening on Wed or are you asking me? It's a fair question, i think. Nobody on this thread is in any doubt that OP is saint and putting son first. This does not mean that if she is feeling manipulated, she can't (politely) get some clarity. You are a stunning example of magnanimous behaviour. I am in awe!

Listen to your gut.

It was screaming at you that you were doing impression management for them.

You dissociated because of the stress (gut saying boundaries/beign polite for their sake)

Next time have better boundaries. They fucked you over and that is not acceptable. No, you don't have to make a scene, but you don't have to be friendly and act like nothing happened, to people who fucked you over (and that sounds financially, as well).

But in that case, OP is entitled to aske ex directly: are you telling me that's what's happening on Wed or are you asking me?

That is a really good point. Irrespective of his answer, there is no harm in saying "do you think DS will be ok spending all that time with OW? Not from a safety aspect but will he settle for her and not play her up? Do they spend much time together, just the two of them?".

It raises concerns but in a way that sounds like you are looking out for OW. Which is much less likely to cause any animosity. As it's up to him who he leaves DS with, all you can do is hint that it may well all go to shit on the day with OW. You look caring AND get your point across.

You dissociated because of the stress (gut saying boundaries/beign polite for their sake)

Is this the same as being weirded out? I have never known someone dissociate for such a short space of time before. I thought dissociation tended to be something which ran concurrent to other MH problems such as PTSD and DPD. Rather than feeling discombobulated in a particular situation.

OP, it would be weird if you DIDN'T find the situation odd. It's one that you didn't expect to find yourself in, and being weirded out is a perfectly normal response to finding yourself drinking tea with your ex and the OW. It would have felt weird because it IS weird. Doesn't mean its inherently bad though. Otherwise we would all be "dissociating" every single time we left our comfort zone

I am again wary of people diagnosing "dissociative" states over the internet.

Op you are such a strong woman. I have so much admiration for how you have handled things so far.

Bluntness and sir ching have given good advice, although hard advice.

Thank you for all the messages - I really appreciate it. Boy! You lot get the old brain ticking and I like it! I've taken everything you say on board. I saw Ex today (on my turf!) and asked him again about half term Wednesday. Basically, he's not asked his Mum at all if she can have DS. He's fallen out with his parents (which I know about) so I can only assume he feels awkward in asking. He said he needs to work from home that day and his gf (see, I have progressed from OW!) is going to take the kids out for a couple of hours, with her sister. My DS knows all these people very well and tells me all about them. Based on the fact my son is comfortable with them (they've been on several family holidays), that it's only for 2 or 3 hours and that ex is at home so is close by if needed, I feel a bit better about it and I have said it will be ok. I don't want to say no out of sheer bloody mindedness and I suppose I have to accept that 'she' is going to be in DS's life for the foreseeable future. This is all so hard but I'm trying to do the right thing. Thanks again everyone for steering me through this minefield!

OP, you are a star! It will be fine. And when your DS is a teenager and being difficult, as OW will have been through it with her DD, you can send your son round there for the benefit of her "experience" whilst you hide with a bottle of wine and snigger

Though how they got together was crap, your DS having more adults in his life who love him is a good thing. And at least she isn't trying to avoid DS like so many new partners do.

Your DS will thank you when he is older. You are a fab mum

Well done op, I can't imagine that was easy at all, but taking the high road for your sons sake is something you will reap the rewards of later 💐

@SirChing she told us she dissociated sitting at the table.

Dissociation is caused by stress.

No rocket science here.

She was being required to be nice to two people who fucked her over and permanently rearranged her life ---> downwards income wise.

The healthy reaction to that is anger. So of course she found it stressful to do image management for the pair of them.

Don't ever put yourself through that again eh. Your gut was telling you it was off. Yy you handled it so well - bravo you wonderful woman - but you can't be passive with someone like him, you have to be on high alert because he'll be constantly weaving some kind of web.

I'm not saying you were passive - you were caught on the hop - but this experience gives you more skills for the future. Which is how it is with these types.

I see there's a barc specialist on here who is the font of all knowledge on barc. I'd not go too far down the road with that iiwy. But you and I know we have to manage personalities like this, we can never entirely rest. I had a good 20 years of managing someone like this (xh) - they never let up, its who they are.

To that end I would keep an eye on how much he forces ds to support his manipulations. He uses everybody, remember, they're all walk-ons in his play.

Lord of the Manor? Pahahaha. He is so ridiculous. I think he told you about his salary/promotion bcs he was crowing. Yuk.

He was also probably getting off on sitting with 2 women who utterly adore/d him. He probably thinks you'd have him back in a flash. Idiot!

I think he does think that @springydaff. Truth is, since he's been gone, I've had a couple of relationships which were physically and emotionally on another level. And by that I mean a hundred times better. Ex was not affectionate and I realised what I had been missing out on. Torturous at times.

she told us she dissociated sitting at the table.

Feeling a bit odd isn’t dissociation.

This thread is fascinating despite a seemingly simple thing to do. However bring someone who in manipulative and narcissistic into the mix and it adds whole new meaning to something that should be so simple.

I’ve been in many similar situations with my ex. It’s purely image management “hey look we’re all friends, my cheating is excused because everyone is happy” and triangulation to make your ex centre of attention.

It was only after therapy and being told about narcissistic traits did I realise what was happening in these situations.

Don’t feel bad about setting boundaries, if a situation arises and your gut is telling you something is off, be polite and simply decline, he probably caught you off you guard when he invited you to join him. You need to trust your gut, you sound lovely and went along with this whole situation because your a good person.

I have done a bit of reading on NPD since I started this thread and whether my ex is a narcissist or not is something I'm not qualified to say but, he certainly has very similar traits. Empathy in particular is something I believe he doesn't possess, not just lacks. I have seen this over the years but particularly so when we split. Ok, so he didnt love me anymore; this happens to people every day. But it was as though he found my tears tiresome (I'm referring to my reactions in the very early days of the break up) and he just looked at me blankly and said 'I can't feel something I don't'. Interestingly, his now gf has just suffered a bereavement and when I asked him if she was ok his response was 'I suppose so, it's nothing to do with me'. Odd reaction I thought when someone you supposedly love has been deeply hurt by something. Anyway, I've gone off piste a bit! I see Renard75 has started a narc thread which is fascinating to read. People can be very complicated!

Ah, the barc expert, teaching us all.

It's good to find out about it though. It's fascinating to begin with but you can get a bit mired in their horrible, cold, manipulative worldview. So watch out for that. Make sure you remember to balance it out by remembering the good in the world, if which there is plenty - overflowing, in fact.

When I grow up, I want to be just like you @Legallybleachblonde

Your graciousness and dignity is inspiring. What a lucky little boy you have, you’ll make him so proud

Thank you @silenceisnotgolden. That's all I want 😊