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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is this a big red flag? Or am I a big red flag?

648 replies

aquickfiresidechat · 25/01/2020 23:19

I've been dating someone for a year. He works in the Geneva office of my company and he travels to London, and I to Geneva, once every other week, so it works out that we have seen each other for a period of days (2 or 3) each week staying at each other's flats/or hotels.

In the company we have a bulletin that goes round daily saying who is in which office within Europe. New man and I also have access to each other's calendars so some days I like to see what he is up to and imagine him going about his day and I always imagined he liked this too.

Anyway, we both went away separately for Christmas and came back early January. We were talking and chatting regularly on the phone like we always do about when we could next see each other. He then went on a business trip and was busy with meetings and time difference, so we did not get a chance to speak much.

Two weeks ago, I noticed on the company bulletin that he was due to be in London the next day. I assumed he had just forgotten to mention it being so busy and that he would make arrangements with me shortly. The next day came and he was not in the office. I double clicked on his diary and saw that he was in meetings in London but not coming into the office.

I sent him a message and said "why didn't you tell me you are in London? Can we see each other tonight?" He texted back a bit short and told me to meet him for a drink after work.

I arrived and asked him how he was. He said, "shocked." I said "why shocked?" he said "because you have been going through my diary and checking up on me." I said "but we have access to each other's diaries, I saw you were in London, and I assumed we'd see each other?" He sat there open mouthed for about 10 mins while I tried to justify why I had looked at his diary and questioned him.

When I got upset he became softer and said he wanted to make me happy and he was sorry for not telling me, but he had terrible jetlag, was completely underwater with work and not yet recovered from Christmas and just felt he needed a night to sleep. He cancelled his client dinner and we spent most of the evening talking about it. I was actually crying because I was so shocked at the sudden attitude change. He asked me to stay the night and I was still quite upset and said no, and we went our separate ways and he flew back to Geneva the next day. We agreed that we would communicate openly about when he is in London going forward.

The next morning he rang me before his flight, quite agitated and said that he had not slept a wink because he felt quite angry that I would demand he see me every time he is in London. He said it had nothing to do with seeing anyone else or not wanting the relationship, but he would be travelling to the UK more frequently and just the thought that, that would be my expectation every single time he was here felt very demanding. His justification for this was that he was most often knackered and would have evening meetings with clients or customers and therefore would not want to trek over to my flat at 11pm or midnight and then fly back to Geneva the next day. He said "you are my priority, but you cannot be my priority all the time." While I wasn't really happy with this, we agreed that he would tell me when he was in London even if he was not going to see me.

I found this new arrangement quite difficult to understand, as this was obviously not our previous pattern, so I didn't feel I was delusional or imagining the relationship was more than it was, for expecting the previous pattern to continue, even though at the time he was telling me this I was apologising rather than justifying my thought process. I felt that he reset the relationship and bamboozled me into thinking that questioning him or his behaviour was stalker-esque or obsessive.

We carried on speaking on the phone every day and texting a lot (it's always him initiating contact. He calls me about five times a day just to chat,) Three days later the company bulletin came again saying that he was in London. He had not told me this.

I double clicked on his diary only to see that he had codified it. Ie, replaced information with a letter and a number. All bookings and reservations that he usually made and I could previously see were now password protected and then diary entries had been made private. Seeing this made me feel like a stalker and made me think that he thought I was a stalker.

He carried on throughout the day communicating with me as normal. I did not ask him where he was. At around 7pm he said he was off to a client dinner and that he would sign off the the night as it would be late. I assume he thought I thought he was in Geneva.

I don't know what got into me but I felt I wanted to know for sure, so at midnight I went to the hotel he normally stays at while here, and I waited in a bar over the road where I could see the door. Lo and behold, I saw him returning to the hotel and going in late. Alone.

I texted him. "Hey can we talk?" He replied immediately. "Sorry, no. Off to bed."

I felt humiliated and embarrassed of myself and like a true stalker. The next morning I decided it was over. I felt that if I told him the reasons why (I was upset he had coded his diary and I had spied on him outside his hotel) it would give me more reasons to feel embarrassed. So I just stopped communicating with him entirely.

Two weeks went by and I ignored all calls and messages and took a week off work to go away and switched my phone off. When I came back to work, I found him in my office, beside himself. Why had I done this to him? What was my problem? Why had I not replied to him? What did I think I was doing? He had been in London looking for me etc.

I've agreed to chat to him about it all on Wednesday when I am next in Geneva. I don't trust him. I cant tell him why.

I don't know anymore whether his behaviour is the red flag or whether mine is.

What do you think??

OP posts:
StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 13:11

“ Right, and why was she in that position?”

Because she chose to go to the bar and sit there?

Sorry I should have said because menz bad.

StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 13:12

Tatiana, In the interests of “openness and honesty in a relationship” do you think the OP should be confessing to stalking outside his hotel?

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 13:14

Very slowly - why was she in a position that she needed to verify if he had been honest with her?

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 13:15

She’s not in a relationship with him anymore. (Doh)

StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 13:15

“ Tatiana, In the interests of “openness and honesty in a relationship” do you think the OP should be confessing to stalking outside his hotel?”

StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 13:15

“ She’s not in a relationship with him anymore. (Doh)”

You sure about that?

LemonPrism · 27/01/2020 13:16

It is demanding and he shouldn't have to tell you or see you every time he is in London. But, he is being quite mercurial and I wouldn't like that.

It was outrageous of you to check his calendar after he had expressed that he did not like it. Going to his hotel puts you in psycho territory. Ghosting him after a year puts you in dickhead territory.

You are the red flag. Sorry.

StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 13:21

“ Very slowly - why was she in a position that she needed to verify if he had been honest with her?”

She wasn’t in any such position. Oh wait, sorry, she was, because she is a woman and emotions and stuff and therefore has no cognitive ability or agency of her own when dealing with horrid menz who make her do things which aren’t good but that is their fault and not hers because emotions.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 13:24

A. He can’t know for sure how she would react to something that had never happened before. B. That may not be why he didn’t tell her. C. This is all wild speculation your part.

I am saying that A, as he partner he probably will have a good inkling. B, We dont know why he didnt tell her. I simply said that maybe he felt that she would have known thriyfg the bulletin. C, I dont see the need to speculate negatively when we have no clue

HannaYeah if she obsessively checks the bulletin and then connotes that to his diary to track his whereabouts, of course that's stalking. She didnt say she checks the bulletin everyday to know his where abouts though. Not really sure of your point.

I am not make excuses for him. I am simply saying that all these people who think he is to blame for all this, including ops sketchy (by her own admission) behaviour, could be way off the mark.

Regardless, ops behaviour isn't ok.

TheDeep · 27/01/2020 13:25

I think a lot of posters are minimising the OP's actions whilst at the same time placing a greater level of blame at the blokes door.

Neither of them sound great but the amount of posters handwaving away the OP's actions or blaming them on the bloke is staggering.

Nanny0gg · 27/01/2020 13:36

Do you actually, from a work POV, have to see him?

If not, end it. It's going nowhere.

Is he married?

loobyloo1234 · 27/01/2020 13:39

I think a lot of posters are minimising the OP's actions

The OP has already said what she did was wrong though? Has her DP taken any responsibility for trying to cover up his whereabouts at all as it doesn't seem so? Because he then did the exact same thing. He is the dishonest one

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 13:43

She wasn’t in any such position. Oh wait, sorry, she was, because she is a woman and emotions and stuff and therefore has no cognitive ability or agency of her own when dealing with horrid menz who make her do things which aren’t good but that is their fault and not hers because emotions

I spy with my little eye a bloke with a chip.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 13:44

Your excuses for him have jumped the shark.

Yep. The whole thread’s jumped the shark.

I’d like to know how the meeting goes on Wednesday, but the OP doesn’t owe us anything.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 13:52

He is the dishonest one

They are both dishonest.

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 14:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cheeseandwin5 · 27/01/2020 14:17

Just to confirm:
a) If I don't want to see my BF for any reason, I should let him know.
b) If I haven't made plans to see him but am in the area, I need to tell him.
c) He has the right to badgered me to let him know where I am at all times
d) He has the right to look through my diary ( kindly note this is a work diary and not supposed to be used for non working reasons) and call me out anytime he thinks I haven't told him where I will be.

If I don't do this he has to right to call me out on it, to cry and aruge with me, to follow and stalk me and tan to ghost.

Are we really saying this? Is the rush to blame the man so great that ppl are willing to excuse all sorts of bad behaviour?
Because he hasn't told her where he is, he is of being a cheat to a liar to gaslighting her to a selfish twat- it also seems to excuse her actions.
You know I didnt tell my any of my BFs where I was all the time, and if he expected to me I would call him controlling. Infact I dont do that to my DH.
The craziest excuse is that he should want to see her, so if he doesn't then he is a cheat liar etc etc and excuses all her actions.
People on here need to stop their prejudice and take genders out. Person A didn't want to see Person B on a given day and didn't arrange to meet them - that is it. Is Person B is than allowed to do all the things they did on the back of it.
The sad thing is that theses posters are actually not helping the OP. By thinking her actions are ok and that he is wrong or the reason she did them, she will continue to repeat them, but I guess for some its not about helping fellow women.

LittleDragonGirl · 27/01/2020 14:21

She wasn’t in any such position. Oh wait, sorry, she was, because she is a woman and emotions and stuff and therefore has no cognitive ability or agency of her own when dealing with horrid menz who make her do things which aren’t good but that is their fault and not hers because emotions

I spy with my little eye a bloke with a chip.

Personally I think the first post is pretty accurate and as a women could have written it myself. Women cry for equality yet when these things happen everything still responds in a way they wouldn't if the role was reversed. Honestly what would we be saying if a women had posted that her DP had acted like the guy here? Probably along the lines of LTB as its emotionally manipulative and controlling and we dont have to tell men our every move etc etc etc. So it's TRUE, the way people respond to a scenario is very much linked to the genders of those involved.

saraclara · 27/01/2020 14:23

Person A didn't want to see Person B on a given day and didn't arrange to meet them - that is it.

Yep. They don't live together, he didn't go AWOL.
A happened to be in the city where B lives but for once (or twice) due to his schedule, he didn't have time to meet, so didn't contact her.

He didn't need to get in touch to justify himself any more than anyone else passing near their boyfriend's house needs to.

aquickfiresidechat · 27/01/2020 14:25

Just clearing up the bulletin/diary thing:

The bulletin is mostly correct but not always correct. Meetings change from internal to external, meetings get cancelled, people get sick, sometimes the person who submits the bulletin gets it wrong or gets the days/offices mixed up. It is not 100% bulletproof but over the period it has been sent, it has generally givesn good idea of everyone's movements within Europe.

Both times I saw his name on the bulletin in London, I assumed there must have been some mistake. The first time because I believed that we would be going back to our usual pattern of seeing each other in London and Geneva and I thought it would be unlikely he was in London and not tell me. And the second time, because he had promised me that he would tell me if he was in London, even if he was not going to see me (and I had absolutely believed him!)

Some people don't read the bulletin. Some people's jobs (like mine) require that they read it more often than others. I suspect he did not know about it or never bothered reading it, or just deletes it when it comes through. He is very busy generally and probably doesn't fancy more internal stuff to read.

OP posts:
aquickfiresidechat · 27/01/2020 14:26

And I am seeing him this Wednesday to "talk" about everything

OP posts:
hellsbellsmelons · 27/01/2020 14:28

a) If I don't want to see my BF for any reason, I should let him know. Well if he lives in another country, then yes, I would expect him to let me know when he's coming to visit my country. He's my boyfriend. He's been doing it for the past year so why is it not OK now??

b) If I haven't made plans to see him but am in the area, I need to tell him.

Well yes, why wouldn't I? I have a client meeting, not back until midnight so won't be able to catch up this time around. It's hardly rocket science and is just good manners.

c) He has the right to badgered me to let him know where I am at all times
He doesn't have to let me know where he is at all times but if I know he is visiting my town in a different country, a courtesy call would be nice.

d) He has the right to look through my diary ( kindly note this is a work diary and not supposed to be used for non working reasons) and call me out anytime he thinks I haven't told him where I will be.
It's something we both agreed to do at the beginning of our relationship. It's something we've been doing for a year now! So, if I suddenly password protected my diary now, he would have every reason to worry as to why? What am I hiding etc.....!??

That's how I see it!

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 14:31

The bulletin is mostly correct but not always correct

Yup.

I’d love to know how it goes on Wed, but only from sheer nosiness.

I don’t know there will be any room for an update with all the squabbling.

Good luck.

StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 14:43

“ So it's TRUE, the way people respond to a scenario is very much linked to the genders of those involved.”

Indeed. The bigotry on this site at times is absolutely astounding.

For balance though, it is great that there are so many who are confident enough to call it out, even when they know they may be labelled “cool wives” etc.

PGtipsplease · 27/01/2020 14:47

Person A didn't want to see Person B on a given day and didn't arrange to meet them - that is it

Yep. They don't live together, he didn't go AWOL
A happened to be in the city where B lives but for once (or twice) due to his schedule, he didn't have time to meet, so didn't contact her

He didn't need to get in touch to justify himself any more than anyone else passing near their boyfriend's house needs to

Yup.

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