Divorcing sulking H - will it happen in 2020?

[jamaisjedors]

So this is my FIFTH thread, and no, I'm still not divorced and probably won't be in 2020 as my exH is refusing to sign the initial papers and so this could drag on until 2021 (2 years after our separation) when I can divorce him without his consent.

First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Fourth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3637219-DIVORCING-sulking-H?msgid=92845754#92845754

saw me going to court to safeguard the DC through a request for full custody with limited visiting rights.

With the help of my great lawyer we got the decision we wanted from the judge but the battle never ends over every little thing - schools, activities, money...

Now I am at the stage of entering financial negotiations with exH through lawyers and solicitors plus he has appealed the judge's initial decision so we have to go back to court in mid-February.

Fun start to the New Year which is why, a whole year on, I still need the support and advice of all of those who've been through similar situations or who are just naturally wise !

I have also come a very long way this year.

Leaving a controlling and emotionally/verbally abusive relationship was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Actually NO, the hardest thing I ever did was STAY in that relationship so long in a bid to keep our family together and make it work.

I'd love to think that by sharing this journey on here it might help others who are doubting their strength and capacity to leave - my life is a million times better now although I still have a lot of healing to do.

Did the kids comment on how dad was if he'd hit rock bottom? Is he hiding it from them, or for attention from friends

So having tried unsuccessfully to force you to speak to him alone after the house valuation - he is now sending in the flying monkeys to guilt you into participating in his pity party!

If he really is at rock bottom then that would normally be a reason to reduce contact - not to increase it to make the dc responsible for his MH. Personally I would just shut down the flying monkeys with something vague like "we are following the court order owing to h's medical situation".

To me it sound as though he doesn't want to accept the separation and is trying to guilt to into contact with him - it sounds like that he is no longer following he treatment programme if he is sinking back to "rock bottom" - is it possible that your lawyer can raise his possible treatment non-compliance as part of the appeal? Get an updated assessment or request medical evidence that you dh is stable/treated to support his appeal that his mh has improved enough to make overnights a possibility?

Ffs I want to bang your friends’ heads together. Were they paying attention when your DH lost custody in the first place because he wasn’t mentally stable? And now they’re saying “he’s in a really bad mental place ergo he should see the children more”?

Words fail me 🤦‍♀️

He is so arrogant he has never believed the doctors, it is likely he has taken himself off the medication. I think you should insinuate in the hearing, that as people tell you he appears depressed, & that you wonder if he is following the medication protocol.

& Meanwhile knocking about alone in the evenings is not to his liking. So called out the flying monkeys to try & manipulate you further.

god I did the right thing posting - very wise words so that I "give my head a wobble" !

Absolutely. Poor old exH is sad, he spent years working every evening and complaining at the slightest noise or interruption and made us all feel like we were bothering him by just breathing.

When discussing a possible separation he even said how great it would be to have every other week to himself to focus totally on work.

So now the house feels empty and he's all alone

So the kids should be used to prop him up and help him get through this difficult time. NO NO NO NO.

I think this is what I'm going to reply to the friend - It's very sad that exH is feeling so down and he is lucky to have friends to support him in this. He also needs now to find his own (internal or external) resources to help him through this difficult time.

The best thing ExH can do now is to work hard to get better and to prove to the judge that he is well enough to take care of the DC, and not for the DC to have to take care of him.

In fact depression is one of the predicted side-effects/consequences of a psychotic episode so this was pretty predictable.

We could use this in the appeal, I will talk to my lawyer but we would probably have to get written testimonies from his friends or family which of course they wouldn't give.

However we can certainly suggest that one of the side-effects is depression and we are concerned that EXH is not doing anything to deal with that (he has provided no medical info at all this time round so we have no idea what his mental/physical state is - which is our main argument for maintaining restrictions on visiting rights).

And it's not his children's job to make him feel better, or support him in his emotional health. They are not his parents. Or his friends.

They have every right to be protected from negative impact of their fathers rather extreme mental health issues, and no doubt are still suffering from previous recent events.

Could you email friends back, would an email conversation be admissible?

If he wants to maintain that he has recovered and should now be able to have the children for overnight stays, surely the courts should expect a letter of support from his medical team and not just go on his heresay. After such a severe mental health episode, one would hope that this was the case and that he would be keen to prove his recovery in this way.

He seems more focussed on still controlling you via the children though currently.

I think that your lawyer should pursue the medical situation. The original 1 year order was made on the basis of his psychotic breakdown and that a period of recovery, treatment and transition was necessary. He is appealing so should therefore be able to show that he is doing much better than expected.

There seems to be a huge contradiction between getting his friends to tell you that his mental state is really bad and that he is at "rock bottom" and wanting extra time with the children.

I think that he is delusional and still thinks he can guilt you into coming back

I think that he is delusional and still thinks he can guilt you into coming back

I think this is probably the truth and was also the basis of our previous case in court, he is minimising his mental health issues and insisting on joint custody.

He produced a discharge letter in July, which we argued over in court - he obviously maintained it was favourable and we pointed out the issues but the judge said she was not a doctor and it was difficult to say who was right (but obviously erred on the side of caution and also took into account all the emails which exH helpfully provided which show him totally ignoring my pleas to take things slowly and take time to get well before having the kids alone.)

I'm not in a position to say whether or not he is delusional, or how his mental health issues are impacting on him. What I am fairly sure about is that all of what he has said and done (and continues to say and do) falls well within the remit of controlling and coercive abuse. Barring him recognising this, and seeking help to change this will continue and crucially he will not change. And crucially you cannot help him. As I said detaching is the best thing for you all going forward albeit hard to get your head around.

You are doing brilliantly, but he has still managed to push himself right back into your headspace with all the angst, directly and via your friends and using the DC as cover.

Not a criticism at all. I have been there myself. The relationship dynamic continues after separation.

@Gutterton and @jamaisjedors
I absolutely need to be able to step back and heal and get some headspace.

Every time something like this happens, my sleep goes to pot or my eczema breaks out.

The problem is that these (male) friends do not see how triggering all of this is, despite having been heavily affected themselves by the whole situation.

I guess people think that because I am positive and getting on with life that I am fine and so it's "poor" exh who needs the support now.

oops @MsPavlichenko

What about
Dear Sam
I appreciate fully why you got in touch re exh and how he was feeling. But after years of abusive behaviour that nobody was aware of, I find this quite triggering. I appreciate that you're worried about him, but until the authorities deem him fit to have the ch overnight he can't and the ch are not there to support him, they're still children. However, if there comes a point that you're worried about the children's safety I would appreciate an urgent email highlighting your concerns. And obviously if you're worried about dh then please get in touch with the police or his doctor. As we're divorcing I'm afraid that I can't take on that role anymore. Thank you for your friendship, it means the world.

Just like exh experts you to look after him as he's down, so do his friends

I would add in

"I am recovering from his years of abuse whilst being solely responsible for the DC, I am sure you appreciate that this is exhausting and my priority" then go on "we are divorcing and ExH's is no longer my concern unless it impacts on DC and whether contact needs to stop"

Jamais your mind and body has been under assault for decades and the last year the worst.

You really need to look after yourself for your DCs - they only have one functional parent currently. They don’t need to lose you to depression or another auto-immune disease.

Draw a line in the sand. Be v overt with the friends that being “in it” is unsustainable to your MH and is not relevant to the future.

Turn your back on all talk of him. He is not your concern - you need to preserve, conserve, restore and prioritise your own MH.

Ok writing the email now.

I'm reluctant to say anything about being fragile myself because I don't want it used against me (just as I could use the email against exH).

But I will mention that I need to move on now and not hear about his health etc.

Although I worry when I DON'T hear about his health because of the children being exposed to him. So perhaps the phrase about the children being in danger and warning me would be good too.

Maybe say that it 'sets you back' when you hear from him or about him? I agree with not saying anything about your own mh being compromised.

I'd say as little as possible. Just that you are now separate, and as such want to get on with your lives apart. I'd hope any genuine friends would inform you if they had any serious concerns about the DC so I'd leave that out.

Some of the best advice I ever got was, you can't control what others think about you/your choices. It has helped me often, especially during my break up. My XH had his narrative, I had mine. Friends and family their own opinions.

Years later I have mostly the same friends/friendships with ILS. He does too. We both have newer ones too. Those that chose another approach I genuinely don't give headspace to.

It seems that these people have yet to truly understand that you and the kids are no longer available to pander to your ex and support all of his issues - especially when he is being so adversarial regarding the divorce, finances and custody.

Why are they putting the emphasis on you supporting his mh - isn't this now their job as his friends. Perhaps you should tell these people that if they feel that ex's mh is declining once again that they should urge him to seek professional help. They probably don't want the fallout of his anger - but neither do you!

If you haven’t sent yet- how about “the vest way to support ExH is to encourage him to be responsible for his own self care and direct him to the appropriate professionals. He has previously minimised his own mental health issues and not been able to seek help when necessary so if he can start to do this I believe that would be a step forward for him “

That way you’re making a constructive suggestion which doesn’t require you being involved at all

*best