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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is this a big red flag? Or am I a big red flag?

648 replies

aquickfiresidechat · 25/01/2020 23:19

I've been dating someone for a year. He works in the Geneva office of my company and he travels to London, and I to Geneva, once every other week, so it works out that we have seen each other for a period of days (2 or 3) each week staying at each other's flats/or hotels.

In the company we have a bulletin that goes round daily saying who is in which office within Europe. New man and I also have access to each other's calendars so some days I like to see what he is up to and imagine him going about his day and I always imagined he liked this too.

Anyway, we both went away separately for Christmas and came back early January. We were talking and chatting regularly on the phone like we always do about when we could next see each other. He then went on a business trip and was busy with meetings and time difference, so we did not get a chance to speak much.

Two weeks ago, I noticed on the company bulletin that he was due to be in London the next day. I assumed he had just forgotten to mention it being so busy and that he would make arrangements with me shortly. The next day came and he was not in the office. I double clicked on his diary and saw that he was in meetings in London but not coming into the office.

I sent him a message and said "why didn't you tell me you are in London? Can we see each other tonight?" He texted back a bit short and told me to meet him for a drink after work.

I arrived and asked him how he was. He said, "shocked." I said "why shocked?" he said "because you have been going through my diary and checking up on me." I said "but we have access to each other's diaries, I saw you were in London, and I assumed we'd see each other?" He sat there open mouthed for about 10 mins while I tried to justify why I had looked at his diary and questioned him.

When I got upset he became softer and said he wanted to make me happy and he was sorry for not telling me, but he had terrible jetlag, was completely underwater with work and not yet recovered from Christmas and just felt he needed a night to sleep. He cancelled his client dinner and we spent most of the evening talking about it. I was actually crying because I was so shocked at the sudden attitude change. He asked me to stay the night and I was still quite upset and said no, and we went our separate ways and he flew back to Geneva the next day. We agreed that we would communicate openly about when he is in London going forward.

The next morning he rang me before his flight, quite agitated and said that he had not slept a wink because he felt quite angry that I would demand he see me every time he is in London. He said it had nothing to do with seeing anyone else or not wanting the relationship, but he would be travelling to the UK more frequently and just the thought that, that would be my expectation every single time he was here felt very demanding. His justification for this was that he was most often knackered and would have evening meetings with clients or customers and therefore would not want to trek over to my flat at 11pm or midnight and then fly back to Geneva the next day. He said "you are my priority, but you cannot be my priority all the time." While I wasn't really happy with this, we agreed that he would tell me when he was in London even if he was not going to see me.

I found this new arrangement quite difficult to understand, as this was obviously not our previous pattern, so I didn't feel I was delusional or imagining the relationship was more than it was, for expecting the previous pattern to continue, even though at the time he was telling me this I was apologising rather than justifying my thought process. I felt that he reset the relationship and bamboozled me into thinking that questioning him or his behaviour was stalker-esque or obsessive.

We carried on speaking on the phone every day and texting a lot (it's always him initiating contact. He calls me about five times a day just to chat,) Three days later the company bulletin came again saying that he was in London. He had not told me this.

I double clicked on his diary only to see that he had codified it. Ie, replaced information with a letter and a number. All bookings and reservations that he usually made and I could previously see were now password protected and then diary entries had been made private. Seeing this made me feel like a stalker and made me think that he thought I was a stalker.

He carried on throughout the day communicating with me as normal. I did not ask him where he was. At around 7pm he said he was off to a client dinner and that he would sign off the the night as it would be late. I assume he thought I thought he was in Geneva.

I don't know what got into me but I felt I wanted to know for sure, so at midnight I went to the hotel he normally stays at while here, and I waited in a bar over the road where I could see the door. Lo and behold, I saw him returning to the hotel and going in late. Alone.

I texted him. "Hey can we talk?" He replied immediately. "Sorry, no. Off to bed."

I felt humiliated and embarrassed of myself and like a true stalker. The next morning I decided it was over. I felt that if I told him the reasons why (I was upset he had coded his diary and I had spied on him outside his hotel) it would give me more reasons to feel embarrassed. So I just stopped communicating with him entirely.

Two weeks went by and I ignored all calls and messages and took a week off work to go away and switched my phone off. When I came back to work, I found him in my office, beside himself. Why had I done this to him? What was my problem? Why had I not replied to him? What did I think I was doing? He had been in London looking for me etc.

I've agreed to chat to him about it all on Wednesday when I am next in Geneva. I don't trust him. I cant tell him why.

I don't know anymore whether his behaviour is the red flag or whether mine is.

What do you think??

OP posts:
QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 15:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sillysmiles · 27/01/2020 16:02

@aquickfiresidechat for me the killer is how can someone speak to you 5 times in a day and not mention - I'm in the airport, I'm in London or all the bits of a normal day of travelling. Not that he has to tell you - but he has to consciously avoid mentioning his day then. Or be very vague about it.

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 16:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

urright · 27/01/2020 16:10

Some life experienced wise posters on here. Some others do seem to have a chip on their shoulders from noticing how they post. I hope the OP can go forwards feeling better in whichever way it pans out and can pull out the helpful advice as it fits with her.

If anyone wants to take umbrage with this post, I do not intend to answer as this is my view.

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 16:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 16:27

I also don't think that, although it's largely just a misunderstanding, you'll never be able to explain it to him. See the number of people on this thread not getting it? He'll be like them. He's never not going to see your behaviour as anything other than stalker-like, and as he wanted to withdraw anyway, it's only going to add to his fear.

God you talk a lot of shit

I could, track ever member of my company that works in the frimmield, right now if I so wished. I could ask dp to turn on find my friends. I could ask to know when he is in a 6 mile radius of my office. I could let him know I am near his and want to see him.

I could look at every other directors diary if I so wished.

Yet i dont.

Nor do I go and sit outside dps work to watch his comings and goings. Then text him pretending I am not.

I know exactly what information is out there about me and other in my social and work circle. But i dont.

And yes, I do think people who need to know where their dp is, even when it doesnt impact them need to really look at themseleves. They either dont trust their dp and think they are shagging about. Or they have issues themseleves.

Again, since op said she ghosted him because she couldnt think of a reason to give for ending it....what exactly would she have said if he had agreed to talk when she was in the bar opposite the hotel?

How would that chat have gone, what is that she wanted to say?

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 16:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shadyshadow · 27/01/2020 16:48

OP, if you find yourself hiding in a bar at midnight to observe your boyfriend, it's not ok and you need to walk away. For your own good.

HundredMilesAnHour · 27/01/2020 16:49

Am I the only one who finds it a little unusual that this entire relationship seems to be conducted over nights away on business trips? For over a year?! Did the OP or this man never at any point decide to spend a weekend together? Or go away for a weekend elsewhere? Maybe they have and the OP just never mentioned it but it sounds odd. Like the relationship is on work expenses. At what point would one of them be willing to use their own money for travel to visit the other? And spend some weekend or holiday time together.

Aridane · 27/01/2020 16:49

@Cheeseandwin5

And yet posters disagree with the statements you are making that are so obvious as to be trite! Shock

HannaYeah · 27/01/2020 16:51

@aquickfiresidechat

Despite the apparent absolute war between the parties on this thread, I’m not really convinced your relationship has to be doomed.

When I met my DH we were in touch constantly via text. Then he suddenly would disappear for a day or so. It turned out this was happening when he was very stressed either with work matters or something to do with his son.

The first couple times it really freaked me out. It didn’t last long enough for me to go looking for him, but internally I was a wreck because the pattern had changed without warning. My Mom calls this “the terror of love.” I think this is exactly what happened to you.

He definitely should have communicated his need for space. And you already mentioned what you would do differently so I won’t belabor that.

But I truly hope things either end amicably or that you have gained better understanding of one another and can move forward together on a happier note. It sounds like things have been really great up until this point.

Aridane · 27/01/2020 16:53

Grade 5 Clinger alert, Grade 5 Clinger alert - run for the hills, Geneva man

(Courtesy of Wedding Crashers)

Aridane · 27/01/2020 16:55

It is demanding and he shouldn't have to tell you or see you every time he is in London. But, he is being quite mercurial and I wouldn't like that.

Yep

It was outrageous of you to check his calendar after he had expressed that he did not like it. Going to his hotel puts you in psycho territory. Ghosting him after a year puts you in dickhead territory.

Yep

You are the red flag. Sorry.

And yep again

🚩 🚩 🚩 ⚠️ 🚩 🚩 🚩

LovePoppy · 27/01/2020 16:59

Right, and why was she in that position?

Because she chose to go there.

Seriously, When a man says a woman made him do it, it’s abuse. It should be the same across the board

urright · 27/01/2020 17:12

OP you are Not the red flag.

You probably felt somewhat out of control emotionally because of the situation, hopefully now getting back on track. This is my view.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 17:13

OP isn't a stalker, she's an information natural, who's dating an infodunce.

I disagree. Again you have no clue about how into information he is.

OP using information at her disposal or being a 'information natural' AND using it to know all his whereabouts. Which he has told her he is uncomfortable with.

If OP isnt comfortable with that, she can end it.

I wonder how many stalkers would be considered information naturals

Rhubarbncustard4 · 27/01/2020 17:25

You sound to me that as a couple you are mismatched - that you are more into him than he is into you . I don’t think that there should be any obligation on him to see you if he’s in London , however I find it odd that when talking 5 times a day something relevant to being there wasn’t mentioned . It’s a bit much to go spying on him to check he is in London ... but I can see why you did it - you needed to know where you stood . Sadly I think he showed you .

In the ideal world you’d both have a good open chat about both your expectations after 12 months together and whether or not you can move forward - but neither of you are behaving in a way that makes that appear likely . If it’s a bit of fun for him a couple of nights a week , but you’re hoping for Something more serious and committed ,then it doesn’t look likely to work out .

letmebefrank · 27/01/2020 17:26

OP, you're not the red flag. Not at all.

Aridane · 27/01/2020 17:34

OP isn't a stalker, she's an information natural

Love it - have reached peak Mumsnet!

doritosdip · 27/01/2020 17:37

Information doctor 😂

doritosdip · 27/01/2020 17:38

I mean natural not doctor

doritosdip · 27/01/2020 17:43

If OP was a man everybody would say that OP was controlling abusive stalker and to leave partner and get therapy.

I can't imagine daydreaming about my partner being on a conference call at 9 and on the second door meeting room at 1?! I would be interested if he had the sort of job where he met celebrities or travelled al over the world but I'm assuming that it's a run of the mill office with conference rooms with glass walls and non-descript desks.

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 17:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

urright · 27/01/2020 18:00

OP I hope you can ignore any unpleasant attitudes and just focus on what is helpful to you. This is your life and not for public sport. My comments are for the OP not for questioning or to take a dig at.

doritosdip · 27/01/2020 18:02

When he originally said that he didn't like the fact that OP was reading his diary then OP should have stopped checking.

I know that he's shared the diary so should have known that it was a possibility that she'd look but presumably in his mind it was a casual act like him ignoring the bulletin. I know some couples where they know each other's phone passcode but they would never use it to read stuff. Knowing the code is how they show their trust in the other person.

I think that while she has a right to be upset that he promised he'd tell her he was in London but didn't is a good reason to be angry. However she basically did the same thing when she went off-grid for the break. She should have said to him that she was going on holiday where contact wasn't possible since they usually speak 5 times a day plus texts.