Moving in with my partner

[Gemlouiski]

Hi everyone.

I'm looking for people to share opinions on my current dilemma as I am so confused and stressed and I have zero people to talk to.

My partner on a year and I have been talking about living together. He is wonderful man. Great with my two boys from my previous relationship and our relationship is fantastic. By far the best one I've ever been in. I love him so much and he says he wants a future of marriage, a child of his own and to be a family all of us together. All things I would love. However the dilemma is this... he owns a house already. A 3 bed terrace in an area that we both acknowledge isn't the nicest place to bring up a family. I however live in a very nice family friendly area but I currently live with my father. Who is retired. Single and cant drive. He doesn't need constant care but I like to be there for him obviously as I hate the thought of him being alone. My eldest boy is happy and settled in a lovely school after a rocky start in his first one and being moved. My littlest is happy at nursery. However my area is quite expensive. My partner is open to moving as he feels we would need a bigger house to live comfortably. But the properties available in my area that are within budget are not to his taste. They are older 70s style houses and he like modern and something aesthetically pleasing. To be fair to him there are hardly any properties available in his budget anyway.

So we started looking down near his family. A nice much cheaper area towards the coast where he can afford a big new build. It's a gorgeous house for sure. Close to his family. However a very long commute for him to work and an hour and a half from my family. Which I wouldnt mind if it werent for the fact my dad cant drive, and has no friends or partner. I am so worried he will be lonely if I live so far. And how I will care for him as he gets older. My other huge worry is of course my eldest. Moving him to a new school again. I'm not sure I can do that to him he is so happy where he is.

So my question is... am I being unreasonable for not wanting to move so far away? I realise my partner is offering us a new life. Beautiful family home and willing to take on a ready made family. But the truth is I would happily live in any property with him as I love him so much I just want us to be a family. But I also still want to be able to be there for my father and I'm petrified of uprooting my children.

Any advice or opinions welcome. Thank you

So he's made it clear he doesn't want to be married?

Mmmm.... happy to buy a house and for you plus children to move in though. I am certainly not old-fashioned, but this does smack of putting the horse way before the cart and way way waaaaaaaaaaay too early still. You could move in with your family and find out that you don't enjoy living together and then what happens? Yet more disruption for your children.

Put your children first OP. And give it another year. Get to know him way better. And if he does not want marriage and you do, then he is not the man for you. At least you know that before committing to him any further.

It strikes me as odd that he does not want marriage but wants to buy a house and move you all in. Very odd.

Oh OP, after I was defending him as well... He shoots himself in the foot! I'm so sorry you're in this dilemma, but without sounding patronising- well done for approaching this in an adult way and discussing the difficult issues and future commitment (s).

Personally I'd take him at his word and know he's not interested in getting married. This is a bit concerning on the basis he is quite happy to bring a baby in the world, which is far more of a commitment than engagement.
Not to mention you taking 1/2 of his assets, comes across quite selfish- that shouldn't be the first thing to cross his mind, when he's about to move in with the love of his life. You know?
I was in a similar situation with my husband, I moved in to his owned property at 1.5yrs, we got married at 2yrs. At no point did me taking 1/2 of his assets cross his mind.

I would step back a bit and reflect on what has been said, and how that fits into how you see your future.
Do you really want baby number 3? Do you really want to get married? Or would you be happy in a local authority house with your 2 sons. Take a look at your council section, some LA houses are reasonably priced and in nice condition. Something to keep in mind.

Wishing you the best in your situation.

“he is quite happy to bring a baby in the world, which is far more of a commitment than engagement.” It really isn’t not for men. Unfortunately it’s all too easy for them to walk away from their children and dodge paying maintenance. We have appallingly lax enforcement in this country.

I am sorry that he has shown lack of genuine commitment to you.

Putting this into cold hard facts...Do you know ampujt of equity he has? An example if he has 50k, at best you would be eligible for 25k, which would only happen if you had a child and were married for a reasonable amount of time. Given you would have uprooted your sons, carried his child, then taken mat leave and provide childcare, would this really be an outrageous (ransom level!) of benefit for your "investment"? Men often dismiss the level of intangible investments women make and only see ££.

He has at least revealed that he is not really prepared to take on your family. He is entitled to that view but he needs to be open and not mislead you.

@Graphista, yes without marriage a man's investment is approx 10% payments until 18. They retain 90% of their income. From the way some men talk you assume they lose a vast sum.

From the way some men talk you assume they lose a vast sum.

Ha! Ain't that the truth!!

You will feel a lot less stressed once you make a decision and settle down to living in the present again. Your children are happy- what more could you possibly want? Please please don't risk their happiness by even thinking about moving away from everything that makes them feel safe and happy. Even hearing you talk about these huge changes will upset and worry them. Continue how you are for now. You don't need a new and 'better' life as the one you have now, living in nice area, children happy and settled and being able to care for your dad is more than good enough.

@Graphista - what an appalling assumption about men.
Pretty sure a piece of rock & metal doesn't require as much time and effort as a child.

Don't know what type of men you know, but most would run the hell away from the prospect of children and not have a second thought about a cheap ring and a promise of a marriage, that will never happen.

For both men and women, children is a massive prospect and should be treated as such.

Not an assumption at all the voice of experience!

And not just my own ex by a very long way but what I have observed and heard of many many times over.

Backed up by statistics too when you look at how many men are not in their children's lives even 5 years after a split and how many are not and in many cases never have paid cm.

I have a few, a very few men in my life who treat people decently including having remained fully engaged with children from a prior relationship and paying a decent amount of cm without having to be chased.

Out of the hundreds of men I know/have known from all walks I of life I can count those men literally on one hand.

Definitely not assumption not by any stretch.

@Idea86 actually - here's a question. How many of the men you know:

Treat people decently including exes?

Are fully involved with their dc, not just Disney dadding, go to school events, medical appointments and are generally properly supportive?

Pay a decent amount of cm NOT just the state authorised minimum AND without having to be chased either by the rp or the state?

I don't actually expect you to come back here and say "ah well um..." and admit it's usually the case that men generally are pretty shit these days as fathers, especially after a split.

But I think it highly likely you'll have a personal epiphany on going through the list of men you know and realising actually yes they could be behaving a damn sight better than they currently do.

I was going to say both of my exes fell at your second hurdle, graphista, never mind the third, but then it struck me that this disqualifies them from meeting the first one.

In my social and work circle, I know one man who did the majority of the childcare and put his own job second whilst his wife built a stellar career (she is excellent in her field) and my neighbour who from appearances looks like he does do his fair share of child-related activities.

The other side of the coin is how many separated dads have girlfriends or partners doing childcare for them when they have their DC. You just need to look at the step-parents board on here.

That is not to say there are not decent men out there, but an awful lot of them are not pulling their weight, and put their own needs first even when DC come along.

@Graphista - in my social circle all of the men I know fully participate in their childrens lives. As I said, I don't know what type of men you know.

My dad was amazing, he took me on when my mum left. She didn't pay CM at all. My dad gave her 30% of his monthly salary for my sibling.

One of my dear friends has full custody of his son, he's an amazing dad. They do everything together.

Another works part-time to look after the kids, because his ex wife was/is the breadwinner.

I don't think you should tarnish all men with the same brush and it is an assumption, unless you know them personally.

From my experience - All the guys I've dated (2+ years) would rather have their teeth pulled without anaesthesia, than to have a child. All of my exes are pushing upward of 36 and still don't have children. Again, it's the people you know shrug

@KTJean that tallies with my experience

@Idea86 - that's pretty much the reply I expected to get from you. But based on my own experiences AND statistical evidence I am sceptical that ALL the men you know are good, decent men fully involved in their dcs lives whether still with the mother or not, who do their fair share of the mental load and chores and if separated pay decent cm without having had to be pursued for it.

I wonder just how wide your circle is and if you fully know the situation of all of them including their partners/exes perspectives.

Of the decent men I referred to 3 of them are/were single dads, 2 are currently still with their wives.

Of the rest, coming on for nearly 150 guys I do know well enough to know their situations in this regard they all have failed on at least one of the list I made. Which as KTJean rightly points out actually automatically means they fail on point 1

I've heard ALL the excuses inc "it's better for the dc to have a fresh start without me in the picture" and all the sob stories about being skint and overworked when they still have money for beers at the weekend, to run cars, go on holidays and still have time to go on holidays, date new girlfriends, go on nights out...

There's a huge problem in this country with men not being expected to be decent fathers or perhaps more accurately the bar for a "good dad" is shockingly and embarrassingly low!

That needs to change, it needs to be made socially unacceptable to ignore and neglect your kids from a previous relationship by barely seeing them and either not paying cm or paying an insulting amount/manipulating your "income" to pay less.

Personally I'd be all for naming and shaming non payers, better still automatically deduct cm at a decent rate from wages and clamp down on the self employed crap.

I suspect if we did that there'd actually be fewer dc created in the first place as men would step up on the contraceptive side of things.

Although that isn't the whole story as I know plenty of men who've been shitty dads to long term planned dc, even ones conceived via fertility treatment which is truly shocking.

I'd also - seemingly contrarily - stop dads who don't take a proper, full interest in their dc from being able to flit in and out of their lives on a whim.

Sadly trying to force someone to love their kids doesn't work and would do more harm to the dc if we tried to.

Regarding the "type of men I know" they are honestly from all walks of life, all classes, all educational and socio-economic backgrounds, all over uk & other countries too. Very broad range in that respect.

@Graphista - I'm not sure what point you're really trying to get at. Unfortunately your quote: 'children are a lesser commitment to men.' is an assumption and a very unfair one at that.

You can't sling around statements like that and I vehemently disagree with it.

Sure I agree with people being named and shamed for abandoning their child both emotionally and financially, but thats a different thing entirely and not at all what I have an issue with.

How is

"abandoning their child both emotionally and financially"

Not the same as men not seeing children as a true commitment? What do you think makes it so easy for them to do those things with not only a clean conscience but often feeling completely justified in what they've done?

Also I don't believe that was my quote looking back at my posts, though I don't disagree with it.

It's only unfair if it isn't generally true - which ime and that of very many others and which many stats show it is generally true currently in the uk that

A separated dad/nrp within 5 years of the split will likely have no relationship with their dc (stats vary between 1 in 3 to 1 in 5 at the 5 year point and it increases each year post split)

Child maintenance - official figures 1/3 pay none at all, another 1/3 underpay/pay irregularly and that's not including the ones exploiting "legal" loopholes.

@Idea86, I would say your experience with fathers is unrepresentative. In my NCT group 100% of the Dads who divorced have been mostly absent and non paying fathers. In my case Ex would swear he is a great Dad but he pays the minimum, despite very high earnings and priorises his work and gf ahead of DC. He will definitely be spinning another story to outsiders which will he believable as he is plausible. He even fought in court for more contact but drops DC when it suits him so I am constantly let down which impacts my work.

@Graphista but those same obstacles apply when it's women who are not full custodians of their children. They too fail to see their children and make CSA payments. The statistics also don't refer to people who pay in kind with clothes/food/toiletries because they live in poverty and can't afford to make CSA payments.

I'd be very careful with making claims 'it's the truth.' I can't repeat it enough. Until you know someone's circumstances or situation, that statement is an assumption and doesn't hold anyway weight in 'facts.'

@techway - Perhaps it may well be. I'm middle class, majority of my friends or associates either don't have children, are married with children. The guys who had children young-ish, are actually the custodians of their children and have a completely different experience to your NCT group, in that the mother doesn't pay or visit.

Both circumstances are equally shitty and shouldn't be tolerated.

Personally I refused to have children till I was married, because I feel that children are the bigger commitment. Marriage offers protections to some degree, especially financially.

@Idea86, I was married so were others and all were very typical of middle class men, working in a finance, IT and media. Whilst marriage does provide more security the courts are now reducing that security. Typically 50% of assets and spousal maintenance for max of 3 years so any women who did support a spouses career will suffer financially as after 3 years it will be standard CMS. That has to cover all childcare and children's costs so mothers are (as reports show) demonstrably worse off post divorce whereas men are wealthier. Yet the belief is nen are hard done by. Given nearly half of all marriages fail then a large percentage of women are affected. I thought I had married a good man, until he wasn't a good man!

Those of us who have their eyes opened feel it is important to tell other women

@Techway - I don't disagree starting a family is more likely to impact a woman, especially if they take maternity leave or become a homemaker.

What I refuse to agree with is the notion that children are less of a commitment to men, based on anecdotal evidence. My experience is completely the opposite to yours, my social circle have completely different experiences to yours - and that's fine, that doesn't make you 'right' or me to be ignorant or naive eyes open

Unfortunately UK CMS doesn't provide demographic data i.e. Gender/income, so to argue about it is pointless anyway.

I would look at dads trying to advocate for their rights, which is also a systemic issue. Speak to single fathers and discuss the discrimination they have encountered whilst fighting for custody of their children, due to their gender. My dear friend I spoke about in one of my earlier posts has been all too enlightening, which is why I take much grievance over said statement.

I really quite simply do not believe that there are loads of single dads out there where the mother does not visit or pay idea86. Statistics tell us that nine out of ten single parent families are headed by a woman. Even the separated dads website acknowledges that 31% of separated dads do not pay maintenance (although it manages to blame the system rather than the fathers).

In my experience being married made no difference, just more expense as you have to sort the child arrangements out legally when you separate where I live, which is entirely separate from the question of maintenance.

@Idea86
I don't disagree starting a family is more likely to impact a woman, especially if they take maternity leave
You know women who do NOT take maternity leave?

I am old enough to remember the outrage and complaint when the first version of the Child Support Agency was introduced in 1993. Yes, the first few years of the CSA were full of bungling and errors, but much of the complaint in the press seemed to be from men who were utterly affronted that it was no longer possible to have a guilt-free sexual encounter and let any consequences be the woman's problem.

Within our living memory it really was possible to leave a woman 'holding the baby', unless she had the money and nous to pursue a man through the courts. These ideas take a long, long time to die.

@idea86 “but women do it too” whataboutery is pathetic!

Anyone familiar with my posts on the subject actually know I frequently point out myself that women as nrps are just as shitty and I have personal knowledge of that.

Doesn’t excuse the huge numbers of men who are shitty dads.

“The statistics also don't refer to people who pay in kind with clothes/food/toiletries because they live in poverty and can't afford to make CSA payments.” Oh puhlease!! Cms (Csa closed years ago btw) requirements do not demand payment from people in true poverty! The payments are minimal!

Payment “in kind” usually happens when the nrp usually a man is desperately trying to exercise control over their ex.

“What I refuse to agree with is the notion that children are less of a commitment to men, based on anecdotal evidence” but it’s NOT just anecdotal evidence - it’s backed up by the evidence from the courts, social services, nhs and cms.

You’re railing against what I and others saying similar are saying but YOUR evidence really IS not only anecdotal but very minimal.

Yet you’re using that experience to try and claim that what happens across the country doesn’t.