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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it ok for a lover to ask repeatedly for sex acts he knows you don't want?

335 replies

Interestedwoman · 20/01/2020 00:38

I'm not going into grizzly details in this original post as I'm on Relationships rather than Sex board, but will give more detail in the thread if people request it.

My lover/FWB says there's nothing wrong with him asking for what he wants, even though I've told him I'm not into X, Y and Z.

I did do these things early on (a lot of people are wilder at the start of something I think) but gradually decided they weren't for me- or there are some things I've never liked, which I've made clear from the start.

I have bipolar and was in a ridiculously horny phase when we started seeing each other. I also have more insecurities about my body at the moment as I put on a bit of weight.

Another thing he's said is that most women enjoy X, (which he loves and I don't really like) and says maybe I should have therapy so I can enjoy it, as I could be missing out.

Interested in your opinions :)

OP posts:
SirChing · 22/01/2020 00:40

OP, this guy is one of the nastiest bastards I have read about on here. And the reason for that is that he tries to hide his personality behind his therapist guise.

People who become therapists (and I can't even begin to start on the shite that is gestalt therapy!) are generally one of two types of people: incredibly caring OR narcissistic control freaks on a power trip.

The latter go into that line of work as they enjoy feeling superior, manipulating people, and having control. They are chilling. I wonder which professional body he is a member of? I would hazard a guess that he isn't.

I have nurses people with MH issues for years, and also did counselling training too. And I have never heard so a load of bollocks as the shite he is coming out with. He isn't a genius. He is a manipulative, arrogant cunt.

He has good looks going for him - that's great because he sure as hell doesn't have anything else. I find it chilling that those of us replying to you are concerned about you, yet this guy - who knows you in real life, is meant to be your friend, and is a therapist FFS - is blatantly fucking with your head.

He has dazzled you. Take his looks out of it. He is an inadequate sexual predator, a chance, who has a higher opinion of himself than anyone else. He is an evil narcissist.

Being 100% truthful and blunt: any therapist worth their salt would never ever embark on even a FWB relationship with you. Because you are so obviously vulnerable. So he isn't even a good one. Run a mile OP, you can do so much better xxx

Interestedwoman · 22/01/2020 01:32

@SirChing I think he is in the main professional body for that line of work. Most of his working hours he works out of a centre shared with others. As you know, joining the professional body for most professions just requires having recognised qualifications at most, paying the money, and signing the code of conduct.

I honestly don't think he can be that bad a person. Will be keeping my eye out for 'evidence' and will be asking him about some of these things, like how could he get upto (especially 'out there') sexual stuff with someone he knew had hypomania? That is so cravenly, obviously wrong to me now.

All he did was ask me if I was ok to do the stuff, or something like that. And he's said it's my job to tell him if I'm not. As if someone rendered a 'nymphomaniac' by hypomania is usually going to go 'no, I really shouldn't have sex right now.' Grin Grin Grin I had told him I was hypomanic and ridiculously horny. Probably nowadays I might even say something like 'I really shouldn't do it' if I were hyper, but at the time there were some problems with my then consultant and meds. (I went private for a while and the bloke claimed I just had ADHD, and so he had me on a stimulant med and wasn't treating my bipolar effectively. Luckily I know I have bipolar, so also carried on taking my mood stabiliser.)

A friend tried to get me to do BDSM stuff at the time, and I said that I shouldn't because I was hyper. Maybe I just wasn't as into her lol.

I feel a little guilty now, as women usually turn at some point in these threads.:)

OP posts:
Luckystar777 · 22/01/2020 02:08

You seriously need to watch some Richard Grannon on youtube.

And report and block this maniac. PLEASE.

SirChing · 22/01/2020 02:11

Don't feel guilty at all. As he is in a professional body, he should be even more ashamed of himself!

It isn't your job to say that you are hypomanic - he should be able to recognise that. And if you are hypo, then he shouldn't be doing ANYTHING with you, because you can't consent with a clear mind.

It's fine not to want to do certain things with different people or at different times.

Just keep your wits about you and I bet in the next 6 month's you realise what an utter shitbag this bloke is (can't call him a man as he clearly isn't a real one!).

category12 · 22/01/2020 05:42

Op, you've got tons and tons of evidence already.

The absolute bullshit rape apologism and victim blaming he treated you to.
The way he backed off from what he'd said and then doubled back down on it. (Basically "I'm sorry but I'm not really and I was right anyway")
His knowing ruthless sexual exploitation of you.
His admission of narc traits. (And reverse and deny and saying it's you.)
Fucking off when you needed him.
Not accepting your no.
Etc etc.

Have you a fascination with being destroyed?

PatriciaHolm · 22/01/2020 07:55

I honestly don't think he can be that bad a person

If that is your attitude at this point, after every thing everyone has said and pointed out, I don't think we can help you any more. You aren't listening, and don't want to listen.

Tfgjiknfr · 22/01/2020 08:04

You are not listening OP. Don't know why you posted this thread

ShatnersWig · 22/01/2020 08:19

You are not listening OP. Don't know why you posted this thread

Said that on page 5. Someone called me out on my "cracking attitude".

Glad others are seeing it my way.

Stella8686 · 22/01/2020 08:25

I agree OP

Don't talk to him about it

Cut him out of your life

OR

Start being VERY honest with your therapist about it all. Don't hold back.

I bet he's done worse than what you've shared on here too.

You know he's awful and the two of you together are toxic

Interestedwoman · 22/01/2020 09:03

I am listening. :) Already said I can see now that him doing stuff when I was hyper was bad.

And he isn't thick, so he must know how much I went along with things months later because I wanted to please him.

I did say that at one point, that I'd been doing stuff I didn't want to do sexually, and now he's quite paranoid about whether I really want to do things or not. But he says he can only take me at my word if I say I'm ok with doing something.

OP posts:
GiveHerHellFromUs · 22/01/2020 09:24

@Interestedwoman are you actually in a relationship with this man or are you FWB as you said previously?

Do you honestly think regular sex is worth this much emotional stress?

Luckystar777 · 22/01/2020 09:49

You're listening but clearly not really sure about taking on board all the good advice you've been given and doing something to help yourself. Why? Why are you taken in by this utter creep?

category12 · 22/01/2020 12:22

He's not thick, no. Now reread what you said he said to you about the rape as if he'd said it to someone else, remembering that he's not thick and he does mean it. You said you're a feminist? Confused What does your feminist lense say about this shit?

What are you afraid of if you excommunicated him from your life? Who and what else do you have in your life? Why are you prepared to ignore so much about him?

fuckitywhy · 22/01/2020 12:58

Good lord OP. What it would take to make you think someone wasn't a friend?

Notcoolmum · 22/01/2020 13:12

He blamed you for being raped. Dear god. Please see him for what he is.

I can see now its rejection you are afraid of. You need to reject him. Take control. This man is not a friend.

ScreamingLadySutch · 22/01/2020 13:48

@Interestedwoman just want to tell you that the Mumsnet Vipers are completely on your side, we are a bunch of women you can regard as your friends and sisters. We will always care about you.

OK, so as your Viper friends and sisters, it is pretty clear we hate him. Awful awful toxic exploitative human being.

And we feel really protective of you because you are vulnerable right now.

So I want to ask you if you could possibly take the risk of doing something?

Could you commit to us, Mumsnet, that you are prepared to take the risk of BEING ON YOUR OWN (single, no sex) for ... three months?

And in that three months, commit to THERAPY as your relationship, and really do the hard work that you need to do? GO into that pain. Process it?

And, in that 3 months, talk to us about YOU? What you want. What you think. What you feel. What you are terrified of. What is your favourite thing to do? Food?

Not that exploitative manipulative repellant Frenemy, you.

We are here, 24/7. When you wobble, there is always someone here.

Could you possibly try that? The pain and terror of being on your own, except you won't be, we will be here?

I was so terrified of losing my marriage, of finally ditching my abuse, even when people who had done it and were living alone said 'its so much better'.
But it is so much better.

You have energy left over to make friends, and be with people who don't get off on sadism (hurting you). You get perspective.

Interestedwoman · 22/01/2020 15:52

^'are you actually in a relationship with this man or are you FWB as you said previously?

Do you honestly think regular sex is worth this much emotional stress?'^

@GiveHerHellFromUs It's a FWB thing but as my libido cooled off, rather than just wanting to get laid somewhere, it's that I fancy him in particular.

'Now reread what you said he said to you about the rape as if he'd said it to someone else, remembering that he's not thick and he does mean it. You said you're a feminist? confused What does your feminist lense say about this shit?''

@category12 Obviously, it was appalling.

'I can see now its rejection you are afraid of. '

@Notcoolmum Yes, issues about rejection are mainly what I'm seeing a psychologist for at the moment. I have a major thing about it, was always hurt by it throughout my life, and recently have dreaded how I might handle rejection from anyone in future.

'Could you possibly try that? The pain and terror of being on your own'

@ScreamingLadySutch I don't mind the loss of a lover, it's losing friends I don't like. I have a real thing about it. I tend to measure my (lack of) worth by how few friends I have etc and how hard I find it to maintain friendships. But I am trying to be less like it, and I have a few more goals than I did.

Of course I'll try and think of stuff to chat about to you all. On my counselling course we have to keep a journal of self-awareness or something, so I'll be more aware of things I'm experiencing etc.

So, Great Vipers, I think you'll be marginally pleased with me today.

I met up with 'Bob' and helped him get back from his treatment, as I usually do.

Then, I found that a lot of it came out of my mouth. I said that he shouldn't have shagged me when he knew I was hypomanic and therefore suffering from a ridiculous libido- I'd told him these things at the time. I do not personally believe some of his replies.

He claimed that as bipolar etc is not his specialist area, I shouldn't use that he's a therapist to say he should've known. I don't believe that he doesn't know the basics of the condition. He has books on his bookcase about psychiatric diagnoses etc.

He said that he felt everything was consensual, and that he constantly checked (which is true, but what I consented to I don't think I would've done if I was in my normal frame of mind and wasn't hyper. Having said that, I have no regrets.)

Then I said, I don't like the 'interrogations,' which he said were just that he was genuinely interested / making conversation- hmmmm :)

He claimed that the nagging is down to his health condition, that he forgets what I've said. I don't believe that is true about things I've mentioned repeatedly. He also said again that there's nothing wrong with him saying what he wants. In general, I promised to tell him to shut up or something when he makes me feel uncomfortable or nags.

He asked whether we will carry on having some kind of sexual relationship, and I said I felt there was something wrong about it. I'd be seriously interested in your opinions about this, or at least to have it spelt out for me- what is wrong? I think it's that I'm somehow doing sexual stuff I don't want/don't feel 100% congruent with. I don't think I'm 100% lesbian, so it's not that.

He does make me ridiculously horny He says he's not sure we'll be able to keep our hands off each other. Usually it's kind of me that starts stuff. I said that I am in control of my hands, they're not prone to uncontrollable spasms, so I should be able to not do it.

At first he said he mightn't want to see me again etc, but he rang about half an hour later, when I'd got home, to say that we'd still be friends. He said that after a few weeks or less we might slip back into sexual stuff (this is kind of what happened before, when I'd been chatting to a therapist and I managed to tell him I was doing sexual stuff I don't want in order to please him etc.)

There've been two different things- 1)= the hypomania which effected my actions 18 months ago.

  1. Whatever this other thing is, that I end up doing stuff that somehow I'm uncomfortable with, even the really basic stuff I sometimes have a feeling of wrongness about. I'd be interested in your opinions about what that is.

Maybe some of it is that it doesn't always arise organically, as you've said @SirChing . He'll ask me if I'd like us to go back to mine and have 'sex,' and there's just something about it, I find it hard to say no, or whatever, for fear of him being less fond of me.

The worst has been a couple of times I've been trying to talk to him about other things (IDK what in particular) and the things can be quite deep. He then once or twice, when I've finished a sentence talking to him about something as a friend, will say 'that's good now X my Y.' I think these instances have been disrespectful. So rude! :) He said the same about another lover he has, that she witters on when they should be doing sexual stuff.

OP posts:
Notcoolmum · 22/01/2020 15:59

Imho @Interestedwoman you need to cut him off. He's not a friend. He is manipulative and makes you doubt yourself. you are bending over backwards to earn his approval. He takes no responsibility for his actions and shows you no genuine care or concern.

ShatnersWig · 22/01/2020 16:20

Screaming you said we are a bunch of women you can regard as your friends and sisters

I'm not a woman. But I think I've already indicated I agree with every word you wrote.

Tfgjiknfr · 22/01/2020 16:38

How old is he OP and how old are you?

Interestedwoman · 22/01/2020 16:42

I'm 43 and he's about 54 or something. The age gap isn't obvious at our age- I look pretty decrepit anyway lol. To be fair I've always liked older guys. His health problems (not particularly age related) I suppose do have an effect though on the extent to which I'm left frustrated.

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 22/01/2020 17:14

He told you being raped was a learning opportunity? Wow. Why are you not done with him? Block him, delete his number, even without all the sexual coercion, he's not on your side. He's not a safe person for you.

BecauseReasons · 22/01/2020 18:51

Don't say you look decrepit, OP. I bet you're far more attractive than you give yourself credit for. It sounds like you've built this guy up in your head as some kind of Adonis and at the same time decided you're some kind of hideous crone. You are worthy of respect and proper treatment, OP, no matter how attractive you think this guy is.

Interestedwoman · 22/01/2020 19:21

Objectively, I know he's not that attractive, due to other people's opinions of him physically. I didn't fancy him that much at first, either.

OP posts:
category12 · 22/01/2020 20:32

Obviously it was appalling and....? I don't understand how you can overlook it.

He said that after a few weeks or less we might slip back into sexual stuff This is his intention. Firstly he tried to scare you by saying he won't see you again, and next he's preparing the ground to go back to the status quo.

I think that the sex feels wrong because of the cognitive dissonance of trying to believe in his goodwill versus his actual behaviour.