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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is a man who's been violent always like a dog that's bitten?

285 replies

GilbertMarkham · 18/12/2019 16:47

Has anyone ever had a long term relationship in which a man who was violent (during a time of extreme conflict for example) not be violent again?

Or are they like a dog who's bitten - only fit for the relationship equivalent of being put down.

OP posts:
Khione · 18/12/2019 19:05

My ex hit me once, it was after we had split up, and was over access. He was being a twat and I laid down some boundaries about notice (He could see them whenever so long as he gave me notice). He hit the woman he was with after me twice, shortly before they split (A mutual friend of mine and hers told me).
He has now been married for 20 years and my kids assure me that SHE wears the trousers.

Context - his father hit his mum frequently until she left and his sisters used to physically fight, scratching and hair pulling in their teens and early 20s - maybe earlier and later that was the timeframe I witnessed it.

GilbertMarkham · 18/12/2019 19:07

And you're not sorry.

You don't actually give a fig about a poster - just about being seen to be right and being validated.

You're scoring points off someone who's trying to work through probably ending a marriage & family. You don't give a fk though. Too busy being smug, patronising combative and self congratulatory.

OP posts:
WireBrushAndDettolMaam · 18/12/2019 19:07

Getting great insight to how you work here OP.

GilbertMarkham · 18/12/2019 19:07

That was at @WireBrushAndDettolMaam

OP posts:
GilbertMarkham · 18/12/2019 19:08

Getting great insight to how you work here OP.

Ditto.

You are a bully.

OP posts:
Waitingforadulthood · 18/12/2019 19:08

My husband pushed me over 10 years ago. Was horrified and left (for 6 months), sought therapy, took up
Meditation, stopped drinking, volunteered and pretty much did everything he could to make sure he never did that again. To me or anyone else. I still can't say he never will. It's a risk I'm choosing to take.

What seems different about your scenario is that it's happened on more than one occasion already, and you/ him / family? Are seeking to find reasoning, appropriating blame, and trying to find the "two sides of the story". The reality is anything you did, whatever your character flaws, he made a choice and the only person responsible for his behaviour and choices is him.

You're very quick to explain your behaviour and reiterate that you behave in x way and that's your fault, whilst simultaneously trying to convey that his behaviour is also somehow your fault.

If you acknowledge that your behaviour (being a "terrier" not letting things go etc) is your fault you also need to acknowledge that his behaviour (aggression, violence, intimidation) is his fault. And it doesn't seem from what little you've written that he's done much evaluating of his own faults, or taken much responsibility for his own actions, nor does he demonstrate regret and shame - else he wouldn't do it again.

Havaina · 18/12/2019 19:11

There is nothing wrong with OP’s analogy. Why are people focusing on that and not what is a very important issue? Confused

category12 · 18/12/2019 19:12

How do you think he'll be with an arsy, argumentative, won't let it go, teenager in a few years time?

AnyFucker · 18/12/2019 19:14

You sound a very spikey and conbative person op, and rather proud of it

It doesn't change the fact you are in an abusive relationship and it does not justify it in any way at all

So you are like your mum. Does she deserve to get abused ? Just because you refuse to be intimidated does not make it ok...your dc are learning the same shitty lessons you did as a child.

Thetellyisjelly · 18/12/2019 19:14

@Waitingforadulthood did he tell everyone what he did to you ?

DoTheHop · 18/12/2019 19:15

OP, what do you think is the answer?

GilbertMarkham · 18/12/2019 19:15

If you acknowledge that your behaviour (being a "terrier" not letting things go etc) is your fault you also need to acknowledge that his behaviour (aggression, violence, intimidation) is his fault.

I do.

After the argument we discussed it and came to the conclusion that we'd have to split.

Just don't know if there's any realistic possibility of us (particularly him since imo his issue is worse) solving it or if we should just separate and later divorce.

Sad thing is we get along well and patent together we the vast majority of the time. It's just very sad.

OP posts:
DoTheHop · 18/12/2019 19:17

Yes. It's sad. But you'll get over it.

WireBrushAndDettolMaam · 18/12/2019 19:18

It’s fine OP.

Waitingforadulthood · 18/12/2019 19:21

Thetelly- yes. He was quite insistent that the shame was his and he told people why he left and what therapy he was seeking. He also approached the health visitor and doctor, went on a parenting course organised by social services. What he did was awful, but he genuinely owned it and sought to explore the flaws in his character that caused the outburst to ensure it won't happen again.

GilbertMarkham · 18/12/2019 19:21

So you are like your mum. Does she deserve to get abused ? Just because you refuse to be intimidated does not make it ok...your dc are learning the same shitty lessons you did as a child.

I don't think you read that post correctly.

I said that in spite of being an absolute (very good hearted) head server - she found a partner who tolerated her ... And that that illustrated it is possible, so I have no belief that someone can't find a partner and have a decent relationship regardless of how hard to listen to they are (her sister is the same incidentally).

What childhood lessons? What are you talking about?

OP posts:
MoodLighting · 18/12/2019 19:21

I think the previous poster was spot on about the damage a volatile home can do to kids. If I were in your shoes it's this that would be uppermost in my mind. I'd rather be single than think of them walking on eggshells.

Fwiw I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a raised voice fight with my partner. I'm not being sanctimonius or saying we don't get on each others' nerves all the time - but we just don't escalate it.

GilbertMarkham · 18/12/2019 19:21

*head- deever

OP posts:
EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 18/12/2019 19:26

This thread is moving very fast but just wanted to address your earlier post OP:
Just to add on a general point that I've noticed that, while on MN relationships deemed healthy never ever have the slightest incident of raised voices etc., my observation of relationships irl is completely different.

There seems to be a disconnect between MN reality/expectations and real/average ones.

There is a big difference between having arguments, including shouty ones, with verbal abuse. For example, compare shouting "And you never unload the bloody washing machine!" to "You're a fucking lazy cunt!"

An argument to me can actually be healthy as long as it talks (or shouts!) about a problem behaviour rather than personal abuse.

I think many posters on MN either never witnessed shouty (but non abusive) stuff as a child, OR they witnessed verbal abuse and so they experience anything shouty as abuse.

My Grandpa used to verbally (and physically) abuse my Grandma. My mum chose an equally shouty and abusive man in my father. With anyone else if they raised their voice a little to make a point, she would literally put her hands over her ears, hunch over and wail "stop shouting at me, you're being horrible" before running away in tears.

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 18/12/2019 19:30

Anyway - it sounds like you are going to split up. But I'd ask you to think about why he'd rather split than actually work on his behaviour. Because to me that sounds like he doesn't think his behaviour is an issue.

PS Ignore WireBrush's bitch-ploppings.

fantasmasgoria1 · 18/12/2019 19:32

I had two abusive relationships and no they didn't change.

GilbertMarkham · 18/12/2019 19:33

Fwiw I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a raised voice fight with my partner. I'm not being sanctimonius or saying we don't get on each others' nerves all the time - but we just don't escalate it.

It's a different thread really, but (while I believe you) I quite honestly find MN expectations/norms v different from my observation & experience of couples around me .. and not just relatives before posters start on dysfunctional families ... I'm talking about acquaintances, friends, neighbours, sometimes strangers. I find the vast majority of them have a shouty argument a few times a year at least.

This is separate from my question, I emphasise.

OP posts:
Gwenhwyfar · 18/12/2019 19:34

"Do you think it is ever the case that someone can be violent in exceptionally conflict laden circumstances in a relationship,"

Yes, I think anyone can be violent in the right circumstances. I'm pretty sure I could and I'm not an abuser.

ginghamstarfish · 18/12/2019 19:34

I wouldn't stay around to find out, and I think the same about someone who cheats - once a cheater etc.

GilbertMarkham · 18/12/2019 19:35

(Obviously with the strangers I have no idea of the regularity of the shouty (or seething) arguments).

OP posts: