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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is this a big red flag? Or am I a big red flag?

648 replies

aquickfiresidechat · 25/01/2020 23:19

I've been dating someone for a year. He works in the Geneva office of my company and he travels to London, and I to Geneva, once every other week, so it works out that we have seen each other for a period of days (2 or 3) each week staying at each other's flats/or hotels.

In the company we have a bulletin that goes round daily saying who is in which office within Europe. New man and I also have access to each other's calendars so some days I like to see what he is up to and imagine him going about his day and I always imagined he liked this too.

Anyway, we both went away separately for Christmas and came back early January. We were talking and chatting regularly on the phone like we always do about when we could next see each other. He then went on a business trip and was busy with meetings and time difference, so we did not get a chance to speak much.

Two weeks ago, I noticed on the company bulletin that he was due to be in London the next day. I assumed he had just forgotten to mention it being so busy and that he would make arrangements with me shortly. The next day came and he was not in the office. I double clicked on his diary and saw that he was in meetings in London but not coming into the office.

I sent him a message and said "why didn't you tell me you are in London? Can we see each other tonight?" He texted back a bit short and told me to meet him for a drink after work.

I arrived and asked him how he was. He said, "shocked." I said "why shocked?" he said "because you have been going through my diary and checking up on me." I said "but we have access to each other's diaries, I saw you were in London, and I assumed we'd see each other?" He sat there open mouthed for about 10 mins while I tried to justify why I had looked at his diary and questioned him.

When I got upset he became softer and said he wanted to make me happy and he was sorry for not telling me, but he had terrible jetlag, was completely underwater with work and not yet recovered from Christmas and just felt he needed a night to sleep. He cancelled his client dinner and we spent most of the evening talking about it. I was actually crying because I was so shocked at the sudden attitude change. He asked me to stay the night and I was still quite upset and said no, and we went our separate ways and he flew back to Geneva the next day. We agreed that we would communicate openly about when he is in London going forward.

The next morning he rang me before his flight, quite agitated and said that he had not slept a wink because he felt quite angry that I would demand he see me every time he is in London. He said it had nothing to do with seeing anyone else or not wanting the relationship, but he would be travelling to the UK more frequently and just the thought that, that would be my expectation every single time he was here felt very demanding. His justification for this was that he was most often knackered and would have evening meetings with clients or customers and therefore would not want to trek over to my flat at 11pm or midnight and then fly back to Geneva the next day. He said "you are my priority, but you cannot be my priority all the time." While I wasn't really happy with this, we agreed that he would tell me when he was in London even if he was not going to see me.

I found this new arrangement quite difficult to understand, as this was obviously not our previous pattern, so I didn't feel I was delusional or imagining the relationship was more than it was, for expecting the previous pattern to continue, even though at the time he was telling me this I was apologising rather than justifying my thought process. I felt that he reset the relationship and bamboozled me into thinking that questioning him or his behaviour was stalker-esque or obsessive.

We carried on speaking on the phone every day and texting a lot (it's always him initiating contact. He calls me about five times a day just to chat,) Three days later the company bulletin came again saying that he was in London. He had not told me this.

I double clicked on his diary only to see that he had codified it. Ie, replaced information with a letter and a number. All bookings and reservations that he usually made and I could previously see were now password protected and then diary entries had been made private. Seeing this made me feel like a stalker and made me think that he thought I was a stalker.

He carried on throughout the day communicating with me as normal. I did not ask him where he was. At around 7pm he said he was off to a client dinner and that he would sign off the the night as it would be late. I assume he thought I thought he was in Geneva.

I don't know what got into me but I felt I wanted to know for sure, so at midnight I went to the hotel he normally stays at while here, and I waited in a bar over the road where I could see the door. Lo and behold, I saw him returning to the hotel and going in late. Alone.

I texted him. "Hey can we talk?" He replied immediately. "Sorry, no. Off to bed."

I felt humiliated and embarrassed of myself and like a true stalker. The next morning I decided it was over. I felt that if I told him the reasons why (I was upset he had coded his diary and I had spied on him outside his hotel) it would give me more reasons to feel embarrassed. So I just stopped communicating with him entirely.

Two weeks went by and I ignored all calls and messages and took a week off work to go away and switched my phone off. When I came back to work, I found him in my office, beside himself. Why had I done this to him? What was my problem? Why had I not replied to him? What did I think I was doing? He had been in London looking for me etc.

I've agreed to chat to him about it all on Wednesday when I am next in Geneva. I don't trust him. I cant tell him why.

I don't know anymore whether his behaviour is the red flag or whether mine is.

What do you think??

OP posts:
Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 12:24

Youcan’tbe this dumb scars. Perhaps you’re just being disingenuous.

The only person acting dumb is you. Presenting a theory with no evidence just because you cant seperate something your are dealing eith in real life from this thread. I have never once said something is fact. You keep stating it as fact.

She didn't feel the need to say bulletin as well as calendar, why would she?

Because seeing it on a public document proves she wasnt using his calendar to know exactly everything. Because the truth is, tags where she found the information?

Maybe he just didnt say london. Maybe he just said meetings? She can be sketchy with the truth and it's just one of those things. He does the same and his is a liar?

She thought he knew about both. And at no point has she said 'he doesnt know about the bulletin and I didnt bother telling him about it'

Again if he is lying by ommission....so was she.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 12:27

There is nothing cowardly about choosing to avoid drama. If someone is going to give you grief about a perfectly legitimate thing

He didn’t know she was going to give him grief the first time he failed to tell her as it had never happened before!

I’m not sure why some posters are falling for his parenthetical self-justification.

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 12:29

The only person acting dumb is you. Presenting a theory with no evidence just because you cant seperate something your are dealing eith in real life from this thread. I have never once said something is fact. You keep stating it as fact.

Ok so how you’re inventing stuff. This is just too dumb to bother engaging with, sorry.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 12:32

Everyone keeps coming back to the fact he didnt tell her he was in London the second time. After having to cancel a client dinner to deal with a huge meltdown, he probably didnt want to take the risk

But the problem the first time was that he hadn’t told her. So if he told her the second time that would avoid the problem!

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 12:35

it's me presenting the theories, and I've never once said they were fact. I also wasn't the one who called you dumb!

Plenty of people are presenting their theories with no evidence and saying he is dim. He doesnt know how to use outlook. He lied by omission....but she just didnt mention something, that's different.

All factual statements.

Its fucking weird

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 12:37

But the problem the first time was that he hadn’t told her. So if he told her the second time that would avoid the problem!

So he has known her a year, but hasnt formed an opinion on how she would react to something?

Who knows, maybe he knew the crying meltdown and meeting cancellation is exactly how it would go

We dont know.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 12:42

Plenty of people are presenting their theories with no evidence

Including yourself. It’s weird that you wouldn’t realise that.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 12:44

Except I am not presenting as fact.

I have said he likely knows. I have said theres every chance he knows. Thing like 'maybe...its this'

Or thing like 'at no point has OP said he doesnt know how to use out look or that the bulletin exists'.

I am not him. I don't know.

I am certainly not staring that he does know how yo use outlook because people at my work do.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 12:45

So he has known her a year, but hasnt formed an opinion on how she would react to something?

Clutching at straws.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 12:49

No, I said maybe he knew what would happen if he told her, he didnt eant to see her every visit.

Are you saying that after a year he has no clue on how she reacts to things?

That's clutching at straws

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 12:49

Except I am not presenting as fact.

You have actually, if you read back. You also claimed the OP posted about this before, with no evidence. (Turned out to be false).

Everyone is just theorising, including you. Some posters are sticking closer to what’s actually in the OP.

StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 12:49

“But the problem the first time was that he hadn’t told her. So if he told her the second time that would avoid the problem!“

He knew she would know he was there! He knew because he knows about the bulletin and that they had shared diary access. He didn’t feel it was relevant to tell her personally because he wasn’t planning to meet up. For once.

He was then challenged on this, and subjected to tears and drama, and pushed into agreeing to agreeing to let her know when he was in London.

Then, the next day, after his client dinner and planned rest had been ruined, he communicated again to say how unhappy he was with all of this.

And he clearly thought “fuck that” go the “agreement” they had reached. Agreement made under menaces and manipulation can be disregarded.

By expressing his unhappiness the next day, it also strongly implies that the “agreement” is no longer applicable.

People are entitled to space. Some people just do not understand it, but that is their problem.

loobyloo1234 · 27/01/2020 12:50

Strange thread. Your DP said he would tell you when he was in London - regardless of if he was too tired to see you. You accepted it. He then came to London and didn't tell you like he said he would

I can't condone the waiting outside of a hotel for him OP but I do think he is the red flag. I don't think you need to tell him what you did but I think you just need to say it isn't working for you anymore. After a year you want things to progress and you are not sure it is if he isn't going to be honest with you on his whereabouts

LittleDragonGirl · 27/01/2020 12:51

Honestly I wonder if everyone hand on heart genuinely tells there SO everything they are doing and exactly where they are IF it has no impact on the other person?

If I'm down the road from my DH work place I dont text him to tell him, although I could pop in, because I'm usually too busy and theres no need to create a issue when it's easier to just not say anything, I might tell him I've gone shopping but not that I drove in the vicinity of his office.
I really struggle to understand if this guy knew he couldn't and wouldn't have time to meet OP why make a issue by telling her, she works and knows the demands of the company and he would probably expect her to understand that in a professional client facing job sometimes the demand on the company have to come first.
For all we know OP has prior form for being demanding and getting upset when hes tried to not see her when hes been to busy, and that could potentially be why he decided it was easier to not mention anything.
He actions once OP got upset are not the actions of someone who dosent care/isnt invested.
Simply we dont have any background information and his actions may have been completely reasonable. Even without it I really dont think his actions were unreasonable when working in a professional client facing position.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 12:53

I’m saying A. He can’t know for sure how she would react to something that had never happened before. B. That may not be why he didn’t tell her. C. This is all wild speculation your part.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 12:56

People are entitled to space

No-one has said people are not entitled to space. They have said that people are entitled to openness and honesty in a relationship. Without that - the relationship falls apart, as it has done.

OvenGlovesWillTearUsApart · 27/01/2020 12:59

He sounds shifty and immature.

I reckon he told you he loves you so he can keep getting what he wants, while thinking he can keep you in your place too. What a charmer.

I do hope you have dumped him by now, good and proper. You deserve better.

YasssKween · 27/01/2020 13:00

They have said that people are entitled to openness and honesty in a relationship.

Ok so where does secretly going to a bar and watching someone's hotel door to check where they are fall on the openness and honesty scale then?

Or is this a "he did it first so principles go out the window" kind of situation?

Because that's pretty childish. OP wasn't happy with how her boyfriend was behaving. She was unhappy enough she had a meltdown and also wanted to spy on him. She should have been adult enough to recognise that meant the relationship wasn't healthy for her. And leave. Not go to a bar and spy on a hotel door!

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 13:00

You also claimed the OP posted about this before, with no evidence. (Turned out to be false).

No. I said that I thought she may have done. And then said 'or maybe there are 2 people in the same position'. I even followed that up with 'I am sure op is bring honest' when she said that it wasnt her.

I never said definitely.

Everyone is just theorising, including you. Some posters are sticking closer to what’s actually in the OP.

How?

How is it anywhere in the op that he is dim?
That he doesnt know how to use outlook?
Doenst know how to use the bulletin?
That when she leave things out she doesnt do it eith negative intentions, when he does it, it is negative.

No evidence to back any of that up.

BumbleBeee69 · 27/01/2020 13:01

Okay..... Is it OVER or NOT OVER yet ? Confused

StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 13:01

The OP doesn’t seem to think he is entitled to space. She threw a crying fit and a massive drama because he came to London once and hadn’t arranged to see her, causing him to actually cancel on a client.

Horrendous.

ofay · 27/01/2020 13:07

The OP hadn't seen him for almost three weeks when she realised he was going to be in London, but keeping quiet about it.

As they usually see each other 2/3 times a week, that's quite a long break considering he had recently declared his love for her.

He then tried to hide the next visit to London too. That's strange behaviour in my book, why wasn't he desperate to snatch a few hours with her? Suspicious? Hell yes.

HannaYeah · 27/01/2020 13:08

@Scarsthelot

You keep harping on about this bulletin, and how he doesn’t need to tell her he’s in London like he promised to tell her because she can just read that to know. However, if she is looking at the bulletin just to find out where he is, isn’t that “stalking” by your own definition?

I mean, since looking at the calendar he gave her access to read so that she can know his schedule is off limits and deranged “stalking”, surely, reading a company wide bulletin and using that info to know he’s in London is even worse and a complete invasion of his privacy since he cannot control that she sees it.

Your excuses for him have jumped the shark.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 13:09

Ok so where does secretly going to a bar and watching someone's hotel door to check where they are fall on the openness and honesty scale then?

Right, and why was she in that position?