Divorcing sulking H - will it happen in 2020?

[jamaisjedors]

So this is my FIFTH thread, and no, I'm still not divorced and probably won't be in 2020 as my exH is refusing to sign the initial papers and so this could drag on until 2021 (2 years after our separation) when I can divorce him without his consent.

First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Fourth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3637219-DIVORCING-sulking-H?msgid=92845754#92845754

saw me going to court to safeguard the DC through a request for full custody with limited visiting rights.

With the help of my great lawyer we got the decision we wanted from the judge but the battle never ends over every little thing - schools, activities, money...

Now I am at the stage of entering financial negotiations with exH through lawyers and solicitors plus he has appealed the judge's initial decision so we have to go back to court in mid-February.

Fun start to the New Year which is why, a whole year on, I still need the support and advice of all of those who've been through similar situations or who are just naturally wise !

I have also come a very long way this year.

Leaving a controlling and emotionally/verbally abusive relationship was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Actually NO, the hardest thing I ever did was STAY in that relationship so long in a bid to keep our family together and make it work.

I'd love to think that by sharing this journey on here it might help others who are doubting their strength and capacity to leave - my life is a million times better now although I still have a lot of healing to do.

Some of the best advice I ever got was, you can't control what others think about you/your choices.

This is what i need to bear in mind when I'm tempted to try and justify my choices and worry what people think of me.

My email still in a draft form, but I had started writing something like this:

the best way to support ExH is to encourage him to be responsible for his own self care and direct him to the appropriate professionals

So far I have thanked him for his concern and support of exh.

I have repeated what he himself says kn his email about me not being responsible for exh's mental health and that the kids aren't either and will not be used to prop him up.

I have said that the only person who can change the current access arrangements is exh, by focusing on getting better and proving that he is better and able to take care of them adequately.

I'm not going to add anything about my mh but will if he writes back (ie I will ask him to stop).

Holy crap! Kids are not antidepressants, they are people, and they are vulnerable. How dare “The Men” lean on you to provide children as a tool to help ex out of a hole he’s dug for himself.
It should be pointed out that perhaps ex is finally realizing that this is his life now. This is his reality and he has to accept it. He can’t change it. The mantrums don’t work.

ex is finally realizing that this is his life now. This is his reality and he has to accept it.

Haha, this is also something I have put in the draft and was just wondering whether to keep it in.

We have discussed at length with this friend how unhealthy exh's anger is/has been so I have said something about how his anger has until now stopped him going through the grieving process which he now has to face.

Something around

I only need to be informed of Ex health when there is a risk of it impacting on the DC well being.

Also Ex needs to be able to evidence to the court that he is well enough for contact to change, after all its not up to you!

So, sent it, used lots of the suggestions here and also cited a friend of ours who has mental health problems and despite having almost full custody of his son, has tried to commit suicide several times (and his son has found him ).

Just to point out that NO the kids will not be his crutch and that anyway, for someone with mental health problems, the kids being there more won't solve them.

If friend gets back to me or gets into a discussion about it I will say that I only want informing if there is a risk to the kids, otherwise I need to get on with my life and exH needs to find other means of support.

Well done KOKO

Well done, sounds perfect

I would suggest being quite blunt to these male friends and let them know that you have divested yourself of one manipulative, controlling man and that kind of crap isn’t going to work for you any more. It is not your job to feel sorry for him or “fix” him. It is not the kids. You don’t want to hear about it at all as it serves no purpose.

So the friend has replied. He says I'm right.

But he would have liked to be able to send exH a positive sign so that he doesn't fall totally into despair.

But there is no way that right now I'm making any promises which could be used against me during the appeal.

He'll just have to sort himself out and his friends can help him with that.

He'll just have to sort himself out and his friends can help him with that.

Absolutely. Not your job to help or to even give it headspace.

I wouldn't even bother to reply to be honest.

Good reply. And yes I'd leave it there. To be blunt your friend doesn't get it regardless of what he has said or he wouldn't have mentioned sending a "positive sign'

I'd now withdraw from all communication about him.

Also. Steel yourself for a possible new" crisis" from him. He is realising the control is sleeping away so be prepared.

Slipping away.

What is the "positive sign" though ?
You are not in a position to go against the access order..

Definitely grey rock approach "it's not up to me"

I guess a positive sign is telling exh that he is not going to lose the kids forever and that the current access arrangements are not forever either.

I have said that in the past several times by email when I have tried to explain to exH why I went to court and what my objectives are/were.

He doesn't hear it, so won't hear it now, but I think for our friend, who is quite open and receptive himself, it is difficult to believe that exH can't/won't understand.

I myself have had to be reminded by my lawyer (and mners!) that just because I would listen or be capable of hearing exh's point of view, doesn't mean he can.

positive sign = “I am getting what I want”.

He has been successful with this manoeuvre involving your friend. You have him going round and round in your head first thing in the morning.

It's not about the DC. He understands what is going on. And why. As you said he was not fuseed about maximising time with them when you were together.

Trjy to get your headspace back. It's easy to get sucked back in.as I know myself.

this is the cruz of it - he doesnt hear what anyone tells him, he doest trust that they are telling him the truth because of his paranoia and, because he is manipulative , he assumes everyone else has a hidden agenda.
It does also seem that he doesnt really listen much to professionals either - not if they point out stuff that he doesnt like or that doesnt feed into his narrative - hence his previous denials about his own MH treatment and also the request to stop the kids seeing anyone.
It must be hard for him - he has been used to being the oracle and believing in his infallibility, so this exposure of his failings coming from all angles instigated by you (in his mind) is bound to be really difficult for him.
BUT thats not your problem to fix. It shows that living with him, exposing the boys to his control daily as 'normal' was damaging, and as has been stated, it is neither your job, nor theirs, to rebuild his castle build on sand.
Only he can decide whether he actually engages and is prepared to do the hard work it will take to get better, or less dysfunctional. Or whether he will simply sweep everything under the table and attempt to carry on as before. I think he is trying the latter at the moment and pulling out all the tricks to try to put everything back in its place. Obviously that is not going to happen. He hasnt hit rock bottom - this is simply another form of manipulation designed to reset back to his normal.
Its pretty much following the scipt, but with a psychiatric unit thrown in for good measure - The script to get the family back - rotating emotions and using the weak spots. So anger, sadness, pity, begging, threatening, threatening suicide, making promises to change, making promises to do things youve always wanted, bribery, threats to remove the kids, proclaimations of love, attacks at your weak points, and then round through them all again.

I am not sure he will hear it until the divorce is signed and stamped and everything divided up and finished.

Im not 100% sure he will hear it even then. He still thinks its a silly idea all in your head. But hopefully by then you will be more immune to his stuff.

also yy about not being about the kids. havent there been several times when he inconveniently didnt take up contact because he needed to do something?

Its emotional blackmail. Designed to make you sorry for him and for him to get you to do what he wants, against the court order. Which is very specific. And is already going to be discussed at the appeal. And would be used against you.

A positive sign so he doesn't fall into despair. Give me strength!
I would leave it there, no further reply. It's like screaming into the wind.

Turn your energy towards yourself. Ex and those emailing on his behalf don't deserve even a smidgen of it.

NettleTea

havent there been several times when he inconveniently didnt take up contact because he needed to do something?

If you think you need to reinforce things to the friend, remind him of this. There have been numerous times when XH should have had the DC but CHOSE TO WORK INSTEAD. So to bleat now about not having enough access is hypocrisy of the highest order.

what a relationship should be about : mutual respect, tolerance and unconditional love

This, combined with getting your friends to try and guilt you into feeling sorry for him and cto get you to cave says to me he is just as manipulative and controlling as he ever was.

Mutual respect - sounds like he thinks you didn't respect him enough.

Tolerance - of his unreasonable behaviour and expectations.

Unconditional love - you're supposed to still love him no matter how abusive and controlling he is.

He sounds to me like he has not changed at all and I would be wary of him seeming reasonable. To me it feels completely like an act. Another manipulation tactic to make you feel like actually he might be starting to see sense.

He isn't.

He shouldn't be telling friends that he's hit rock bottom and getting them to ask things of you that are inappropriate. And they shouldn't be pandering to him as that just reinforces his warped view that what he thinks and feels is right. They should be all referring him to professional for mental health support so he can get himself on track. Not relying on his children for his strength of mind.

I hope that you can still see through it jamais . I know you're doing lots of reading and self care so you probably do see it.

I think the 'woe is me' is because he's no longer in control of the situation. It's not actually about you or the kids, but about him realising he may not necessarily get his own way on this... possibly for the first time in a long time.

Hello jamais,

just delurking because I read this today and it made me think of you and your situation:

longreads.com/2020/01/15/whatever-happened-to-______/

Not that you need telling that you have done the right thing, but you have, the way you are rebuilding your life. Hope you find it an interesting read too.

Your friends are acting as Flying Monkeys- very common when dealing with narcissists.

narcissistabusesupport.com/red-flags/use-flying-monkeys/