Is living together enough commitment?

[Fairylights88]

Hello mumsnet,
I am looking for some honest opinions about my situation.

I've been with my partner for 2.5 years, we moved in last year and sometimes it's been amazing and other times I've been quite down.

I thought at this point we would be engaged and a bit more on the same page however I don't feel this is imminent and it gets me down. He does sometimes say he will propose so it feels mixed messages.

He was engaged to his ex and says he's not ready to propose because of his past break up. I have tried to be understanding about this but internally its really upset me.

Am I being unreasonable in expecting him to be over his last break up and wanting to be married?
Or is living with my bf enough commitment and I shouldn't push it?

Thanks

Don't judge him by what he says, judge him by what he does.

He says he'll marry you and have a family.

What he's actually done is refuse to buy a property with you, won't propose and is buggering off to his family at Christmasand leaving you on your own. Those things tell you he is just not that into you. This willbe blunt but he sees you as a convenience to pay towards his mortgage and give him sex. That's why you're there. He has no intention of committing to you. He's showing you loud and clear who he is. Believe it.

Hmmm. He said he didn't want to lose the house to her. Yet he's still in it, with you paying rent.

Do you know the details of the split... was he fair to her or did he use her to get on the housing ladder then dump. Tbh he sounds like he very much puts himself first.

Charlotte

I have a very low tolerance for men who spout bullshit to their woman.

He left his ex for me so I thought i was the one
Oh honey, no, no no no no no.

You're not meant to be feeling flattered that HE might think YOU are his "one".
You are supposed to be assessing HIM, to see if HE is your "one".

In the nicest possible way, you need to learn the basic lesson that most adults have to come to terms with as they grow up: that actions are what counts, not words.

Open your mouth and make some sounds, right now. How easy was it for you to do that? Well, it is just as easy for him to make sounds with his mouth. They don't count for anything. They are cheaper than chips.

This guy sacked his fiancee off for you, while lying to you about his involvement with her, and simultaneously trying to make you feel special for being the OW....
tells you he will propose, but instead ruins special occasions by getting your hopes up...
hasn't invited you to Xmas (!!!! come on OP!),
won't let you put down roots with his family...
has you lodging in his house where he could kick you out tomorrow, helping him pay a mortgage when you are not entitled to the asset in any way...
is happy to shag you without a condom, to make a baby that he can walk away from the moment he doesn't feel like it anymore.

And you are pining over him!

Open your eyes and start looking at the behaviour, not the words! You need to grow up and stop projecting a fantasy onto him that isn't even there.

Why the fuck do women put up with this shit!

-won’t give op what she needs

• will take her money
• will leave her alone on Xmas
• won’t protect her financially

It’s not about whether the cool kids on here are willing to wait twenty gazillions of years and not put pressure on little bloody until He Is Ready. It’s about what op wants and how much respect that’s being given.

Bin him off. Your needs matter. If you don’t acknowledge that he never will.

Atilla gives great advice and tries to show people that their relationships may reflect a shitty upbringing or pattern of behaviour.

Oh it's one of those threads ...with add ons......

Also op, I want you to know that I am not mad keen on marriage in and of itself, but I believe it's very important in some circumstances. If you are in the UK, and wish to have kids, I think it's essential and you would be mad to not to do it.

I am not in UK, we have common law marriage in my country. I am unmarried (divorced) and live with my dp. I already have DC (not DP's) and we are not planning any kids together. We live in a rented house and earn almost the same wage. He's the named trustee who will manage my assets on behalf of my DC if I die; I am the beneficiary of his pension and investments if he dies. Common law is on our side and all is well.

In our situation, marriage is a cute thing to do, sure, but in no way necessary. In your situation, it is a drop dead requirement, in my opinion.

The fact that he talked about losing the house etc means that he knows he is fully aware of this. He blatantly just doesnt want you to have any protection. He wants to be able to have the option of fucking you and DC over if he bores of the situation. Think about that for a bit.

He may be a nice friendly man, but even nice friendly people can spot a mug, and take advantage if they decide to. Folk do it ALL the time.

You're putting all your eggs in a very rickety basket. He is getting everything he wants from a relationship with none of the commitment. You are losing The opportunity to own a home of your own and have that financial stability, losing the opportunity to have children in a secure relationship and being emotionally abused with this on/off marriage talk.

Dump imo

OP, atilla and rvbp are giving you very good advice.

Safeguard your future, do not be a mug, please take their advice to heart and plan your exit

@CharlotteMD what a bizarre comment 🙄

you aren't compromising you are being used, manipulated and taken advantage of.

maybe he is a basically good bloke who doesn't realise how shitty he is being, in which case you should move out to give him a chance to reconsider his behaviour.

or maybe he is genuinely not a very nice person. there are vast numbers of women who tell of the relationship they face the best years of their life to with the man they thought was 'the one' who said throughout that he loved her but wasn't ready for marriage just yet. pretty much every time the relationship ends and the bloke is married to a different woman within 12 months. don't be another woman on this list.

living together without marriage is valid and reasonable if you never lose sight of what it isn't. there is no such thing as common law marriage. even if you live together for 25 years with you contributing equally to paying off the mortgage, if the relationship ends you get nothing. if the relationship doesn't end and he dies you have to pay inheritance tax and his parents are the next of kin making all the most impactful emotional decisions. if you have kids and aren't married you mustn't let your career take more than 50% of the hit - he must take his fair share because anything you do more than 50% gives you an unfair reduction in earning power and pension which will affect the rest of your life - so it is only rational to split the work unevenly if you are fully pooling your financial and legal lives ie getting married.

atilla is right.
Too many women get led up the garden path and convince themselves it's worth sacrificing their present happiness and long term financial security for a man who has shown his true colours.

Actions speak louder than words. If I remember correctly:

• he cheated on his fiance
• he's told the OP she's the one
• he's happy for the OP to move into his house, but won't buy together
• he's happy for the OP to pay his mortgage and not put her on the deeds
• he knows she wants marriage and that legal commitment but strings her on
• he's happy to have a child with her (we can presume he'd also be happy for her to give up work/go part time etc)
• he is leaving her alone at Christmas

OP needs to realise she is worth more than this. More women need to wise up and stop giving up their autonomy and options for men who aren't interested.

Well, it would be pretty fucked up to go around encouraging women to stay in bad relationships.

You wouldn't meet him and think manipulative arse hole

If you thought that on meeting him then he'd be a pretty crap manipulator, wouldn't he?!

You're not stuck, you just don't feel ready to act on what you need to do. That will change as you process things.

And please stop using the word "compromised" to mean "submitted". Compromise goes two ways not one way.

Attila gives consistently good and reasoned advice.

If you want more info to explore your approach to relationships and what you consider normal/healthy, this may be one to consider: www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

I think at 29 you are so young and should walk away before you are still there in 6 years time. I did what you are doing at 29 right through to 35 when the biological clock was banging so hard and I was so miserable. To answer your question, is living together a commitment, possibly / probably if you've bought the house together but not when you're effectively the lodger. I would walk away at 29 and find someone on your page.

Oh OP your update makes it much worse.
He's leaving you on your own on Christmas Day? That's so sad. You should be his priority and you're not.

He cheated on his ex. There's a very good chance he'll end up spinning those same lines to someone else too.

Well now you know why he's still unmarried at 40. He is a shithead. Run

Buy your own house. Dump him and find someone who will spend Christmas Day with you (& obviously a whole lot more , not leaving you on your own at christmas is an extremely low bar for a relationship!)

With the best will in the world op, he doesn't want to get married. Open your eyes and find a man who is on the same page as you. this is hard,but do it now, you are not getting what you want from this relationship, so go out and get what you DO want xx

Personally I don't feel 2.5 years is long enough to be together before being engaged. What's the rush?

In all honesty I think he’s playing you for a mug!

Stop paying HIS mortgage - you have no rights to the property in fact no more rights than if you were a lodger, if he decided you could be out on your ear with sod all notice, meanwhile you’re feathering HIS nest.

Being engaged is also completely meaningless. If you get engaged and have a baby you’re then more than likely both (you and child) financially dependent on him at least temporarily and again he can turf you both out without a by your
Leave and even child maintenance isn’t guaranteed.

A commitment shy man of 40 is highly unlikely to change, quite honestly I know very few men who’ve waited to that age to get married and have kids who genuinely wanted to, and they don’t usually make good husbands and fathers - why hasn’t he had dc before? Is that why he and fiancée split?

The very last thing you want to happen is he wastes your child bearing years leading you on.

“What I don't get is that he is happy to start a family with me but not commit in terms of a property or marriage.” He can quite easily walk away from a child with little to no consequences, he can’t do that with the legal ties of property or marriage.

And you were ow too? Well... you reap what you sow.

Affair partners aren’t always intended to be long term partners, if he has a history of cheating you may merely have created a vacancy.

And he is leaving you alone over Christmas?

For the love of all that’s sensible get a clue! Get rid of him, work on your self esteem, boundaries and morals before embarking on another relationship at all. And have your contraception well sewn up!

I agree with pp - leave him. His actions are speaking louder than words, follow through on the ultimatum.

He's leaving you alone for Christmas! he doesn't want to be with you. What will you do? Wait in the empty house for him to come back after Christmas? I know what I'd do.

And actually, you knew what he was like. He cheated on someone else, he dumped them. He showed you exactly who he was. Your standards are pretty low I think. I agree with the poster who said, it's not about you being his one. Its about whether he's good enough for you. Do you want a cheat and a liar?

If you have been together that long you should be considered as his family and he should be spending Xmas with you! Tbh his actions speak louder than words I would be buying your own property or trying to find somewhere to rent and then move out over Xmas leaving him a nice present to return home to do you have any family or friends you could move in with until you get your own place? X

Nice men don't lie and cheat
Nice men don't string women on when they know she was dating for marriage.

Attila gives excellent advice on here. Many women aren't aware of how much their upbringing affects them and how brainwashed women have been to pander to, excuse, and tolerate the unacceptable from crap men.

OP as for why he would talk about marriage and a baby and you're the one t you. He knows that is what you want so he tells you what you want to hear without actually taking any action.

He's got it made when he has a live-in who pays his mortgage, cleans and caretakes him, and sex on tap while he doesn't have to keep his word on any of it.

You see him as your one and your actions reflect it.
His actions reflect you're a gfng to use until you get tired of it and leave and he'll tell the new victim the same bs he told you about his ex.

You are fortunate NOT to have children with this liar and no financial ties.

Make your plans to be in your new place without him in January and you'll have a new start without this using creep stringing you along.

specifically on the question on your thread title.

"living together" is no commitment at all. getting engaged is also no commitment as there is no ramifications at all to breaking off an engagement any time. you could live together and be officially engaged for 15 years and still have no rights or stability.

a commitment doesn't exist properly without witnessed signatures on official documents. putting your name on the deeds of the house giving you an equal share of it is a commitment. marriage is a commitment. civil partnerships are now open to heterosexual couples which is good if you want to avoid the traditional baggage of marriage but appreciate the security.

none of these commitments are unbreakable but breaking them comes with serious and complicated consequences thai will take time and money to sort out, so if someone isn't willing to do these then they probably have one eye open for what's next once this bit of fun has run its course. now it's fair enough fir someone not to be sure yet after only a couple of years but don't pretend that any commitment exists when it doesn't. currently it doesn't.

and for as long as no commitment exists, do not make any sacrifices that are for his ultimate benefit, and do not put yourself in a position where you rely on his good will so do not get pregnant.

living together you have no more rights than a lodger so you should be paying no more than 50% of the going rate for a lodging room locally (as that is the magnitude of what you are getting) plus 50% of food costs (but not utility bills). the rest of your income should be going into savings or assets in your own name to give you a bit of security. if you do end up getting married then those assets plus his house should all be transferred into joint names.