Outside perspective on husband and mine argument

[Suzie567]

husband commented today that we should only have our kids birthday parties every 3 years or so. We’ve only had 2 parties so far for eldest (6) and none for second one. Every year he starts an argument at the mention of a party so that’s reason we had very few. His reason is that as a kid he only had party every 3 or 4 years - but as I keep telling him that was 30 years ago! Just for perspective, and not for a boast, we are not struggling for money and are quite comfortable. He really annoyed me today so I kind of lost it and told him the parties are for our kids not for him and it makes me happy organising and planning so what’s his problem. We argued all day and in evening I calmed down and tried to talk to him. I asked why he doesn’t like the idea of parties but he started his usual shouting and screaming at me.

He’s downstairs now sobbing away. I feel really bad that I wish I hadn’t brought up the party but then why can’t my kids have a normal life like their friends. I don’t know how to handle this. Any outside perspective pls.

Ask him if he likes feeling so dad about parties.
Does he want his child sobbing when they see everyone else having parties.
Does he want to be the bad daddy, who refused their child a party.
Then tell him he can cry all he likes but you refuse to make your child feel bad about parties, like his childhood makes him feel.
Then organise it at a play centre and just don't talk about it.
Oh and maybe ask if he wants a party for his birthday, BBQ in garden will do for that.

Maybe he can't stand the thought of hordes of kids in the house, screaming, shouting and being sick!
Maybe. If he had said that to OP, then fair enough; she wouldn't be on here. The issue is that he's not giving her any reason for his refusal, and is instead screaming, shouting and crying. The fact that he doesn't want the party is secondary.

Are your children witnessing him screaming, yelling and sobbing?

how does he react to other things he doesn’t like parties and gatherings at all and I’ve got most part of our married life have avoided all special things like our milestones birthday we’ve not done anything , my sisters and MIL wanted to have a baby shower for my first pregnancy but he didn’t like it.

how does he respond when you have odd party When we have the odd party he’s okay, he makes a little effort to talk to people but not overly. When I have visitors he acts weird so maybe it is social anxiety as some suggested. I had a really bad 2nd pregnancy and my sister came to visit me and cook food and he basically spent the entire visit slamming doors and screaming. When she was going he switched and said “no stay a bit longer”. My family don’t openly say anything to me about his behaviour I just hear things from others of what they say.

any idea why he does this I think he’s very introverted (like myself but I force myself to be outgoing and social for my kids sake so they dont miss out).

I think he’s very introverted (like myself but I force myself to be outgoing and social for my kids sake so they dont miss out).
Social anxiety and introversion are two quite different things. If he has bad social anxiety, then the idea of people coming into his home could actually be making him panic. So even though he wants to be sociable for the kids' sake, the idea of people coming over so often just makes him want to cry, and he's doing all he can to minimise the scary thing.

But this is still speculation. You clearly need to get to the bottom of this issue. Would he agree to counselling?

Just to add he does eventually apologise and says he was wrong but I just need to not have these big bust ups. Maybe I shouldn’t involve him so much like someone suggested I should just go ahead and plan and tell him the date of parties

Oh, and even if he does have social anxiety, the answer to this issue is obviously not to limit your children's social life to make their dad feel better for a couple of hours.

I don’t think counselling will work as he’s not ever willing to discuss. I am more and more thinking it’s an underlying issue rather than him being manipulative. I wish he could speak to be or I could be better at asking the fight questions. Like where do I start trying to get to the bottom of his issue.

Why can’t he just answer as to why he’s behaving like this? It’s pathetic

If your dh sees this anything like my ex, it could look something like this:

*You: I disagreed with him.
Him: She criticised my judgement.

You: I asked him to explain his reasoning, but he didn't give a proper answer, so I had to ask him again.
Him: She started a fight over nothing and then kept bringing it up again and again all day until I broke down.*

This (from a PP) sounds really familiar. My life is so much better now that I am separated from my partner.

OP--what you're describing about your H's behaviour sounds really, really unreasonable and horrible to live with. Do you really feel it is acceptable?

I am massively introverted and have social anxiety and yet I manage to cope with my kid having a birthday party every year, hosting the sleepover (shudder) and having a houseguest without "screaming and slamming doors." This just isn't normal behavior and I hate that your kids are growing up seeing it as normal, and that you seem to accept it as normal too. You deserve better!

What was his childhood like? He doesn't sound at all normal, OP. His reactions are really not something I'd be able to cope with long-term. What's he going to do when the kids are 17 and want a house party with beers? He's isolating your kids. He's isolating you. He doesn't know this, but that's what's happening.
All that aside, in order to get what you want, you're going to have to exclude him from decision making around things like this. Have the party after school. Cake and games at home. I'm not saying 'here's your solution and it's a good one'. But it sounds like you can't get him on board and if you do, the price you pay is that he could behave like a wally (trying to put this nicely- I could just say dickhead) in front of the kids (your kids and others) at the party.

Your kids can't have a normal life because their father has undiagnosed mental health issues and is unable to cope with even the smallest of things, like his own kids' birthday parties. That needs to be addressed. Is everyone walking around on eggshells or have you and your DH actually discussed his reaction to everyday life shit? He's crying over not wanting his own kids to have a birthday party. OP, this isn't right. You poor, poor thing. I know I sound harsh. And what I am NOT saying is that your DH is some terrible guy. He's not at all. But his reactions to stuff is not normal and you will have so much unhappiness ahead of you if he doesn't try and understand his unreasonable response to the simplest of things. It's unhealthy for all of you.

Well, you could try suggesting directly that he might have social anxiety; find him an article or two in case he doesn't actually know what it is, and make it clear that you won't be judging him for it, and are not criticising him, but are asking from a place of empathy and concern about him and the future of your marriage. Maybe write it down in a letter if he is hard to talk to.

Also book some counselling for yourself, alone.

And point out that you can either sort out these issues now, while you still like each other, or try to do it later, when you are on the verge of divorce.

P.S. sorry bold fail.

In your position, I think I'd let go of trying to figure out his underlying issue or getting to the bottom of his problems. Believe me, I understand the urge, but I don't think you'll ever really be able to understand him. I'd focus on protecting myself and my children from his toxic behaviour by getting the hell out.

BUT, if the marriage is truly healthy enough to be worth saving, then of course gaining a greater understanding of his underlying issues would be worthwhile. But it's no good you doing all the work of "understanding" if he does none of the work of "trying to cope with life like a normal human being instead of throwing tantrums over minor things."

Ah so, he doesn't discuss.
I think you'll have to start giving him an ultimatum. Because at the moment, he has a free pass.
"Talk about your shit or I'm out of this marriage." Sounds harsh, but OP, you really have to try and get him to resolve whatever it is that has cursed him with terrible coping skills. It's a big job and it'll be tough to tackle, but try.
And in the area of birthday parties, this will just have to be a DIY job. If you can plan a lovely party for your child after school when your DH is at work with just a handful of kids, that could work out really well... for now. What you can't do is invite the whole class over on a Saturday. Keep it small, keep it simple, and make the plans your own.

When I have visitors he acts weird so maybe it is social anxiety as some suggested. I had a really bad 2nd pregnancy and my sister came to visit me and cook food and he basically spent the entire visit slamming doors and screaming.

That's not anxiety and it is offensive to people with mental illness to suggest it is.

That is straight out of the textbook of abusive behaviour - making it uncomfortable for your friends and family to visit so you see them less and end up isolated.

Read the diagnostic criteria for anxiety. Nowhere does it say that anxiety disorder causes people to commit coercive control.

If you want to search for excuses for his coercive control rather than facing up to it that's your look out, but stop adding to the stigma faced by people with mental illness by attributing his textbook abuse to "mental illness".

Have you suggested one party a year. Max 5 friends. Midweek 4pm-6pm. Dc have to take a year in turn. On 2nd year they get the day trip with treats.
He does sound anti-social. Don't let that be the model for your dc. They have a life too.

I know he is isolating me and it does make me sad that my family know it’s happening but act like it’s normal that why I think I normalise it. I’m just so exhausted with everything. I wish he could be a little more easy going guy and I wish I could be less sensitive! I really don’t think we’re a good match honestly but right now I’m too exhausted. I’m definitely not going to let my kids miss out on memories and will organise parties but just wish everything was not a bloody battle.

Weekday parties sound like a good idea. I think this year I’ll leave it but from next year I will make sure there’s a party every year

Lundy Bancroft: Why Does He Do That?

There's a lot more to this, of course. But re: the party, how about telling him he doesn't have to be there? He could go out of the day or 'work late' if he's genuinely socially unable to deal with it.

You're not sensitive. Any normal person would be upset, broken down and exhausted by his abusive behaviour.

Thanks for the book recccomendstion I’ll take a look at that.

My life is so much better now that I am separated from my partner.
This is also the method I used to stop everything from being a battle. Amazing how, with later partners, I have not been painted as cold-hearted, argumentative or pushy; funnily enough, they seem to think that I am quite the opposite.

How can you have sex with this selfish man-child?

On the specific issue. Reassure him that parties do not occur every year because most kids stop having them at around 8 years old and instead have a treat with a few friends. So you will be doing parties every year from ages 3-8. Celebrating only every 3 years is not normal.

But the real problem is your DH’s inability to express his feelings without resorting to emotional manipulation and histrionics. He needs to shape up. Or you will have a tough decision to make.

And it’s not your job to fix him.

I am massively introverted and have social anxiety and yet I manage to cope with my kid having a birthday party every year, hosting the sleepover (shudder) and having a houseguest without "screaming and slamming doors." This just isn't normal behavior and I hate that your kids are growing up seeing it as normal, and that you seem to accept it as normal too. You deserve better!

And finally, this! OP, DH and I are a couple of anxious, neurotic introverts. I'm not exaggerating, we really are. We have sleepovers and birthday parties and all the rest. Our house is like a zoo with no keeper at times. But we cope. In fact, we love it. It kills us and goes against our introverted ways, but we love it. You need to know that your DH's reactions shouldn't be brushed off as 'the ways of an anxious introvert'.