Is a man who's been violent always like a dog that's bitten?

[GilbertMarkham]

Has anyone ever had a long term relationship in which a man who was violent (during a time of extreme conflict for example) not be violent again?

Or are they like a dog who's bitten - only fit for the relationship equivalent of being put down.

They pop up in every thread.

Welcome to the internet?

My incipiently abusive ex actually ramped it up with his second wife and her DD. From my sample of 1, they're likely to be worse, the second time around.

Hiya Anyfucker, lovely to see you. This is a right old ding song isnt it? How are you? Xx

Hey@lolaflores I am dandy, thanks.

FFS can you not do your catch ups in private messaging if you're all that fond of each other, instead of in my thread

Welcome to the internet?

MN seems to be particularly bad for it.

We can budge up on the mates bench @GilbertMarkham

Always happy to make room for people on the mates bench.

wirebrush your contribution to this thread has been measured and thoughtful.

OP reading your responses is kind of like watching someone have a fight with themselves in a sack while they loudly claim how amazing they are.

And that’s exactly what’s happening - you know really that you can’t continue within this relationship but all the contrasting elements of your conditioning are causing you this turmoil.

I don't think men who go over the line in their personal relationships and use violence really ever go back. A man who throws a punch after the pub/football match, maybe yeah. A man who thinks it ok to hit/punch/square up to his loved one - no. He has crossed a line. At best, you'll always wonder in every argument, whether NOW is the time he squares up to you. At worst he'll hit you.

I also think you were drawn to each other because you both are drawn to escalating confrontation - you verbally and him verbally and then physically. The very first time you were like a terrier in an argument with my dh, he'd have thought "lovely woman but not one I could live with" and would have been off. The very moment your partner showed any signs of reacting physically - even if squaring off/pushing into my space in an argument I'd have said "fuck this for a game of cowboys" and been off. Loads of men and women would be the same.

But you got together twice and are now spiralling into more confrontation and angst. This is not a good environment for your daughter. He is way worse than you because he gets physical when stressed. How will that work with a teenager? I have had 3 pretty nice ones and it was still the most stressful time of my life. And honestly, you'd better address your inability to step down WELL before your dd becomes a teenager or you will do her some serious damage.

If I were you I'd get out of this relationship. I would also see someone to discuss your reaction to stress/confrontation/arguments. And expect your ex to do the same. You both owe this to your child.

he gets physical when stressed.

Quite honestly I could employ three people to correct the statements on this thread and keep them in work; and yet posters wonder why I have been so frustrated.

He doesn't get physical when he's stressed. He has an extremely stressful job and raising a toddler from newborn so far has been among the most (ongoing) stressful experiences for both of us .... He has gotten physical on losing his temper on two occasions 15 yrs ago. And he started v having in a physically intimidating, of that's the right word, way when he list his temper on Sunday. ( He also acted in a milder way than that about a year ago).

Sorry I forgot to finish the first paragraph by saying that if he got physical when stressed he'd be "physical" every week.

This is not to say that I don't think the relationship ending is not a possible or even the best solution. Just to be clear that it had happened with a loss of temper during escalating, sustained arguments.

Which again - are v occasional if not rare.

I don't think I even bothered corre ting anyfuckers bizarre account of me watching my mum be abused and learning my childhood lesson - which was somehow interpreted from me saying that my mum has a head deeving character but found a good, tolerant partner in my late Dad.

I was like ... What??!!!

But as I said you're supposed to take all this without getting remotely frustrated or arsey.

Were you able to take anything of value from the thread to help you make any decisions?

He has gotten physical on losing his temper on two occasions 15 yrs ago. And he started v having in a physically intimidating, of that's the right word, way when he list his temper on Sunday. ( He also acted in a milder way than that about a year ago).

This is actually what I read first time around. I believe this to be what happened. You should still get out and end this relationship- he is not in control of his violence and you know it.

Your partner needs to deal with his anger and violence issues or he will not be fit to parent a child and he will be especially terrifying rearing a teenager who pushes his buttons.

Also this

I am extremely feisty, harsh and cannot let anything go.

YOU better deal with that before you are parenting a teenager.

For that matter, do you think someone could be violent in a relationship with one person die to their dynamic, but not another?

Of course not. & this sounds so offensive and indefensible🙄. Horrible.

It'll be one of those 'My ex was a bitch & drove me to it but I'd never do it to you babe' loser waste of space men who WILL do same to you eventually and then you will be the 'crazy bitch ex' next.

I wouldn't touch a man who'd been violent to any woman. They sicken me. I don't know why you'd even take the risk of being with someone as abhorrent as that.

For that matter, do you think someone could be violent in a relationship with one person due to their dynamic, but not another?*

I often asked myself that question about my ex, as he’d always told me his ex before me never had an argument with him, and was always compliant and passive.

He never said she was a ‘psycho ex’ or ‘crazy’ and all the things you read that violent men say about their partner, shifting blame onto them.

That’s what made me think it was all my fault. It must be me if it never happened to his last girlfriend (she was his first girlfriend, I was his second).

Point is, our ‘dynamic’ was just fine only because I agreed with everything he wanted. As soon as I started trying to stand up for myself, that’s when it escalated into years of physical violence. It started the day I refused to use (his preference for) loose leaf tea anymore, and bought my own teabags.

I was also somewhat masochistic, thinking the best way to tune out of the bad stuff was to go mute and frozen to the spot (which I used to do as a child when my mum hit me), in my warped thinking I was being invincible and strong by taking that defensive stance, he ‘couldn’t touch me’ whilst he was hurting me.

So yeah, a violent man may not hit the next woman he’s with, but it’s dormant, and if she ever crosses the line, he’s already learnt he can put her right back into her place by lashing out, because it worked before.

I’ll never know what he was like with his girlfriend before me. But I’ll always keep his daughter away from him because of what he was like with me.

My abusive ex did “an alternative to violence course” it didn’t change anything, he refused all offers of counselling too.
He hit me again and I reported him, arrested and charged, he did a course then as it was a condition of the court - he then had to sit with other “low life’s” - his words!!
I had to have some dealings with him, he still blames me, I provoked him, I shafted him, I wanted him out of the house and I had it all planned!!!
If your partner wants to change and take responsibility he will seek help.
You will see what he thinks when you have a further conversation.

You also need to seek help for yourself. You cannot keep poking a dog and not expect it to attack. You also must learn to walk away.
You partner told you verbally to leave it but you continued. You both need to walk away and come back together when you both have calmed down.
Sounds to me like he’s trying but there are no gaurentees.
From what I’ve read they are unlikely to change with the current partner but may do so with the next.
I also did not want my son growing up in a toxic enviroment as I did as a child.

The thing is, OP, you are asking a hypothetical question ("can a man who has been violent to his partner in the past ever be trusted?") about a specific situation - and in this situation, you already KNOW the answer.

Your partner has been violent towards you in the past. Now there have been two occasions during arguments where you felt that he was starting to become physically threatening again. You know him, and you know the signals that act as a precursor to his violence.

This is no longer a hypothetical situation about what "might" happen - it is already happening. It doesn't matter whether it is technically possible for some violent partners to reform - the fact is that this one hasn't.

So we can argue the whys and wherefores of potential partners who may or may not change, whether it is about entitlement or learned responses or stress, whether anger management works or is a waste of time - none of that is relevant to your particular situation. Your partner has demonstrated that he has not changed.

Best of luck, OP.

Re our dd, some posters believe I should separate to protect her from the potential of him becoming aggressive at some point in the future if he loses his temper when she's being "challenging" etc.

Theoretically, how exactly would I control his access (he will probably go for access at weekends due to his job) .. am I supposed to go through the courts or SS to insist on supervised access for the next 16 years on the basis that he was violent toward me 15 years ago (I wouldn't even know the dates) and that I felt he was becoming physically intimidating during to arguments during the last year (the first, not so much)?? Is that even likely to be considered?

Then there's the fact that I'd be pursuing that against a man who had been a highly involved, responsible father who's put in loads of effort with our DD in spite of having a v demanding job, and could say he often had more patience with her than me eg when she's being a typical tantrummy toddler. That's both unfair to some extent and likely to do the exact opposite of what we should be doing in a split - separating and co-parenting civilly, avoiding conflict etc.

You also need to seek help for yourself. You cannot keep poking a dog and not expect it to attack. You also must learn to walk away.
You partner told you verbally to leave it but you continued. You both need to walk away and come back together when you both have calmed down.

Yes, I take that on board.

If you are the partner he has been violent to (B) in the above, it is inevitable he will be violent again. Why wouldn't he? He's done it once and got away with it. Why wouldn't he think he can do it again

This is from quite early in the thread but I didn't get the chance to respond before; I agree in one way but in another I think "why wouldn't he?

Well why hasn't he in any of the normal, occasional (before I start getting piled on by a section of posters again) arguments/disagreements we've had in the course of the relationship from 15 yrs ago until we finished, then (after getting back together) during the marriage of 6/7 and in recent years having a baby?

Were you able to take anything of value from the thread to help you make any decisions?

Most definitely.

I should have done a voting button but in any case the vast majority of responses say "end your marriage", and a minority saying it may be worth him or both of us trying counselling.

*6/7 yrs