Is a man who's been violent always like a dog that's bitten?

[GilbertMarkham]

Has anyone ever had a long term relationship in which a man who was violent (during a time of extreme conflict for example) not be violent again?

Or are they like a dog who's bitten - only fit for the relationship equivalent of being put down.

@GilbertMarkham hahahaha

*has

Chances are your partner and family are more likely to experience your worst sides than anyone else.

Anonymous internet forums exist in their own bubble - people can be blunt/opinionated, offensive, goady etc on them and the responses are likewise.

@GilbertMarkham hahahaha

Can't stop demonstrating your calibre eh.

It is these exceptions - and what had happened fot the second time in recent yrs - that is worrying me.

What's particularly triggering for both you and him about these exceptions?

I'll answer your question op. The answer is no they don't change. If it's in the current relationship or the next one. If a man has it in him he has it in him. That doesn't change from woman to woman.
Now I'll apologise because I have only read up to 01.30. And I know from reading your posts that you don't want to hear that he will do this again.

Your poor DD.

.....she is much much less sensitive nowadays and is as likely to say something every sharp to me, which I usually let go because everyone she's an all-round v good person. If I thought I had hurt the feelings if a family member, it would if course make me upset and I would apologise/explain make peace about it. My sister's have commented drily that it would take a strong man to be a partner to me and take my sharp tongue etc.

Back to this.

Let me caveat this by saying that I'm just exploring my thoughts here and don't think that you necessarily should modify your behaviour for an 'abusive' partner.

But, if you can modify your behaviour for your sister why not your partner/husband on the basis that he's a good father/partner/husband and person as you've said yourself?

For the most part he must tolerate your personality traits (sharp tongue) if these are exceptions and all arguements don't escalate to this? Goes back to my previous post.

I broke up with my ex after he was violent a handful times over our 3 year relationship. We got back together after about a year and things were much better, for a good few years. After our Dd was born he, on occasion, started to being verbally abusive and caused arguments for nothing. He then started throwing and smashing things, punching holes in the walls and doors etc. Dd was terrified and used to hide and cry because of the shouting. His behaviour was becoming more frequent so I ended it for good when Dd was about 18 months. Though he never physically hit me again I believe he would have eventually had I not ended the relationship.

@GilbertMarkham 👌👀

It takes two to persist in an escalating argument. If someone feels it is getting too much they can always walk away. Like you do with a child when their behavior is provoking.
When an adult chooses instead to use physical strength to overcome and hurt the other person, then that is assault and it’s breaking the law.
OP, you come across as quite angry and I am not surprised, because you are in a real fix.
It’s really hard to leave a relationship where there has been domestic violence and it is very scary, and that can trigger the freeze/fight/flight responses.
One of the problems with being a victim of violence is that it really jars with your self-image, if you see yourself as a strong person.
That’s also a factor when some people don’t report things, or don’t tell friends or family.
To try to feel more powerful, or retain a feeling of control, some victims prefer to think that they caused the violence to happen by being argumentative.
Some men pick feisty women so that they can use that line of reasoning to blame the victim, or get her to blame herself.
I hope you can turn your strength and persistence now to extricating yourself from the relationship. I don’t think you will ever feel 100 per cent safe while you are with him and now you have your child to consider. This could trigger your “fight” response and make it more likely that a confrontation that turns physical will occur.

Really sorry that this has happened to you and that you are going through a tough time making the decision to leave

What's particularly triggering for both you and him about these exceptions?

I can't really remember the exact circumstances of the argument a year or so ago, this time I suppose there has been an above normal level of stress on both of us, from several/varying sources, for a period of time. And we'd both had even worse than usual sleep for the days before. I cant think of anything else standing out.

(Of course mentioning anything at all just leads to me being piled on for minimising and excusing).

I don't think it sounds like you are compatible and agree with the poster that said 50% of the time in a stable environment for a child is better than 100% of the time in an uncertain one.

And really, how do you measure the success of getting back together with a physical abuser? Do you get to his deathbed without another push or slap and think phew, I was right to continue the relationship after all?

I should emphasise that while I've answered the question about the triggers for that incident; I'm not saying there is an excuse.

There isn't. I just don't know of there is any merit in suggesting he get "help" before separating (or while separated) or not.

The other thing I've realised is that since he's changed career (into quite an adversarial profession) I feel like he's become more and more hard/rash/impatient/dismissive when we discuss things .. I feel like he's become a harder person all round .. and my reaction to that has been to not give an inch, to be very insistent etc because I feel like I would be a little softie being talked down to etc. It's hard to capture everything exactly. I suppose I also feel that way because his career has now totally eclipsed mine and I was off work doing nothing and didn't return to my pre maternity job due to relocation back to family.

Again it's not excusing his behaviour, bu I've realised I go at almost everything with him like a deer butting antlers because I think he's arrogant now .. I'm just waffling at this point.

Well, it sounds like you both like each other as people a lot less these days. Another reason to give it up as a bad job.

Kindness to each other and respect for each other are the basic foundations of all RS.

If you can’t or won’t give it to each other or don’t receive it from each other then call it a day and find someone else that you can create a calm and peaceful home with for your DD.

That’s all that matters - modelling love and giving her a stable secure emotional base to develop from. Adult RS politics are just irrelevant BS now that you have a child - her needs are your 100% focus and priority and you need to look closely to see if either of you or both of you need to adapt.

some victims prefer to think that they caused the violence to happen by being argumentative.

I don't think that at all - he had absolutely no right to be physically aggressive, intimidating or violent towards me in an argument.

Explaining how an argument escalated is different from discussing the physical intimidation that one person started stooping to after it escalated. Unfortunately subtleties like that are easily lost in these boards.

*has

@CherriesAndWine

I'm sorry that happened to you .

I don’t think you will ever feel 100 per cent safe

Sadly I did until the weekend. As I said it's been 15 yrs since the original incidents.

It may sound sound odd but I don't feel unsafe; just sort of uncomfortable, angry and that it's unacceptable - like the same or worse simply cannot happen again. At the risk of being very repetitive (already have been, apologies) I wanted to try to get it straight in my head whether there is any reall point in engaging with him about this before making plans for separation.

One poster did mention separating while he dies anything he chooses to do. I don't know if that's feasible for just fooling our selves.

*does

U would discuss details of access whether it would be supervised it that would have to be assessed I reckon if both of you cant agree it or if you believe him a threat.
Could u negotiate it?

Sorry, only getting around to responding properly to this now - supervised access would've deemed utterly ridiculous and offensive by him, I imagine.

Mostly because he would (correctly) say that he has never been aggressive or similar to his dd, and because he obviously looks after DD on his own i'm out/away/whatever.

That having to change/be limited would be implying, actually outright saying that he's done kind if risk to his dd and I know he's find that insulting, ridiculous etc.

If I said it was because he had in the past been aggressive towards me, I can imagine he'd never tally that with behaviour towards a child/his child. His view would probably be that I am an adult woman who eg did not stop arguing when he asked and escalated something until his temper went etc but that's child does not have that send awareness, ability to control their behaviour etc. so he would never get that angry of lose his temper.

Of course as posters have already pointed out, him losing his temper should not result in aggression with me or anyone, and the person not backing down is no excuse but ...

He'll possibly also say that dd is his flesh and blood, his child in a way that is not comparable to even a partner so it's different ... Though that's just speculation on my part.

Anyway, long story short; I think he'd be deeply offended, outraged even, at the suggestion of supervised contact. If I explained that teenagers etc push buttons/are extremely challenging, he'd probably say that that's a"cross that bridge when you come to it" thing that had no bearing in his access/time with her now as a small child. If I say that she could get more challenging even as s young child,bit will probably be back to the above; he hasn't lost his temper with her and wouldn't.

Sorry, that was ridiculously long.

But, if you can modify your behaviour for your sister why not your partner/husband on the basis that he's a good father/partner/husband and person as you've said yourself?

I could but most posters on this thread would think that doesn't solve the fundamental problem (him).

For the most part he must tolerate your personality traits (sharp tongue) if these are exceptions and all arguements don't escalate to this?

Yes.