"But we took you to Stately Homes" November 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
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Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
October-November 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Morning, Littleshortcake. You had an awful day yesterday. I'm really hoping you got some sleep last night. Something you said stood out for me.

Now they idolise her and I am a punch bag.

The second bit is undoubtedly true. The first bit is only true on the face of it - in terms of how they behave - but the two bits are definitely linked.

They don't idolise her, you know. They pander to her, dance around to her tune, agree with her, placate her, tell her what she wants to hear. They do it because they don't want the crap that they can see you getting from her. So they will do anything, anything, to stay on the good side of her. If that means joining in and ganging up on you, then that's what they'll do. They do it to spare themselves.

That brings me to the second bit. "I am a punchbag". That is the role handed out to you, Littleshortcake. You are needed by your mother to carry all of her negative feelings and anger and frustration. She cannot manage those feelings herself. She doesn't even acknowledge them. So the only way she can carry on living in a bubble is to dump them all on you. You know all of this but you also should know - and I warn you, this is hard to hear - that your family need you to carry on being the punchbag. If you are not there to do it, your mother will need a new punchbag and they are desperate for it not to be them, so they need you to come back and take the hurt and the damage so they don't have to.

I'm saying this as one punchbag to another. My Dad, who I adored despite everything, asked me to subject myself to one of my mother's spectacular rages and "stand there, don't react, just shrug, just take it" because he was living every day with her bubbling anger and resentment and he needed me to come back and be the sacrificial lamb...just so he could have a bit of peace and quiet. He knew how much that would wound me but he still asked me to do it. His desire for temporary calm was more important to him than the damage it would cost me, his daughter.

Your family are not your friends, not in the truest sense. I'm sorry, really sorry, but you need to hear that. They will let you be flamed in order to spare themselves. It's despicable behaviour from the very people who are meant to love you unconditionally but I'm afraid that this family was created specifically by your mother.

You do not have to accept it. You can walk away. You can choose a different life, a better life. You can choose to make a decent, healthy family life with your DH (who sounds as though he has his head screwed on, by the way). You can be happy. But that means stepping away from this toxic situation.

I hope that today brings fresh perspective for you, and that you find the strength and the stamina to make some decisions about the way forward.

Thank You singing.
That's awful your gather wanted you to take the rage and say nothing. That's a bit like our house. My nephew is mixed race and he was playing with a black and white mobile and she said that boy needs no toy to show him black and white. How cruel can a grandmother be. Yet to my brother face she wouldn't say it. She mocks the work I do. She gets into serious temper tantrums. When I had c sections she told everyone I was too posh to push. I think deep down she knew I couldn't drive or be at her beck or call for weeks.

She tried to sabotage things when I got married telling dh bad stuff about me. He said to her was she trying to hurt me so then my father was really aggressive and horrible to dh and since then he stays away.

She spends serious amounts of money on herself and luxury bedlinen and m&s food while my dad drives a car that is old and hardly fit for the road. She stays in hotels with friends living it up but cries and isn't fit for housework. When she comes to my house she will say 'ughh' when I cook or look a the state of your hair (this is after a long days work and two dc).

She's a miserable, unhappy woman, Littleshortcake, and misery loves company so she wants you to be miserable too just so that she can feel better about herself. It's a twisted logic but you don't have to play that game.

Living well is the best revenge.

Thank You for talking to me. I have been quiet this last few years and they say why dont you talk. But whatever I say gets used as ammunition. My father give a me dirty looks and on occassion made out I am nuts. We grew up afraid of her. She had a hysterectomy young and I remember her sitting down and telling us things would be better when she got it done. So it was bad then (the temper). They are well liked where they live but my mother doesn't talk to her brother (He remained and she was very nasty to his new wife) or her sister (who she says is nuts). So there is a pattern. Then she cries she is lonely.

Remarried. Another thing is my brother is separated and took it very badly and met someone else who he wanted to bring home and she told him no whores in this house. Just to give you a flavour of what she's like. He ended the relationship.

I want to agree with everything that Singinglily has said I think her analysis of the situation is spot-on Littleshortcake,
Nothing can be done to salvage these relationships, burn the bridges, escape, what's stopping you?
Since I blocked my parent I feel so much better it's like they were a device and I've just switched them off.

I can't do it anymore. I can't see myself living like this the guilt and shame is killing me inside. I have no one to talk to. Dh isn't really taling now. He's probably sick of it all

116 123 The Samaritans will listen to you.

We’re all here as well. Hold on @Littleshortcake

Little my counsellor asked me to write journal about what I had to be guilty about. She said to be extremely honest about it and we would work through it the next week. It really helped me because when I put the words down I could challenge my thoughts, there was in fact very little for me really to be guilty over it was actually my family undermining me by shaming me that was making me feel guilty not anything morally objectionable I had done. I didn’t even need to go through it with the counsellor the journaling helped enough. I wonder if journaling might be useful for you to have that experience or maybe to get closer to that experience.

I think that it would be good to get my thoughts down on paper. She is on a lot of medication for depression etc and I don't want to end up the same way. I feel sad for the whole situation. I managed to make dinner sort uniforms and dh got groceries in so I feel a bit better now.

Please write if you can @Littleshortcake, or even makes notes on an app in your phone using speech typing, I do this with samsung notes, I say the date and how I'm feeling
that way you can bear witness to your own thoughts and feelings
(((hug)))

I got out for an hour there to look around the shops and it helped just to be distracted. Came off Facebook. I wish I could ring someone to talk but I am going to be strong and I will get through this eventually. Thanks so much for listening to me and I hope I can be there for you too.

It's so much harder when there's no one you can confide in, but keep talking on here, we empathise with you

Hello please can I join the thread? I am having a bit of a wobble at the minute, I posted this www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3751490-To-ask-how-am-I-meant-to-break-this-news?pg=1&order= that explains the back story, but there have been other worrying revelations since then, I feel like I am never going to shake off this history and I am having what I think are flashbacks and I am feeling really anxious, I am normally very together, is it normal to feel this way?

I would like to join this thread please! Struggling with narc mother. On the verge of going no contact but feeling really guilty about doing so.

Most recent argument with her is because I have a DD who is 22 months - and said she cannot sleep over at her house don't feel comfortable she still smokes in the house (smokes weed too) also has two big dogs Rottweiler and an Akita who are not used to having dogs around. She has kicked off with me saying I'm a snob etc. Also sisters birthday last week to which we went for a meal she said that we choose somewhere which was very expensive and she will be no longer attending anything birthdays/baby showers etc as she finds it very over the top and she feels like she has nothing in common with us?! This was after she turned up to the meal completely blanked me and my sister and gave my partner a hug before we sat down!

This is just a small amount of things - we have fallen out previously and gone no contact for 6/7 months due to me asking her to let me know when she is coming round as had a small baby could be catching up on sleep etc she said she found it insulting that she had to make an appointment to come see her granddaughter (which wasn't what I was saying) this escalated into her saying some very nasty things accusing me of shutting her out etc etc and receiving numerous nasty messages/such as if I died she wouldn't come to my funeral.

I find her very difficult to be around constantly about her/her friends you can't have a normal conversation with her. Constantly brings up the past if you have a disagreement which results in nasty messages I mean messages which are that long they could be full on stories. She says that her counsellor has said that myself and my sister have narcissistic behaviours and that we are the ones in the wrong.

This is just a very tiny amount of issues (maybe they aren't issues I don't know but I'm struggling) I feel like I'm conditioned to always feel like I'm/we are in the wrong me and my sister. She will put stuff on social media underhanded quotes about family etc. I just feel like I need to decide how to move forward - as my DD is getting older and I'm currently expecting my second I can't deal with the constant drama/nastiness then expecting to forget everything that's been said!

Has anyone gone no contact and feel like they can move past the guilt? Thanks

Thanks for the kind messages since I last posted, and I hope you're ok @freshstart01 and @Littleshortcake .

It's not been a great weekend, every year I always forget just how bad the month of December is, and the closer it gets to Christmas the worse it gets. The thought of going down to parents' house on Christmas and my birthday are causing an instant panic attack. My father is a weak man, since I was a child (and indelible messages were tattooed on my brain) he would buy me things. I've paid scant regard to it, but it smacks of a guilty conscience.

I cracked and self-harmed this morning, I had to reinforce in my mind that I am in control, and indeed, that I can control my future and my destiny, although it's not quite so easy. I'm ok and there's no lasting damage. I've also booked a doctor appointment for end of this week where I intend to request diazepam to see my through the next few weeks.

It's been another weekend of much thinking. Before disability I was hugely successful in my field, and as I look back it's as though it's another person. While I've never had much self-worth, self-esteem, self-respect and self-value I was able to produce enough to get me through the day, kind of "fake it until you make it".

I think it's this that I struggle with the most over this month, that my exposed childhood emotional state was an easy target and the damage inflicted so many years ago will never disappear. I seriously need to boost those traits.

Indeed, over the years of my posting here, reading thousands of posts and giving my thoughts it has been I who cannot see the sheer scale the wanton destruction of my childhood has caused, and the associated damage the secondary explosions have caused. I doubt I'll ever fully come to terms with it, certainly not while my parents are alive.

You're all amazing people here, freely devoting time to selflessly help others when experiencing dysfunction and toxicity. I am truly humbled to be part of this community. I'll be here over Christmas.

Hi Jollybobs and Lex. I'm glad you found your way here although I am sorry for what each of you are going through. Guilt and anxiety are very common when trying to deal with families like ours but I will write more to you tomorrow when I've had a proper chance to read your posts and to think about what this means for you. I hope you don't mind waiting. I just didn't want to read and run.

As difficult as it is, please try and get some sleep tonight. You both sound worn out. Will talk to you in the morning.

certainly not while my parents are alive I hear you Steve, I'll be here for Christmas too, I hope you're ok

Has anyone gone no contact and feel like they can move past the guilt absolutely yes, Jolly reading your post I'm thinking, please cut her out as soon as you possibly can, she will only get worse and worse and the longer you leave it the harder it will get. There is no doubt in my mind that nothing good will come of having this woman in your life! Her fur babies will always come first in any case, I have been there with my mother although she's more like a full on animal hoarder of these days ....from what I hear

Lex thank you for linking us to your back story, this sounds completely chaotic and very difficult to cope with. How are you doing now?

Can I join in? I just want to write something down. I do and don't have a dad at the same time. He's alive, I'm going to see him soon, but my whole life he's told me he's dying and also that I'm wrong a complete disapointment. I go through long periods NC (over 2 yr at the moment).

I had therapy after my exH left me after an affair 4 years ago. She pointed out that I accepted bad behaviour (passive aggressive victims) as conditioned. We all accepted my dad's behaviour and felt guilt that we didn't make him happy until 6 years ago when he developed extreme OCDs. Since then he thinks we should all be punished and are out to get him.

Writing this now I'm thinking I probably shouldn't see him.

Hi Chockmallows😊
I agree you shouldn't see him, why would anyone want to see someone who treats them like that!?
Might he benefit from some professional help though

Thanks Ulterego I have previously asked him to seek help (pleaded, shouted, cried), but he evades the problem being him and as he is capable of independent living I can't force him to get help.

He is highly damaged by his mother (she never acted like a GM) and that makes him manipulative. His weapon is words to make people feel worthless. I used to feel more maternal responsibility towards him than anything else. Now I put my DC first and he has said he will wait until they are older to see them as he cannot be a GF.

Steve that is so fundamental, that need to have some control in the chaos. That is such a huge part of our issues, unlike people without all this dysfunction going on around them, the fact that where we would, in normal circumstances, be inclined to go to as our place for stability ie our families they are the problem not the solution. So where there should be some stability is actually quick sand it is so friggin destabilising.

Choc that sounds awful. You haven’t written any reasons in your post at all that suggests seeing you Dad would be of any genuine benefit to you. Do you believe it would?

Myduck He said he has information for my mum and said he wants to meet me. He said the same to my younger sister. I don't want either of them involved. My partner says he'll come along too, they have never met.

This is still a bad idea isn't it?

Do you feel you have some kind of obligation to see this man? It's most definitely a bad idea and will only lead to pain and suffering.