I'm in such pain

[NeverGotMyPuppy]

I just dont know what to do.
DH and I have been married for 10 years. All mostly happy. We have a 16 month old DS.
DH has always been argumentative - I often feel I have to replay conversations to 'prove' my point. I've often said I could do with CCTV and feel like I'm often on trial. He gets obsessed over the minutiae of arguments and i feel like we have an argument within an argument within an argument IYSWIM.

He has got worse recently. He is utterly defensive and sees so much as criticism - it blinds him to everything else. I'm finding myself utterly exhausted living with him. Today as an example:

DH gets DS ready for childminder. I say - perfectly nicely 'r those the trousers he was wearing yesterday? If so they r dirty'. DH asks 'really - where?' I tell him. He repeats the question in 2 other ways, disbelieving that they are dirty. I say 'honestly, I had to brush the food off them to get him in the carseat last night'. DH asks me to show him. DS isnt fond of staying still. DH says a little bit of a mark isnt important so he wont change him.
So I go and change him. I show DH the old leggings 'oh, I didn't see that'.

The day before he spent 20 minutes arguing why DS's toyboy was a perfectly sensible place to leave his toothbrush - 'it's a flat surface' when I pointed out that it makes my life quite difficult when he doesnt put it back in the bathroom as I have to search around to clean DS's teeth.

I know it sounds like a tiny thing. But this is most days of my life. I'm utterly exhausted by it.

What do I do. Im so sad and i feel so alone. Am I going mad? Am i in the wrong here?

As other op have said. Pick your battles. If you can't see the dirt and they aren't wet or absolutely filthy don't even mention the leggings.

Bleach within reach if your dc, worth mentioning.

Tbh if my dh kept on at me over a pair of leggings that weren't that dirty over and over again, I'd probably start to lose my shit too

'If it had been all down his leg surely you wouldn't have had to point it out'.

It was, and I did.

I dont think he is a gas lighting cocklodger. I really really dont - that's why I dont want to leave. I dont trust my own judgement at the moment, I cant work out whether we are done or whether there is hope.We dont have anybody that could take DS for a weekend but couples counselling might be a good shout.

It isnt about the leggings. It's about the fact that everything requires such a massive conversation. I feel like I have to prove everything.

@Streamingbannersofdawn that sounds really rough and like he is attacking your personality - have u had any counselling or discussions about it? I am sure are right and that DH feels similar.

I try to let stuff go - but I dont want bologanisey leggings in my car?!?!

I didnt 'keep on at him'. I asked him to change them and when he said he wouldn't I did. He kept asking the same question, I kept giving him the same answers.

As I said, he did say that they were very dirty once he had been shown them off DS!

Hes a barrister and bringing his courtroom persona home and it needs to stop, or you need to split for your mental health's sake - and the knock on effect on your DC. His endless cross examinations will soon find another outlet in your DC in just a few years too, and a child can easily be damaged by this. Don't let your DH put your DC through the same grillings.

He stops it - or you split.

Honestly OP, if that situation occurred in my house, I would have changed the leggings but then I would have left it, there's no way I would have shown DH the dirty ones just to prove that I was right. That seems unnecessary to me.

Can't believe posted are saying let it go and pick your battles.

It would drive me nutty. Total lack of respect and not seeing things the same way = not compatible!!

Maybe he’s not coping with being a parent. I’d suggest couples counselling. Is there anything he does by himself in the way of chores that he does well.
Have you spoke about task division in finding his strengths and letting him get on with it. Things don’t have to be perfect but “good enough”
Learn to walk away from arguments at times.
Save your energy. It sounds exhausting.
Have you any family and friends support.

Wow I can't believe these comments. OP, it is fucking draning. If you want to talk more without judgement please feel free to message me. He is being typically controlling. You used an example of the leggings and people are saying you should 'let it go' - I doubt they would for the hundreds of other times!

I have one of these. Well, not the general unthinking clumsiness actually but the 'i put it to you' attitude.

You have to find a way to be together alone and have the conversation. And you have to tell him exactly the behaviour that is wearing you down and find a way to tell him that in the middle of an instance of it. It presumably happens at times of stress so you need a way - whether it's a code word, or repeating what he's said, whatever - of telling him he's doing it at the time and getting him to snap out of it.

There are no magic cures though. In my experience it gets worse with stress and less bad with less stress. Good luck.

I'm really really trying to let things go where I can and praise what he does well. He's much better at ironing and washing up than I am.
Maybe I shouldnt have shown them to him. But that was the only way to get some sort of apology for the cross examination which is going on while I am trying to get me and DS ready to leave for the CM and work.

I know this sounds ridiculous. I know it sounds pathetic over just a pair of leggings. But it happens all the time. This is my life, having to hold his hand through everything. Like the row we had after he went shopping and left DS in the car. I didn't go mad, I just asked him to think about what could have gone wrong - he countered every single point. All I wanted was for gin to recognise it wasnt a good idea.

I think @iMatter has hit the nail on the head.

Another example- DH and DS playing with the cat. The cat gets annoyed and DH doesnt remove DS quick enough - he car scratches DS. He cries. Dh says is fine. I check- he has a bleeding cut literally millimetres from his eye. I point this out. That was the only time I have seen DH genuinely apologise and understand what was wrong. I didnt need to do a postmortem. I also reassured him and said that the cat can be quick and comforted him and reminded him that DS was fine and no permanent damage had been done.

But it took me to point out the cut for that to happen.

Its not you, its him.

re your comment:-
"I dont think he is a gas lighting cocklodger. I really really dont - that's why I dont want to leave. I dont trust my own judgement at the moment, I cant work out whether we are done or whether there is hope.We dont have anybody that could take DS for a weekend but couples counselling might be a good shout".

What is your own definition of a gaslighter then?. He is in my opinion certainly gaslighting you and that is an insidious and sinister version of psychological abuse.

What's your H;s family background like; have a bloody good look at how his parents behave. Chances are one or even worse both of them behave like this.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

If you feel like you are walking on eggshells around him (aka living in fear) then couples counselling is not a good idea. Do you think as well that such a man like described would actually go into counselling; I doubt it very much also because he thinks he is doing nothing wrong here with regards to you. I do not think you would have a free voice in counselling sessions either. This is because if he can manipulate you this easily then he could certainly manipulate some marriage counsellor into taking his side and making it all out to be your fault.

How does he treat other people and how is he around others; he is probably is all sweetness and light around them as well. Does he have friends/family?.

Abuse is not about communication or a perceived lack of; its about power and control. This man wants absolute over you and in turn your son; he will continue to mess with your head here and could well go onto harm your son similarly.

I would be contacting Womens Aid in your particular circumstances and look into planning your exit from this marriage with due care and with your safety uppermost in mind.

I can see why this annoys you, your initial examples seem trivial on their own but not if it's constant. This is a standard conversation with us:

I'll reiterate something i said earlier, maybe something trivial, maybe not.
Him: oh right, i thought you said x
Me: no, i said y
Him: oh right it's just when we spoke i thought you said x that's all
Me: eh, no i specifically remember saying y and in any case x isn't true so why would i have said it
Him: oh right i was sure you said x that's all

Drives me up the wall. His default position is to not believe what i say and even when i correct him to carry on questioning. Not in an argumentative way really, just conversational. He really struggles with ever being wrong or in the wrong, even with trivial stuff.

Its knackering isnt it?

He has had counselling with specific focus on his upbringing which was a bit shit.

Do not let this continue to be your life going forward. Your son needs to learn far better lessons about relationships too lest he goes onto do the same as his dad does. His overall neglect of his son here is harming your child; neither you or your son for that matter are of any real importance to him.

Is this really the model of a relationship you would want your son to adopt?. No it is not. Your H is not going to change; he gets what he wants out of this relationship and he enjoys the amount of power and control over you.

People who gaslight become expert at pushing your buttons, and they know your sensitivities and vulnerabilities and use that knowledge against you. They make you doubt yourself, your judgment, your memory, and even your sanity. Examples include:

Trivializing how you feel: “Oh yeah, now you’re going to feel really sorry for yourself.”

Telling you that people are talking behind your back: “Don’t you know? The whole family talks about you. They think you’re losing it.”

Saying things to you that they later deny having said: “I didn’t say I’d take the deposit to the bank. What are you talking about? Thanks a lot for the insufficient funds fee we’re going to get.”

Hiding objects from you, and then deny knowing anything about it: “You seriously can’t find your sunglasses again? That’s alarming.”

Insisting you were or were not at a certain place, even though it’s not true: “You’re crazy. You never went to that show with me. I should know.”

You can not change him and he doesn’t want to change. You have two options, leave or accept it. Neither option is easy but If you keep on butting heads with him, you will damage your MH.

The balls in your court, living with such a personality isn’t an environment I would raise a child in.

How shit exactly was his own upbringing; what do you know about this?. He could be well replaying what he himself saw in his childhood with you people. A shit childhood is in itself no reason or justification for the treatment of you and in turn your son now.

He will continue to mess with your head if you stay with him (for what are really your own reasons); gaslighting is a form of psychological and emotional abuse.

You have a choice re this man puppy, your son does not because he will have to follow your lead.

Surely he must be taking the toothbrush to the bathroom to get the paste and then back again after to wash it?!

Mine is like this in terms of just not doing things how I would - for example he's downstairs with the kids now as it's my morning to stay in bed for a bit, I know when I get down there they'll be in their pjs with mess everywhere, porridge bowls dirty on the table and dishwasher still full of clean things and they'll be watching tv.

This used to cause rows but - a) he now takes them down without huffing about it and b) gives them porridge instead of whatever crap for the cupboard. I've won a couple of little points and the rest I just leave as he just has different standards/ideas to me. I can't change him so I just campaigned for little tweaks now I leave the rest instead of exploding with rage! (My frankly much worse flaw)

OP how bad of a cut are we talking about that your DH didn’t notice?

I’m not doubting you, just wondering exactly how careless your DH is. Do you genuinely feel your child is unsafe with him? My DH lets the kids do a lot of things I wouldn’t but I know he’s a responsible person and he has their best interests at heart. He may think I’m over cautious and the kids could miss out on things. We have different approaches but we trust each other. It’s hard for me to bite my tongue sometimes but I know I also make stupid mistakes, like your DH leaving the tea on the floor. Was your DS actually burned? With the bleach thing, was your DS actually harmed or just a stained vest? I’m not saying bleach is good to throw on a kid but your DH was also probably gauging if he was in distress etc.

If you split up your DH will have DS on his own and you will have to learn to let it go. If you think DS is in real danger you could ask for supervised visitation but I don’t think any or the things you listed would rise to the level that a judge would agree to it.

if that situation occurred in my house, I would have changed the leggings but then I would have left it

And you can't see that leading to a question like "Why has he been changed after I got him dressed?" then another argument?

You sound thoroughly worn down by it. What’s interesting is that you also say you feel alone. Is this because you feel he doesn’t take you seriously ? That your undermined? These are quite fundamental issues. I really think couples counselling would help you navigate this

Anne didn’t call you a liar OP, and you did fly off the handle toward her a bit

Reversing your example- why is your DH leaving the toothbrush somewhere stupid more annoying than you not putting trousers you know to be dirty in the washing basket? Both resulted in mild inconvenience that could have been avoided but equally neither are massive issues.

You sound quite end of your tether to me and I dont mean that meanly. How’s the rest of life, are you both getting enough sleep, exercise, alone time etc? The toddler years are hard, especially if you both work.

Was his upbringing full of criticism?

I wonder whether he grew up trying so hard to get everything right but nothing was good enough. (I can relate to that...)

Maybe he had to justify everything he did in the face of a barrage of criticism and so he coped with it by questioning the criticism rather than saying eg "Oh yeah, you're right. Those leggings are filthy. I'll get clean ones"

I'm sure he's much more confident in the rest of his life but parenting is a new thing for him (which we all find difficult at times) so his defences are up.