Reconciliation after estrangement?

[Albinoni]

I have NC'd for this but have posted in the past about my relationship with DD1 and was grateful for the advice and support which I received. The posts have since been deleted, at my request, but some of you may remember 'Lobster Boy', and my concerns that DD was in a controlling relationship and that I risked losing her.

Unfortunately, my fears were justified as DD seemed to become more and more withdrawn from the family, saying that her BF was her family now. She ghosted all of the family entirely for six months - apparently she just blocked us all - then there were occasional calls and she did send birthday cards etc. She moved house without providing an address and we didn't see her for two and a half years. I cannot begin to describe how painful that period was for me and DH and her sisters, but those of you who have been through this process of living bereavement will understand.

Anyway, the good news is that there has been a reconciliation following a lunch on neutral ground, in a restaurant, earlier this year (she lives hundreds of miles away from us). Prior to that, she had provided her address, so that we could send some books to her which are relevant to a course which she is intending to take next year. At the lunch, she said that they had married the previous year, and we said how pleased we were, and contact continued to improve.

The following month they asked if they could borrow some money to put towards buying a property and we agreed. Shortly after that, DD told me she was expecting a baby (due any day now), which I was overjoyed about. Then, a few weeks after that - and this is the part I am really struggling with - we received a letter from DD and SIL enclosing photos of the 14 month old which they already had. The accompanying letter was quite upsetting as it said they hadn't told us about DGC because they didn't want her to experience broken relationships and they hadn't been sure whether or not they wanted us involved at all, but they felt guilty at taking our money and not telling us about DGC.

DD and I subsequently had an emotional conversation and, since then, DD has been in contact with me virtually every day with messages and photos and is behaving almost as though nothing has happened. She says I can't think about the past or what I have missed and clearly wants to move forward. I know that she is right in that we cannot change the past and she assures me that she definitely does want us to be involved.

But I am in such turmoil over this. Obviously I am thrilled and excited about the reconciliation and the DGC, but I feel so desperately hurt and upset that she didn't tell any of us about all of these things, especially as I believed that we were close before. I am really struggling, to be honest, although it's early days and there is a lot to come to terms with.

We haven't met DGC1 yet as I think we both felt that it would be better to wait for the baby to be born and then meet them both together, when the emotions have died down a bit. The last thing I want to do is cause her any stress at this time and I sense that they are anxious at our meeting her PILs for the first time. I am also anxious about it, although they sound like lovely people and have been very supportive to DD. But goodness knows what they must think of us. I am also worried about becoming attached to the DGC in case they are taken away from me. I just couldn't put myself through all that again.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me advice if you have been in a similar situation. How easy was it to reconcile? Did the whole family reconcile or was it a piecemeal process? Did you involve any professional help, such as a counsellor or family mediator? Has it worked out? Are things the same and can the relationship ever really recover or is it just different? I really don't want to mess this up, as I have realised how fragile relationships can be, but I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

well done OP for keeping going, keeping your tone friendly and keeping your boundary of not having the alerts flash up.

I have now had a message saying why don't I ever pick up.

This is the start of a new cycle, a little goad...from him via her, probably. Tempting you to slip into justifying, apologising, defending, explaining your boundary away.

This is not the time for their needs to be the most important part of your thoughts and energy, she should be supporting you with loving kindness not inviting you to an argument.

Keep going, keep strong, very best wishes as always to you, DH & dds 2 and 3.

Best wishes to your DH starting chemo today. I hope it goes as well as possible for him and that the side effects are minimal. Such a difficult thing to go through never mind with the extra stress of the CV going around.

I’m glad to hear that your DD2&3 will be there to support you both at home and will be there for Mother’s Day too. Hope you all can enjoy a quiet celebration together.

It does sound like DD1 is concerned about her father and you are doing so well to respond in calm & measured terms. I hope you don’t rise to her jibe about not answering the phone - any bad feeling arising could be used by LB for further future estrangement...although obviously she’s got a cheek complaining about you not answering her when she calls. I’m surprised she doesn’t notice the irony.

I hope your DH isn't too affected by the chemo.

Oh Albinoni - here we go - nothing has changed and everything has changed.

You have shifted to a much more sustainable emotional position where you have stepped back and stepped up, to see the bigger picture.

You know where your priorities lie and her behaviour to you on this day in particular is shoddy and v selfish.

These feelings are your inner strength talking and your boundaries building. This is really important stuff and is where you are now compartmentalising, putting her away up on the back shelf of your mind so that you can protect yourself and use your finite emotional capacity and energy to support your DH and also your DD2 and DD3 who must also be beside themselves.

However the multiple random communications from her are highly inappropriate and are wounding, distracting and draining you - so you need to make some changes.

I agree with PP who said this is the new goading phase where you are supposed to get emotional and angry so that he can slam down the shutters. But you dropped the rope in that game a while back so you won’t fall into that trap. Continue with the grey rock and vanilla responses.

Looks like you might need to make some further changes.

Maybe let her know that there is so much going on with treatment, Drs etc that it would best if you schedule a call twice a week on x day at x o’clock joint with you and your DH. Also that you are focussing 100% on him right now so will respond to any texts in the evenings after dinner.

I hope that today and the coming weeks are tolerable for your DH. That’s all that matters. Don’t let her steal anymore of your precious time. I hope that you are being looked after by your other DDs xxx Such tough times x

OP I remember your original threads and have been following this one and just wanted to wish you lots of strength in the coming days. I hope your DH chemo comes with limited side affects, we've been through much milder but similar with my lovely dad and and it can be very tough on loved ones too.

I hope you don't mind me saying this but I really hope you can reflect on this coming Mother's Day that actually you have more than proved yourself in spite of extreme circumstances and that your other daughters are an incredible reflection on your mothering skills. It seems to me your SIL is a dreadful narc and nothing you ever do will appease him and by extension her. Every good word or deed will eventually be twisted and you have to remember that isn't your doing, it's his.

I'm afraid I still doubt LB motives as it sounds like he will be 'allowing' all this contact and concern and would urge you to keep up with the slight detachment for your own mental wellbeing while the family is going through this. The idea of a set debriefing call a couple of times a week is a good one, and might help you to shift your focus. I utterly agree he is manipulating and driving much of this behaviour but in all honesty her treatment of her sisters says to me she is complicit and certainly not blameless, no matter how he has twisted her feelings toward you.

It's weird how she has time to be in touch with you so much!!'

Hope DH is back at home with you and he feels reasonably well after his treatment. What a shame you couldn’t go in with him today ( but totally understandable of course )

I bet he is so thankful that he has you , DD2 and DD3 there to support him
Sending you all love and best wishes to you all 💕

thank you for your kind words Albinoni.

I may be going against the grain here, but you said DD1 was so much more natural in person and on the phone. It is the texts that he monitors more closely, at least the non recipe/photo ones. So I think her being able to call you is her lifeline. Her real connection to you because she isn't allowed by him to just jump on a train to you. He controls her to such an extent. For this reason I would say you should maintain comms via phone. She is clearly worried about her dad and to shut her out would feel to her as if you were punishing her like for like, because she did this to you. This may be something SIL will use against you, and you won't want to hand him this. And to cause her hurt by excluding her (albeit unintentionally) would still be rift inducing rather than rebuilding. Of course you can only cope with so much, and I really feel for you. I hope you can explain to her (over the phone not text) that you just cannot cope with her feelings and demands right now because you are so focussed on just getting through this crisis, but that she is very much a part of the family and you want her to be involved and updated and are glad of her support. I also think suggesting a scheduled chat is a good idea.

She can't tell DD2 or DD3 anything if they won't speak to her, so you are the conduit and I feel she is trying to reach out and show that she cares. This is difficult in the face of repeated rejection. I see the irony in that, but she may not.

I do think she is totally in SILs thrall and power. And that she has no idea of the hurt she has caused you. But now is not the time to dwell on this.

Set your boundaries, but be mindful not to alienate her because she will need you to be her safe place one day. And if she harbours bitterness at being shut out at such a difficult family time, that may hinder her escape. Please don't get me wrong, I know you would never do that intentionally, it's just I can see her side too, having been in an abusive RS myself.

I hope you can "manage her" in order to maintain your own strength. It is so hard trying to be strong for everyone else when all you want to do is crumple.

Hmmm. I think insisting someone you have dropped like a stone reply to every missive, and sending recipes , when that person is dealing with something so serious, is a form of bullying actually, and shows a total lack of empathy and a feeling of entitlement to your attention. LB wants your money, so he is probably pushing contact, but your dd should not be doing this to you.
LB bullies people, and now your dd is behaving in the same way. I think you need to text her that you have to completely focus on DH, and that you can’t respond to daily messages etc. She can call you every Sunday for an update, otherwise you will only text if there is something important. Not fair to treat you like this, after everything you have gone through. You are a person with feelings, not a toy to be dropped and picked up again when they want to play.

I've just spent a few hours reading your posts and was wanting to end on a happy note.
I'm so sorry to hear of your dh news and that messages from dd1 cause you sadness.

The advise I wanted to give you much earlier, seems very insensitive now but I feel it will put lb in his place perhaps.

I'd send an email to each of the dds, having warned the youngest ones before.
Stating that after your dads diagnosis and the virus outbreak you've both felt compelled to look at finances and your wills. Obviously money is tighter, you've promised to put all the dd through education which will continue. You've promised to fund rent whilst dd1 does her pgce. But that sadly there will be no more loans available. So for equality, each child will receive a third of the last parents estate (less any outstanding loans) which will be subdivided by any children they have ...

I think it's important they know what the script is, that that loan hasn't disappeared, and that you aren't available to be tapped up at any point.

Wishing you and your husband well

I do think dd1 feels the guilt now dad is poorly, but that is making you stressed. Tell her that you are struggling with your mental health and these multiple calls are too much. You'd love it if you'd FaceTime you and your dad at xoclock each day

Re the chemo: it's very ordinary. You're in a nice comfy chair and you get hooked up and over a number of hours you get the chemo concoction. You watch the telly, read the magazines, look at/play on your phone. It's like being in a waiting room except in a comfy chair. If anything, it's a bit boring.

The staff are fab! There's a lovely atmosphere on the unit. He may have a PICC line attached for future chemo but even that is a straightforward procedure. The nice thing about Oncology is there is no fear in the atmosphere, which really helps.

He may have a big reaction when he gets home, later in the evening, but then again he may not : I had quite a strong reaction to my first chemo (big headache) but not with the second chemo (two different concoctions). Will he have the option to have chemo at home in future? That will depend on how he reacts to the first chemo I expect.

This is your time now. You don't have to jump to attention, you have enough on your plate. You seem to have naturally embraced this, you don't need to question it. You don't want to talk so you don't want to talk. You don't need to justify it, even to yourself. She comes way down on your list of priorities - not unkindly, it's just a fact.

Perhaps in a crucial way she had lost her place in the family, up to a very real point. She absented herself, the family organism moved on without her. She has some catching up to do. Perhaps. That's her problem, not yours. Your focus is DH for now and for the foreseeable.

It's such odd times, the world out there has tipped, your world at home has tipped, she has to get in line

From time to time I re-read your first post and the horror of the concealment of the birth of DGD1 hits me afresh every time so I am not surprised you struggle to get past that. If she acknowledged the enormity of that hurt in some way and managed to persuade you that it was all LB's doing, then maybe it would be forgivable but she seems to brush it under the carpet and I feel she was complicit in it.
I think you were probably relieved that LB's parents appeared normal on first impressions and not real live monsters but now you have had time to reflect on the encounter, it was actually quite hurtful in lots of ways. How they can call DD1 and LB entrepreneurial when they have had money from you, them and LB's grandparents and haven't earned a brass farthing, is beyond belief, they must be totally deluded!!
I am so glad you have DD2 and DD3 as, without them, the situation would feel even grimmer.
I hope your DH is home and the chemo has not had any seriously unpleasant side effects for him. I think you have to keep communication with DD1 open for his sake even though her life up there feels far away and nothing to do with you at this point and it could be tempting to tell her that. Play the long game, she will need you one day and her MIL will never be you.

Vix, Springy, I think I view DD1 as a victim in this, rather than a deliberate perpetrator. She seems a bit childlike or infantilised by not being allowed by LB to make her own decisions, have her own opinions etc. I think she is just as scared of the potential outcome of DHs illness as the rest of the family. She may be attention seeking or just feeling left out and anxious, especially being so far away. I don't see her behaviour as "doing something to the OP" because I don't think she is thinking about that, she just sounds hurt because she thought she was being ignored. Of course that shows lack of insight and tact, and a failure to understand what her mum is going through, but it just seems like a childish selfishness to me. Her sister showed a million times more emotional maturity than her in the text the OP related to the thread. But I don't know DD1, though the OP has described how she isn't a malicious person.

I know it seems like karma if she feels rejected by her family after what she did (albeit under LBs past and present control), but I don't want it to backfire for the OP. I'm thinking long game here. But maybe I am off piste, because what matters right now is Albinoni and DH getting through this with physical and mental health intact. I agree that may mean limiting everything in their lives to what feels manageable right now.

I absolutely agree that dd1 is the victim. But life is tough : she has to face up to the consequences. The natural consequences.

I have been dd1 and I had to face the consequences. I had to make amends and make up ground that was lost because of what I did - EVEN THOUGH I was being manipulated by the arch manipulator. I was the chief victim.

It's not easy, or straightfirward. Part of dd1's recovery is facing the consequences of what has happened. If she sailed on through to full reconciliation she wouldn't have the opportunity to see that something outlandish has happened, something that fractured precious relationships. It's part of the healing, the 'coming to', the reality. Op is not punishing her.

It is not in OPs nature to punish and she has bigger concerns than DD1s feelings right now. Sorry if that wasn't worded right. I just meant that DD1 may FEEL she is being punished (excluded) and that could be a barrier to her seeing her DPs as her safe haven in the future. I'm probably overthinking it. The "natural consequence" is a "reap what you sow" angle, which I am not sure DD1 will take without hurt. She won't view that hurt as her own doing/natural consequence, she will see it as being done to her. I would say that if she is included in the family crisis to as much an extent as possible (as her sisters are), and allowed to show her love and support, then that will strengthen the bonds they are building. Keeping her at arms length will do the opposite, feed into LBs narrative and give him an excuse to cut her off from the family again.

Again, I'm overthinking. And OP has bigger issues to deal with right now. One only has so much capacity and emotional reserves, and she needs them for herself and DH.

I think you're right Bendy. That dd1 will see it as being 'done to her'. It's part of the dissonance? Maybe the big clash of reality will pull her up short..??

Who knows. You have to follow your nose, op. DH comes first at the mo.

Although it's not the same but can you imagine if op had hidden the illness or death of a member of the family. Or the birth of a new gc from the other dd.

I'd imagine dd1 would find it hard 'just to draw a line under it'.

Op would you consider some therapy to help you unpick you're feelings, you had too much going on even before dh got sick. It became more obvious through your posts how much dd1 was getting to you.

Agreed forrestgreen

DD1 has realised that your “reaction” to her has changed (and she’s not sure why).

Your priority is your DH’s health, not her and all the SIL elicited drama. You have more insight into SIL and his behaviours, and you have your “grey rock” strategy in place.

The primary reason for the visit on their side was to secure future funds and maybe demonstrate their “power” over you.

The reason on your side was to meet your DGs.

All these messages and photos are her stamping her foot, like a toddler, saying “why aren’t you looking at me”.

Yes she is a victim of LB, but why when she was told of her father’s illness the first thing that came in her mind, that she told LB about, was “where is that money that was left for driving lessons etc.” Not an empathetic response to his illness.

@Ghostontoast I believe that happened a while before DHs diagnosis. I scrolled back and OP wrote:

I remember that DH's father had given DH £20k to be shared between the DDs, to buy driving lessons, car, whatever. All DDs knew about this and very relaxed about when they had it, trusted us to keep it for them, didn't seem bothered about when they had it as they knew it was there. And we bought the car, driving lessons etc, so they knew it was there for the future. But after meeting LB, DD1 called at least four times to ask where her money was, which account it was it in etc etc. She sounded a bit uncomfortable and it was as though LB had planted the idea that we might have taken her money. It was so unlike the trusting relationship which we all had before. It was horrible really

It is clear from the whole history of DD1s actions post-LB that the money grabbing person is him. She is being coerced by him to go along with his schemes, whether to keep the peace, out of fear, gaslighting, his mood swings, violence, emotional blackmail or abuse, who knows. But she is in deep, and deeper still now there are children. It is also clear that the formal emails, texts and letters are written by him not her. Maybe he even persuades her it is the right thing to do. Brainwashing, coercion, he has a lot of power over her, and she either doesn't want to escape (yet) or doesn't see that she can without repercussions for herself and/or her children. It is possible to be so ground down and so much under someone else's power and control, that even though you see yourself as strong, intelligent and independent, you are completely paralysed and you stay in a relationship that is abusive because the alternative seems either unachievable or he has convinced you/you believe it would be worse than your current life. Trust me, I've been there.

It doesn't mean she isn't responsible for her part in the money grabbing, but I do believe that she doesn't feel she has any choice but to go along with LBs wishes.

She needs to be strengthened with love, belief and open arms, so she can grow her self esteem and confidence in order to make better life choices (and leave LB), not made to face her past cruel actions re DGC (not now, the time isn't right) and I agree with OPs plan re the PGCE for this reason.

The alternative way would be for her to reach absolute rock bottom where she loses everything and feels there isn't anything left to lose (like being badly injured in DV, LB kidnapping the DC), but that is not within OPs control and would be a nuclear outcome with lasting damage and trauma for everyone. The other way is much better.

I didn’t scroll back, so thanks for putting me right Bendy

I don’t think that she is lacking in confidence. If anything she is over confident. I think she has come to genuinely believe that what LB says is right, that they are the injured party graciously accepting the parental penance and bestowing favours by allowing them to visit the Granddaughters.
LB has a hugely inflated sense of his own abilities and importance, and I think that dd has become more and more like him .
I do think that this is a consequence of his control and manipulation, but I also think that she is old enough now to also be held accountable for her own choices.
I have been in a controlling relationship, I understand what happens to you and how you feel, but I don’t think that dd has lost all responsibility for her own actions here.
I agree with Ghost that there is a spoilt tantrum element to this behaviour, that is just like LB, but should not go unchallenged.
Only by being picked up on her bad behaviour, will dd see that there is anything wrong with it. Being reminded how normal, loving families behave is an important anchor. Not doing this allows LB and his parents to be her only frame of reference.

Sorry not to have responded to all of your wise and wonderful posts, but I have been too upset to do anything much, as we had bad news from the consultant today.

Basically, DH's cancer is inoperable and incurable. His best chance is the chemo, which he started yesterday and which has a 30% chance of improving the situation. However, treatments generally are being rationed because of the virus, so there is no guarantee of getting further treatments. He has been advised to keep fit, which he is doing, in order to maximise his chances.

I love all of my DDs and I am so very sad at the fractures in my family. But right now my brain feels a bit scrambled and I can't focus on anything very much.

It's ok to not be ok and it's ok to tell DD1 that you are not ok and just can't cope with chatting etc. You will likely have to spell it out to her, that you are grieving and raw and very much struggling.

Much love to you all X X