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Original poster

Sibling, elderly mother and money

316 replies

needtonamechange1000 · 27/01/2020 15:40

I really need some perspective but will try to keep this brief.

My elderly mother has had a life changing/limiting illness and the outcome has been that she has moved in with us (dh and 2 young dc).
This is far from ideal as she needs a lot of care but she has adamantly refused to go into a nursing home and also refuses carers. My dh and I are doing it all. It has brought a huge amount of strain and I'm on my knees with exhaustion so my perspective isn't what it might be.

My (v unsupportive) sibling lives with wife and two dc overseas. He and I do not get along and he doesn't get along with my mother (with some justification) but she understandably is desperate to be closer to him and his dc. For context my sil hasn't spoken to her for over two years. Long story short dm has sold her house as realistically she will never be able to live independently again and given the entire proceeds to my brother. I have only just discovered this. She knows we are financially struggling but says she has faith I will somehow manage. I am trying my hardest not to be resentful but failing miserably. Earlier in the year she promised money towards a car for me as I take her to all appointments. This is no longer possible for above reasons.

I totally accept she can do what she likes with her own money but still...

OP posts:
CoraPirbright · 27/01/2020 19:57

No wonder your SIL is NC with your mother. She and your brother sound like a right pair.

AutumnCrow · 27/01/2020 19:58

I've learned a lot about deprivation of assets in this thread. It's been very illuminating.

Gazelda · 27/01/2020 19:59

OP, is she contributing to your household? Are you claiming careers allowance?

I can't imagine I'd ever be able to look at my mother again if she did this. And my DH would be pushing very, very hard for steps to be taken for her to move out. She is disrespectful, ungrateful, deceitful, and cruel.

AutumnRose1 · 27/01/2020 20:00

“ Capacity has nothing to do with decisions being good or bad. A person with capacity can make any decision they like, even if it seems unfair or outrageous.”

Absolutely.

So OP mum can decide where she will live now and how she will sort out paid care.

Henlie · 27/01/2020 20:16

Long story short dm has sold her house as realistically she will never be able to live independently again and given the entire proceeds to my brother. I have only just discovered this.

So, the above isn’t accurate then Op, as you’ve just said the money hasn’t been transferred. Should your AIBU question really read as follows?

”Long story short dm has sold her house as realistically she will never be able to live independently again and is about to give the entire proceeds to my brother. I have only just discovered this. AIBU in asking her to keep the money and use to pay for a care home as I’m not sure my DH and I can realistically look after her?”

User56781234 · 27/01/2020 20:22

Excellent advice from CousinKrispy today at 18.19 and from others.

My further concern here would be that, if your mother and brother have acted illegally with regard to Deprivation of Assets then it could be best to protect yourself by having no further involvement or discussions with either of them or anyone else regarding your mother's money or other assets.

BoomBoomsCousin · 27/01/2020 20:29

Tell her that if she transfers that money, you will contact the local authority, tell them you can no longer care for her, and inform them of the deprivation of assets.

Do this anyway. Really. You aren't looking after her for the money. You're looking after her because she's your mother. But she has made it clear she doesn't see you as fully human. You should not have someone who thinks of you in this way in your house. Apart from the strain she has already put on you all, what this sort of model would do for children's ideas on the role of women or good family relationships hardly bears thinking about.

AutumnCrow · 27/01/2020 20:30

So is the money 'resting' in an account somewhere?

Celticrose · 27/01/2020 20:42

As someone in a caring role and not fulltime but getting more as time goes by it is not an easy role.
You can't do it while both of you are working FT and also with a young family. Something will have to give eventually. You don't want that to be your marriage or the relationship with your kids. While working I found it very difficult trying to sort my parents medical appointments out, trying to get the time off etc.
I am in a face book group Caring for Elderly Parents. Though mostly American there are other nationalities on it. Some of the stories are heartbreaking. There are women who are practically on their knees due to looking after a LO. And some living apart from their spouse who is in another state.

You need to contact social services and say that you cannot do this end of. Also if my parent pulled a stunt like this my DH would absolutely call them out on it and say that they would have to arrange a NH or a fold. If you cannot tell her he can and must put his foot down.

One other point who would pay for her funeral. Does she expect that or would your brother have the decency to do that. If she does send him the money I would be putting him down as her next of kin. Give his details including tel no and address.

StLucia4 · 27/01/2020 20:50

Despite the money not yet being transferred, are you physically ABLE to care for your mother?

No amount of money is going to ease how you care for your mum unless you PAY for extra help!

Do you actually WANT to go through with this and take on board her demands?

MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 27/01/2020 20:54

What will she do when you tell her the care stops now and she’s moving out? Or will you just arrange a care home and take her there? Would love to see the look on her face.

rookiemere · 27/01/2020 21:02

You said in your OP that it's up to your DM what she does with her money. This is true to an extent, but it's also up to you how much support you choose to offer. Please get angry. This is a horrible thing for your DM to do - even if you do intend to look after her for the rest of her days at some point she'll need carers if you want to go away or if it becomes too much, and these need to be paid for.

Get your DH to speak to her if you can't face it, but honestly if the full sale proceeds are transferred to your B, I'd be buying her a one way ticket to move un with him.

RichTwoTurkeyFriend · 27/01/2020 21:07

Fuck THAT.
OP, this sounds exactly like a move a narc parent would pull at this point of things. The selfishness is overwhelming even without the money - expecting you to put your whole life on hold to provide care and refusing to let you get help, and then on top, giving all the money to a brother not lifting a finger?!?!?
No one would judge you for telling her that you won’t be doing this - and she’ll be needing that money for a care home or a plane ticket to your brothers.

user1493494961 · 27/01/2020 21:10

Sorry, but I would be in touch with Social Services to tell them your Mother needs a care home as you can't cope.

diddl · 27/01/2020 21:11

With any luck she's got enough left for a warden controlled flat.

JKScot4 · 27/01/2020 21:12

I’d be right onto your brother and tell him how fuckin dare he ask for money when you’re the one doing all the bloody work!
Brass necked grasping wanker 😡
Get your mother told she coughs up or fucks off.

Clymene · 27/01/2020 21:28

I would want to put her in a home. She has told you very clearly that she doesn't value you or what you do for her

TheStuffedPenguin · 27/01/2020 21:37

it's actually much harder to get an old person into a care home than many of you seem to think . For one they have to AGREE to go unless they are deemed not to have mental competency. Next there is the financial situation - if the person has more than 16,500 pounds then they are held responsible for their care home fees unless exempt due to medical condition . This woman has deliberately passed on her assets and so this will be investigated throughly. Carers are also based on financial situation. The mother will be considered to have intentionally deprived herself of assets but will be treated as notionally still having them - ie having to fund herself if applicable . This is a right mess OP. I would consider consulting a solicitor about this .

diddl · 27/01/2020 21:49

I bet the son would get her into a care home soon enough!

AutumnRose1 · 27/01/2020 21:50

“ For one they have to AGREE to go unless they are deemed not to have mental competency”

Yes. But if she gets no care, she’ll agree to go.

Or can OP legally evict her?

Russellbrandshair · 27/01/2020 21:58

*If the local authority funds someone’s residential care costs and later rules that a person has ‘deliberately deprived’ themselves of assets, they have the power to claim care costs from the person that the assets were transferred to.

Legally, local authorities have the power to recover costs by instituting County Court proceedings. However, a local authority should only do this after it has tried other reasonable alternatives to recover the debt*

Yep, I’m afraid this won’t fly with the council. You can’t deliberately sell your house and give the money away to avoid care fees. The council has the rights to claw the money back through the courts. After all, if everyone did this social services would have no money left for people who really need it. They will go after that money once they find out about it and your brother will be in for a shock.

Aside from that you should not look after her anymore. It’s ridiculous of her to refuse carers and expect you to run yourself ragged looking after her for free. She’s treated you like literal shit. I’d be getting her to move out if it were me.

diddl · 27/01/2020 21:58

Perhaps you could look into respite care as a way of getting her out of your house, Op (if that's what you want) & then leave it to your brother & mum to sort out what happens next.

GooseberryJam · 27/01/2020 22:04

it's actually much harder to get an old person into a care home than many of you seem to think

As someone who's done it, I completely agree. That's why I said tell her she has to move out not go into a home. OP will need to tell social services she can't afford to look after her mother anymore and that her mother needs housing. They will then have to ask what assets she has and the tale about the house sale etc will come out, then it's down to them to decide what they will pursue and what she's entitled to.

Russellbrandshair · 27/01/2020 22:09

I was curious about this so I googled and apparently the council can OVERTURN a house sale if they think a deprivation of asset has occurred:

“At an extreme, your local authority – which would otherwise be funding your care - would seek to have the sale overturned.

There is no time limit on a local authority's ability to take action in these matters, so it wouldn't matter how much time had passed since the sale of your house.”

So there you go. Your brother is screwed!

Blubelle7 · 27/01/2020 22:22

Put her in respite and refuse to take her back. SS will take over from there