I’m at t he point of walking away from everything in divorce. Please help!

[Movingon83]

Some opinions please. I’m at a point where im absolutely fed up with my divorce. At the end of the day I win because I’ve left with my life intact a horribly emotionally abusive man.

My lawyer says an occupation order is finally balanced as to whether id win because I left the house with Ds (3). I left by force because he bullied me out. So do I not bother with the order, I really don’t have money to spend especially if not successful.

When I left in Feb my H’s last words were I will make you suffer, you will never get me out. So I know he will drag this out as long as possible because I had the confidence to leave him.

He will never agree on any financial order which leaves me ok financially. He wants 50:50 on the house and to walk away with pension and savings intact. So basically 70/30 in his favour.

Fighting him could cost me everything I have. Is there any point fighting against a narcissist. Do I just walk away with my head high and leave him the money he wants???

@Movingon83, I can totally relate to what you are going through. That constant feeling of being on high alert for the next attack. The frustration of not seeing an end to it.

I was recently put through a two year court case by my narcissistic, emotionally abusive ex-husband. He used the scorched earth method - refused any form of reasonable agreement, lied, hid assets, played mind games, involved third parties, anything to cause as much emotional and financial damage as he could because he knew he was going to lose. He didn't get anywhere near what he wanted and I ended up with a clean break for which I thank my lucky starts every day.

Not sure if this will help you but how did I survive?

On a practical level:

Took over the legal work to avoid the hefty legal fees - represented myself at hearings to get disclosure and FDR. I reckon I read enough to qualify as a solicitor but I felt in control which really helped. I am sure you are capable of representing yourself.

Took advice of a direct access barrister instead of a solicitor - gave me an idea of what to expect in court which I followed. Kept my side of things reasonable and flexible with a view to not being tied to him anymore, even if that meant losing all I was entitled to.

Did not react at all to his ranty emails and manipulative communications - if I thought a communication was likely to upset me, I got someone to screen it first. I only communicated when I had to and kept it brief, to the point and emotionless.

I am not sure judges recognise emotional abuse but I had a male judge who saw straight through his manipulations. It was priceless!

Try to get a clean break if you can Op. Being tied to this type of person will not do your mental health any good going forward. Mine started out as Disney dad to our child, got a new woman and then lost interest so that tie disappeared. Best option for both of us.

On an emotional level:

Used a very good therapist to talk about my feelings, mostly my fears and frustrations.

Talked about the case to a couple of very good friends but not so much that I wore them out

Went to yoga regularly to de stress

Did loads of jigsaw puzzles, colouring books - anything that you have to concentrate on

Walked my dogs in the fresh air every day - nature is very therapeutic

Screamed and cursed about the awful person I used to be married to at the top of my voice in my car (must have looked like a nutter but really helped relieve some of the stress - therapist suggested this)

Did stuff that I enjoyed, that engaged me - took some classes, writing, painting, journaling

It was the most awful, stressful, upsetting and frightening time but I feel very proud that I stood my ground. As another poster said you may regret giving up and he is probably counting on grinding you down to get more than his share.

Good luck . Look at this as a very small part of a big life free from this pile of mental clutter that you married.

Thanks, really great advice. This is awful, truly awful. I thought leaving was hard but this is long and drawn out. It’s the not having any certainty that’s getting me. He bullied me out the house a year ago. I haven’t been able to deal with it mentally or physically. I thought I wanted to fight for the house and go back but his narcissism has soaked into the walls. When I go in to get my post when he isn’t there I can feel it, it chokes me. It would mean I’d be tied to him for years financially.

And that is perhaps the compromise you need to make in this situation. Perhaps work out what you need to be financially free of this man. That may mean selling the house and splitting the assets. Pinning your colours to the mast of having the house may not be the best solution long term, particularly if it ties you to this man. There are many ways to divide up the pie but the end game is to be free of him. You don't have to roll over, get the best deal you can but be reasonable at all times in court.

That's why a barrister is more useful than a solicitor. They should be able to give you a view on how your situation is likely to pan out in court in your area. They know the judges. You won't get certainty because it doesn't exist in these cases but you can find something to aim for. I wanted a clean break and was willing to forgo long term substantial maintenance to achieve it.

I think you need to accept that it will go to court. You cannot negotiate with someone who isn't rational and it's a waste of time, effort and money to try. To them it's about winning at all costs because they want to destroy you. Have a look at the Tudor website about narcissists in court cases. Prepare yourself. My ex took it to final hearing on the slightest chance that he would get his way. He could not accept defeat yet was completely trashed in the judge's verdict. I am sure he is now whining about how unfair it is although he caused it through his behaviour.

As for contact with your child, unfortunately it's not under your control although I realise your deep seated fears. Perhaps talk to a therapist about this because if he smells your fear about this he will exploit it.

All I can say is that these types usually hang themselves given enough rope. He is probably making threats to frighten you. Try not to react. Step back. Don't let him know what's going on in your head. My ex tried all his old tried and tested tricks. None of them worked. He also f**ked up his relationship with his daughter so I no longer have to deal with him at all. So in the end it was win, win

I really feel for you Op but keep going for you and your son. It will end but it will be painful. You are at war with your enemy. That's how he sees you. Just keep looking after yourself in the meantime.

I feel torn. I want a clean break but I don’t know if I could survive. Selling and taking money would leave me with savings, not enough to buy. My mortgage capability is laughable. Savings mean no benefits. So I’d end up depleting the savings on rent. I have this bloody chronic fatigue now. Every time I try and up my hours at work I’m ill and exhausted. If I could work more I could get a better chance of a mortgage. I then need to find someone to look after Ds. My doctor has told me to keep my part time hours and not increase them.

So he’ll end up with money and able to get a mortgage easy peasy with no responsibility. Nothing seems fair. Or the alternative is to drag it through the court and probably spend everything on solicitors. I hate this! That doesn’t even include taking child contact through the courts also. The stress is really getting to me, it’s worrying. I know I need to fight but I feel like running away!

In a few months time you will be much more detached from him. Your energy will dramatically increase. You'll kick yourself if you sold yourself short now due to imagining you'd be as drained in the future. Your illness probably magnifies the drain he causes. When he's gone you will get a huge boost.

Are your solicitors nicer people than he is? I'd be happier with solicitors having the money than with him having the money. You won't end up worse off. Likely better off.

You can’t have a clean break because you have a child together. I’m sorry but that’s the reality, unless one of you decides to walk away from your DS.

Please approach the (family) court and ask what it would cost for you to represent yourself and get it before a judge ASAP.

It's not a scary place. And In a family court the judge wants what's fair whilst prioritising the welfare of children concerned.

Your ExH sounds very much like mine.

Cost it up, talk to them. Don't be afraid of initiating court yourself. It will be fair and you won't have solicitors fees to pay on top.

You'll probably find that once you start court proceedings his solicitor will start putting pressure on you to settle before court.

They know that once you have a judge to set things straight they have to be seen to be reasonable. Up until this point, especially if you have no legal representation, they will be vile.

@SHAR0N a clean break is a term they use to describe neither party having a hold on the other financially after divorce.

It means neither party can make a claim on the other later on.

It's not to do with the children and contact or maintenance. It's not a clean break from the children.

As @whatdoyouthinkyouknow says, the courts want fairness. They will prioritise the welfare of your child with regard to housing and take into account your mortgage raising capacity so your fears about being left using capital to house yourself and your child are unfounded. I would urge you to get a barrister's view on this as it may bolster your confidence. You seem to have taken the worst view on your situation which is understandable as fear is driving you and I am sure your ex is exploiting this everyway he can. You will be able to earn more once this is settled, your health issues will calm down once you aren't being constantly triggered. You will get away from this person and heal.

I have a solicitor advocate at the moment. I think that means he can go to court. He has told me it is a fine balance as to whether I’d be able to keep the house as H needs to be housed. It would very much depend on the strength of my personal statement.

It just the cost that’s worrying me. I’ve spent a lot on really nothing so far. I can only afford what I have left over each month. I was trying initially by myself but this chronic fatigue has left me too exhausted. I could quite easily do it myself before but I get continuous brain fog. The solicitor said I have no choice but get help.

When I asked before about legal aid they told me I could get it but would need to pay it back as I have money in the house. Is this true? I then just figured whats the difference of paying now or after.

whatdoyouthinkyouknow is right.

Going to UK family court is not like an episode of Law and Order. It'll be fine.

Judges have seen a thousand abusive twats like your DH and nervous wives like you. The solicitor and your DH will be forced to behave or the courts will have their nuts.

On here, over the years, there have been some mad threads where the cowering woman takes The Big Man to court, he tries his usual nonsense on the judge, against solicitor's advice, the judge rips him apart verbally, then decides it is in the best interests of the children to give more of the money to the mother to support them. Sweet. That could be you.

I wish I could remember some links so you could read them.

Out of interest Op, how many bedrooms does your house have? How much would it cost you in your area to buy a two bedroom house?

It’s has 3 small rooms. It’s a converted bungalow. One room wouldn’t even fit a cot. In my area I would cost a similar amount. There wouldn’t be enough equity in our whole house to fund a 2 bed flat.

But I could afford all the bills and mortgage by myself if I stayed.

I think in court terms you would be overhoused as it's three bedrooms and there's only two of you. However your ex husband has the same issue. How can he hold onto a three bedroom house when you are the resident parent? If you put the equity towards a two bedroom property, what would the mortgage required be? Could you afford it with tax credits and child maintenance? Are there pensions that you can offset against the house assets? i.e. he keeps the pension you take the equity? I don't know the figures involved but perhaps thinking about various options may make it workable.

If I got 100% of the equity then I might at a stretch be able to get a small mortgage. I just don’t earn enough at the moment to get much. But then if I need 100% of the equity there doesn’t seem much point in selling does it?

If I settled on 60 or even 70% I would fall too short of lending the rest so would be renting. But then loose any benefit help.

If you got 100% of the equity, where would that leave him in terms of savings and pension. What would that equate to percentage wise from the whole asset pot? I am asking to get an idea about the reasonableness of you getting the house. If he is able to keep a decent amount of assets and rehouse himself on his salary it makes your argument sounder.

Btw a judge would factor in the costs of selling the house into the equation of asset split. There's no point making you sell if it doesn't achieve anything.

We aren’t talked about a lot to be honest, that’s why I guess the lawyer apprehensive.
I believe he has around £30,000 savings and the pension he has pain in about £15,000 so small. His salary 5 x mine.

I think our pot is around £190,000 house £140,000

So you are working in the dark really. No wonder it's causing you so much anguish Op. How can you possibly negotiate on those terms when you don't know what there is to split up? I am surprised your lawyer is allowing this and you are gambling away your money without the full picture.

If you start court proceedings he will have to fill in a Form E and provide evidence of his savings and pension pot. Until you have that information you can't take control and come up with a plan. I am wondering if your mental health would improve if you felt more in control of this situation as well. £30k is a sizeable deposit on another property for your ex husband.

That is what I no he had last year. But he has been hiding and moving money so I’m not really expecting him to disclose anything. He also earns some much more that me and has saved nothing in a year. Wasted it on rubbish!

So if I am reading this right from your update if he kept his savings and pension it would equate to 24% of a total pot of £190k. You would end up with 76% but would be able to afford to stay living there on your current salary with tax credits and child maintenance. No spousal maintenance but he could raise a mortgage to buy a two bedroom house for himself? Have you thought about putting these figures to a couple of other solicitors, free half hour advice, just to see what they think?

I can’t see it working. I could afford the mortgage payments but not to take him off the mortgage. I can’t raise enough at the moment. I think I could if I can get this chronic fatigue under control. He would never agree anyway. It would need to be done by the court.