Reconciliation after estrangement?

[Albinoni]

I have NC'd for this but have posted in the past about my relationship with DD1 and was grateful for the advice and support which I received. The posts have since been deleted, at my request, but some of you may remember 'Lobster Boy', and my concerns that DD was in a controlling relationship and that I risked losing her.

Unfortunately, my fears were justified as DD seemed to become more and more withdrawn from the family, saying that her BF was her family now. She ghosted all of the family entirely for six months - apparently she just blocked us all - then there were occasional calls and she did send birthday cards etc. She moved house without providing an address and we didn't see her for two and a half years. I cannot begin to describe how painful that period was for me and DH and her sisters, but those of you who have been through this process of living bereavement will understand.

Anyway, the good news is that there has been a reconciliation following a lunch on neutral ground, in a restaurant, earlier this year (she lives hundreds of miles away from us). Prior to that, she had provided her address, so that we could send some books to her which are relevant to a course which she is intending to take next year. At the lunch, she said that they had married the previous year, and we said how pleased we were, and contact continued to improve.

The following month they asked if they could borrow some money to put towards buying a property and we agreed. Shortly after that, DD told me she was expecting a baby (due any day now), which I was overjoyed about. Then, a few weeks after that - and this is the part I am really struggling with - we received a letter from DD and SIL enclosing photos of the 14 month old which they already had. The accompanying letter was quite upsetting as it said they hadn't told us about DGC because they didn't want her to experience broken relationships and they hadn't been sure whether or not they wanted us involved at all, but they felt guilty at taking our money and not telling us about DGC.

DD and I subsequently had an emotional conversation and, since then, DD has been in contact with me virtually every day with messages and photos and is behaving almost as though nothing has happened. She says I can't think about the past or what I have missed and clearly wants to move forward. I know that she is right in that we cannot change the past and she assures me that she definitely does want us to be involved.

But I am in such turmoil over this. Obviously I am thrilled and excited about the reconciliation and the DGC, but I feel so desperately hurt and upset that she didn't tell any of us about all of these things, especially as I believed that we were close before. I am really struggling, to be honest, although it's early days and there is a lot to come to terms with.

We haven't met DGC1 yet as I think we both felt that it would be better to wait for the baby to be born and then meet them both together, when the emotions have died down a bit. The last thing I want to do is cause her any stress at this time and I sense that they are anxious at our meeting her PILs for the first time. I am also anxious about it, although they sound like lovely people and have been very supportive to DD. But goodness knows what they must think of us. I am also worried about becoming attached to the DGC in case they are taken away from me. I just couldn't put myself through all that again.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me advice if you have been in a similar situation. How easy was it to reconcile? Did the whole family reconcile or was it a piecemeal process? Did you involve any professional help, such as a counsellor or family mediator? Has it worked out? Are things the same and can the relationship ever really recover or is it just different? I really don't want to mess this up, as I have realised how fragile relationships can be, but I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Thank you everybody for your posts since mine of yesterday morning.

I wound up the clock, as I do every Sunday, and thought that the visit is over - it could have been better, it could have been worse, but it is over. The next time I wind the clock, DH will have started his chemo - I know it's his best shot, but I do worry about how it will affect him.

Random - you are right that I just want to try to focus on the good things at present and make the most of every day. I also think that you are right that, in time, DD1 will tire of doing everything, especially if she becomes main 'bread winner' as well, when she does her course. But, for the present, she is happy with her babies and I am very pleased that she is.

Gutterton - thank you for your post but, in some ways, I think motherhood has made DD stronger and given her more confidence, although she still defers to LB and treats him like some sort of god/1950s husband, which I find peculiar, as I and her sisters are all signed up feminists. I expect that they always intended to raise the question of finance and, to be honest, I am relieved that we have some clarity round it. However, I have wondered if we ought to confirm things in writing and put some parameters around the rent, given how previous conversations have apparently been misunderstood or misinterpreted.

No, they don't have any social contact, so far as I can ascertain, apart from with LB's parents. DD mentioned that she had befriended someone at a mother and baby group after she attended a couple of meetings, who also had two daughters of similar ages. However, when they came round the DGDs apparently came down with some bug, so they have decided that this woman's children are too infectious to bother with.

I think you are right about LB's parents. It is all going well for them now and their only 'agenda' is probably to keep a happy family relationship going. Upon further reflection, however, I wonder how much LB's mother actually wants us in their lives as anything apart from a peripheral presence. When I said how worried I had been about DGD2's birth, she said that LB's family had been very worried too. That's a normal thing to say, but was I imagining it that she might have seemed a fraction put out when I said that DD had called me from the labour ward. I honestly don't know, perhaps I am just - probably - a trifle hypersensitive. She also expressed her approval for the decision for DD to discharge herself from hospital care, which I found a bit odd, to be honest.

I agree that there will never be an apology or acknowledgement, certainly not from LB. What struck me is how vindictive he is. He knows about DH's diagnosis, but he made no attempt to welcome us on day 1, there was a dreadful atmosphere emanating from him. He was much better on day 2, but the cynical me thinks that was because he wanted to secure the financial support - we have been there before.

SirVix - I agree with you about their sense of entitlement. In fact, they will both be 28 this year. I believe that DD does love us and we are giving support because we want her to do the course, which will hopefully be very good for her personal development. We have agreed to this and are not going to renege on it, but I totally agree that LB should get a job and support his DC, like a responsible father.

DD did mention her sisters briefly, but not her friends. I am sure she would like to be reconciled, but doesn't want to take the first step - I said love should be a bigger emotion than pride, but that is between them. I think it would be very unwise of me to try to facilitate any sort of reconciliation as it would be likely to blow up in my face and I am not at all sure that DDs 2 and 3 even want a reconciliation at present - maybe sometime, but not now, and probably not whilst LB is on the scene, there is a lot of water under the bridge.

MaybeDoctor, Lady Eloise and Grohnjant - Thank you so much for your kind and wise comments.

Grohnjant, I am so sorry for your situation and totally empathise regarding the situation with your DD's 21st and your mother. But, despite the last months, your DM and your DD loved each other, and that love would not have been erased. Your DM sounds like you, caring and empathetic, and she would have understood. In time, your DD will come to regret her actions, as I believe mine will, not that I wish to saddle her with a load of guilt, just for her to realise that we need to hang on to what is precious, not to ignore or abuse it. It must have been terrible for you to have effectively 'lost' them both, and my heart goes out to you.

Buzz and frazzles - thank you so much for 'de-lurking' and giving me such fantastic encouragement and support. I really, really, appreciate it!

Thank you billy!!!

However, when they came round the DGDs apparently came down with some bug, so they have decided that this woman's children are too infectious to bother with.

That's insane! And directly from LB, frankly. Keeping her isolated.

some of it is thoughtlessness and a sort of careless cruelty, in other words, they are simply selfish
I had thought this OP. There can be a brutal selfishness to youth, not all young people by any means, but some. It is much less common once adulthood is properly reached though, empathy seems to return around 25, I suppose when the brain matures.
I think for your dd, this casual carelessness with people who love her has become a habit. She lives with a cruel and vindictive man, yet can’t see it. She is absorbed by her babies, but not looking beyond that. Children make us all mature, but she has had this one huge influence with nothing to temper it, and has absorbed LB and his family’s values and ways of dealing with people, and become more like them. She probably feels she doesn’t need friends or sisters, or anyone outside their little cult-like bubble.
I have been so aware of the pain of this for you and your Dh, but this must have been pretty terrible for your other daughters. I am glad they have each other, as well as such loving parents.

Albinoni
Thank you for your lovely thoughtful post , so kind of you to take the time when you must have so much on your mind. I am gaining insight from this thread and am going to try to be more like you.
You will all be in my thoughts this week. Best wishes and much luck for the start of DH’s treatment. Hope DD3 is feeling better too

🌷 🌷 🌷

Thinking of you - jeez he sounds like such a piece of work. Proper coercive control may she find her way through the madness wishing your husband and you strength 🙏

I thing the visit has thrown up many thoughts to confirm what you were already thinking. I'm not in the least bit surprised that he didn't allow her to develop a relationship with a friend and allow the girls to have friends round.

I also agree that it would be a good idea to put the financials into writing, although you'll be second guessing everything you write, if you try and be too formal it'll be stuffy and rude, if its too friendly you'll run the risk of it being misinterpreted. I'd also have an idea of the rental budget too, and be specific about the period of time.

Good luck

Could you get it drawn up by someone more official and get it signed and witnessed. It would take the personality out of it. It won't cause more offense then anything else you write I don't think, but would have the avantage of gravitas.

I'd also put in any document that the amount is owed to your estate, should something happen to you they'd not be getting out of it for free. Just in case he decides to knock you both on the head.

I just started reading the thread from the beginning and it struck me that nothing has changed and at the same time, everything has changed.

Nothing has changed with respect to LB - he is exactly as you knew him to be - the classic abuser profile who needs to exploit, isolate, control. His behaviour and expectations haven’t changed despite the devastating situation with your DH’s health.

He has achieved his aim of extracting cash. The “reconciliation” was solely to seal the deal and no doubt will be temporary. I predict that he will resume isolation once the cash has cleared in his account. I noted the experience of a PP early on in the thread who said that she had been on an estrangement forum for years and the common theme in all of the families was the repeated back and forth between long periods of estrangement and short bursts of reconciliation, generally related to money, with DGCs dangled as a pay per view. This is the standard practice of these types - all v predictable, so be ready for it and think v hard about walking into this painful emotional trap.

Your DD1 has changed into a wonderful mother. She is gaining joy and strength in this role, enough to sustain her emotionally, on the surface at least, for now.

You should take great pride and strength from this. This is the blueprint of motherhood that you modelled for her. A valuable gift to your DGDs that he can’t strip from them.

She has been emotionally abused and brainwashed by LB. She seems dissociated from the pain she has caused you all and is totally deluded that the last 5 years is now instantly water under the bridge. Maybe this is her only way of coping. I fear that her little love bubble will soon burst as he finds a new reason to slam down the shutters on you all again. Watch out for that trap. He will be searching for something to blame you for. Remember he can only cope when he has DD1 in isolation to control her. Her love and connection with you and DH is his biggest threat to achieving that. This will break her heart and really test her. But this is her journey and the only path out is a long painful one.

But I think you have changed over the last few months. At the beginning of this thread you were emotionally turned inside out with the revelation of DGD1. This alongside all of their other shocking, shocking behaviour was a massive betrayal designed to wound you viscerally, v deeply. And it has. But you have steadied yourself through all of these assaults because you are ahead of his games and you deployed your trusted weapons of love, grace, truth and dignity. You cranked this up to full throttle when you were blindsided by the news of your DH cancer. And you found the strength to see it through. And the visit was actually as successful as it could possibly have been given the lions den you had to walk through. That achievement is all down to you personally.

I think now you seem v clear of the situation and what role you will CHOOSE to play in it will be up to you. Your biggest fear at the start of the thread was that the DGDs would cause you to fall deeply in love instantly only for them to be ripped away leaving you heartbroken. But you planned for this and have emotionally protected yourself.

You have also been able see that we all only have finite emotional energy and capacity and that we all have to prioritise and decide to whom we give ours. And here again you have been clear that the reciprocal relationships of mutual love, grace, truth and dignity with your DH and DD2 and DD3 are what you cherish and where you are.

I am amazed at your continuing strength and emotional clarity through this. I am sure that you are exhausted but I hope that you can take comfort from seeing what a wonderful wife and mother you are to your DH and all of your girls in these v v difficult circumstances.

Super post Gutterton

Yes Gutterton. Fabulous post.
Dear Albinoni, I think you have dealt with this with Such maturity and grace. I wish your DH the best in his treatment.

gutterton has articulated it all so beautifully.
I completely agree with everything she has just said.

Gutterton
What an incredibly helpful but also moving post. I feel you are giving this wonderful wife and mother invaluable support. Please don’t ever stop. God knows, none of us would ever wish to be in a situation that is even a tiny fraction as painful as Albinoni’s, but would hope that if I do, I have a supporter of your calibre.

Super post from Gutterton.

I think LB will be agree the house money is a loan, I think it was a ploy asking you about that in front of DGD you were supposed to cave. It was offered as loan, why even have the cheek to ask if it was now a gift...

I am not that forgiving of my parents, I have always recognised that they are a product of their upbringings though. I have never asked for money, I would have had to be utterly destitute to even consider it - I just think it unacceptable to expect their help after having been excluded from my life. Although it did hurt I was not surprised to be disinherited.

I wish I could be strong enough to spend time in their company, not for me but for them. Spending time with just makes me unwell, 3 hour dinner took me a week to recover from.

Gutterton -such a helpful , kind post - as always.

Random .
Sorry for your situation,
💐 💐 💐 You are always so supportive and helpful on this thread too 🙏

Albinoni
Sending love 💕

Thank you Gutterton for your lovely post, which really lifted my spirits, as well as to everyone else for your kindness.

SirVix - sadly, I think you are spot on in your reading of the situation. I also sensed an underlying resentment when we were there and a lack of openness in some respects.

Lots to think about, but I am putting LB and DD on the back burner for now.

@RandomMess - and big hugs. Families can bring joy but they can also bring pain.

Honestly the back burner approach does work. You fill your life with things that bring you happiness and the whole thing just becomes "less".

If there is something you can do to reduce or stop the daily contact pinging up on your phone implement it, I can imagine how upsetting it is

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj3oC-HAmug&list=RDNj3oC-HAmug&start_radio=1

This song has helped me in my darkest moments to understand that you can turn yourself inside out to no avail - and all you have is left is to know that you have loved your best.

I'd love to shake sense in to her on your behalf Albinoni

Not helpful I know.

Gutterton - that song is heartbreaking but beautiful thank you.

Thank you also Random and Eloise X

Hope your DH and you are OK

Albinoni I have read your whole thread over the past two days. I am so amazed and uplifted by the wonderful support and advice you've been given here. I too have suffered a living bereavement and it was so hard. There was no big event, it was just a loss of contact over a period of time which crept up on me, and then when my efforts to contact them were met with outright rejection it became clear what had happened. It was a close family member and it caused me so much pain. I carried around a little portion of hurt and sadness in my heart every day for many many years of the estrangement. Now they are in contact again after 20+ years through circumstances, not particularly by their choice. And they have behaved as if nothing happened and I still have no answers as to why. When I tried to press, I was met with 'just let it go' which is so unsatisfactory. I feel I deserve some answers because it was so unwarranted and cruel, but I have to accept I won't get any. I find that hard to live with.

Anyway, enough self indulgence. I just wanted to say that I understand a bit of the pain you've experienced.

I do believe your DD will come back to you one day. Just don't shut her out as you must keep the lines of communication open, so you can be the one she turns to when her life becomes intolerable.

As for your DH, I can only offer my deepest and heartfelt best wishes to him for a full recovery, or at least a remission and many years of better health. You poor thing having to go through all this, on top of the emotional trauma brought about by DD. Please please explore the option of counselling. You really must look after your own MH if you are going to be the best support to your DH in the coming months.

I am ok, thanks Flour. DH has gone in for his chemo today, but I was turned away - nobody is being allowed in except patients. Obviously I am very worried about him and the effects it will have. I hated leaving him to face it all alone.

DD2 is here and DD3 is coming back later, then we will all go into lockdown for a while, as DH will be vulnerable to the virus and infection generally. I have been concentrating on cleaning and disinfecting everything - at least it's keeping me busy.

DD1 keeps sending regular messages, which I reply to in a neutral but friendly way, giving updates on DH etc. However, the messages seem to have an increasing edge to them. She called me and DH several times yesterday and I asked DH to call her, which he did, and he said she was very supportive, wished him luck etc. I have had several calls today which I missed and have not returned - or rather I missed the first two and didn't pick up the last. I have now had a message saying why don't I ever pick up.

I am sure that she only means to be supportive but, in truth, I am feeling quite fragile today and I just don't want to speak to her. There was a programme on the radio this morning where listeners were ringing in and speaking of their mothers with great love and requesting dedications etc in advance of Mother's Day. It just made me remember that DD1 not only got married without inviting us or telling us for months, but had a child whom she kept from us for 14 months. The visit last week went as well as it could have but, since I got back, I have realised how great the chasm is between us. She has her MIL who is far more her mother now than I am, and far more of a grandmother than I will ever be to the DGDs. I am genuinely happy for her and pleased that I don't need to worry about her, but I don't want all of these messages and recipes - yesterday, there was one on how to prepare perfect rice. Today she said I needed to make sure DD3 got home whilst there was still transport out of London. Again, I am sure she meant well, but why doesn't she just contact DD3 herself? Why does she expect me to be her conduit?

The messages don't flash up now, which is much better, and I don't want to not reply at all, as further issues will just upset me more, at a time when I just need to concentrate on DH. However, I am not sure how best to handle it - maybe I should just say that I am too worried about DH to speak to anyone today and am keeping my line free in case the hospital calls. I just don't know but could do without all of these communications - well, most of them, anyway.

Sorry to moan but, in truth, today was never going to be a great day, but at least I will have DH and DDs 2 and 3 with me for Mother's Day and we shall all be together for a while. I will feel much better when DH is home.

Bendy, thank you for your lovely and supportive post and I totally relate to your experience. I am pleased that your family member is back in touch, but totally understand that the relationship can never be truly healed without any explanation of why you were rejected in the first place.

You are right in saying that such behaviour is cruel - it would be cruel towards anyone, but especially towards those who you know love you and will be most hurt by it.

Thank you for your good wishes for DH.