"But we took you to Stately Homes" November 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
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December 2013
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May-August 2019
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October-November 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thank you so much, folks. You’re absolutely right. It’s not my responsibility. Roll on psychotherapy! Going to have a warm bath and get to work.

Your mum maybe did have a crappy childhood, but that’s not your fault and it’s not your responsibility to fix it. You’re not her consolation prize - the good daughter who soaks up her pain.

It's the internalised monologue though - mother/father had a shit upbringing or the fabled "I must have been a horrific child", and of course the parents are always eager to pile-on.

SimplySteve yes, sadly.

How are things with you? Settled in?

Yes thanks, I've also boycotted mother's birthday, I'm rather surprised she's not been on the phone! Won't be visiting over Christmas/my birthday either. It's so empowering.

Glad to hear it, not easy but necessary.

Yuri the cat back in the vets for the night. Cardio appointment being brought forward. I feel devastated. Am I going to ask my mum to help me? Am I fuck. People really show their true colours in a crisis. I’m going through the laughably clumsy things she’s said over the years in my head. A particular fave. A friend’s mum died. “Oh tell her I could be her mum”. On every single fucking level, that’s wrong. God, I am so angry. I feel like battering down the door of the psychotherapists and demanding treatment right now. It’s dawned on me that my reaction to my asking for help and her not “being able to” is hugely symbolic of all the ways I’ve felt let down by her. Yuri is me. I don’t think I can go NC but I really need to talk to someone professional about this. It flares up every so often and it’s hugely painful for me. I don’t know how you can ignore someone’s pain. It’s the ultimate betrayal. She’s 73 (and fighting fit) and I don’t want to feel the guilt because I didn’t do the “right things” at the end of her life. I want to find a way of moving through the pain and getting strategies to cope.

Just checking you’ve done some of the recommended reading on the front page Monkey

I find I get much more clarity when I’ve sorted out in my head which of the narc’s behaviour is abnormal. Then I can get my boundaries set before my internal voice finds reasons why I should be looking for repair. I find spending some time on the Out of The Fog website really sorts me out.

I second what Hero says, Monkey. Sometimes you have to see it laid out in black and white in order to feel you can reset your "normal" closer to the real normal.

I am sorry you are having such a tough time, you and Yuri. Fellow cat lover here. Yuri is family, isn't he?

the rage has ebbed away, along with some of those boundaries, and I have become very vulnerable. That has enabled her to hurt me quite badly
as soon as you soften or drop your guard they move in feeling for any weakness that they the can exploit to gain a hold over you
never drop your guard when you are in the shark tank!
Never engage with your authentic full self, only ever interact via a persona, anything you give them or tell them can and will be used against you

@Herocomplex @SingingLily
Thank you. I’ll check out some reading. It’s so ambiguous that you DO need to see it written down. This kind of stuff is really good at making you doubt your own perceptions. Yuri is total family. He’s only two and a bit. When I was very ill with bipolar two years ago he was my kitten mate hanging out with me.. He’s utterly beautiful and my partner is Equally devastated aboit it for himself and also he knows how much Yuri helped to get me better. I spent two weeks off my head at my mum’s with her hilarious lack of grasp of the situation right at the end of a proper full blown episode. Hilariously, she kept asking me if I wanted to go out for lunch with her and her friends - this could have been hilarious/disaster (depending on your sense of humour) as I was off my fucking head. So, getting an equally nutty kitten a month or two later was a much better solution, trust me.

Hi guys, I think I may have found my people and even just writing that makes me feel so guilty and sad I posted a thread in chat earlier and was told to come onto here. I’m having a really, really hard time with my parents at the moment (but in all honesty, they’ve been appalling my entire life and this is just the cherry on the cake)

I’ll copy and paste my thread (it’ll be long, sorry) to save my tying to explain it all again here.

My parents have always been dysfunctional and pathological liars. They have been shit with money their whole lives and as a result, can’t afford to live on their pensions and had to sell their house here in the U.K. which was near their children and grandchildren and move to another country (that we do have connections to/ family in) to free some cash up for them to live on. It was totally out of the blue the move and the reasons they gave were that they wanted a change, they could get a much bigger, nicer property in this country and that they were struggling to live on their pensions (due to shit financial decisions their whole lives) and needed to free up some cash. So that’s what they did at the beginning of the year. Myself and my sibling begged them not to go, I said how would they get access to healthcare, my dad’s in poor health and needs it etc. I was told I was being stupid and to stop worrying.

They bought a house (after 2 months of searching when they had effectively made themselves homeless by selling/ moving out of theirs before they’d actually even gone to this country and looked at properties. In that time they were having to live with family in this other country and myself and my sibling when they were back in the U.K, which was frequently!) The house they bought needed doing up and a lot of work done to it, it had been sitting empty for 10 years and the electricity had been cut off. They moved in in June and STILL don’t have electricity. They say that it’s the electricity board that is holding everything up, then the next story is that the house actually needs to be re-wired, the latest story is that it doesn’t need to be re wired, the electrician was trying to rip them off so some guy has come round to do some stuff to it and it should only be another couple few weeks, blah blah. In the meantime they have no heating, can’t charge their phones, have a hot shower etc. The situation is ridiculous, they say it takes 4-5 months in this country to get electricity switched back on if the property has been vacant a long time. We’ve done some research into this and that’s BS. More lies.

Since they ‘moved’ to this country in April, they haven’t spent more than 3 consecutive weeks there without coming back to the U.K. for about 10 days at a time. They find various excuses to keep coming back every couple of weeks. Great you’re all probably thinking, you didn’t want them to go in the first place? Except for pretty much that entire time they have been staying with us. Half the time they wouldn’t even ask, they’d just say ‘We’re coming over on Tuesday for a week, hope that’s okay.’ My husband has now had enough. He’s said no more. He doesn’t mind them staying for a few days every couple of months but no more frequent than that and I can’t blame him. Who would want to have their in laws constantly coming to stay all the time?! His reasoning is, they chose to move to this country, so they have to live there. Not just keep on living here at everyone else’s expense.

I told them this a couple of months ago, it was awkward but I’d had enough too. So since then, they’re still been coming back pretty much as frequently and for as long, but staying with my sibling a couple of nights and then the rest of the time they pay to stay in hotels. They are literally haemorrhaging through their left over money on the house sale at an alarming rate on ferries back and forth to the U.K. as they won’t fly as they like to have the car for when they’re over here, and now they’re paying out for hotels too.

Healthcare- You can get access to free medical care in this country, you have to apply for a health card and so long as you’re below the income threshold you’ll get it. You may not be entitled to ALL of it if you’re above the threshold but the minimum pretty much is free GP visits and some prescriptions. My dad was adamant that they wouldn’t be eligible for health cards. I said well you can’t live in a country where you have no health care so you’ll have to apply. I see no reason why not. I said they can’t rely on the NHS over here as if anything were to go really wrong (likely with my dad’s health) he may be too ill to travel back to England for health care and not just that, where are they going to live if one of them needed long term health care over here? After having a row my mum promised me they’d be applying for health cards. She then told me on the phone a week later that they’d applied for them.

My mum also told me that she knew they couldn’t keep coming back over to the U.K. every 5 mins and that it was my dad who was always insisting on it, she knew he didn’t really want to be in this other country and kept finding excuses to come back. He won’t do anything without my mum so I said she had to stand firm next time he suggested they come back and say no, he can go but she would be staying put. She promised she would.

My dad has now gotten some bad blood test results back from a GP appointment he had over here a couple of weeks ago when they were last over. I spoke to her on Sunday and she admitted they were coming back to the U.K. tomorrow so he could see the dr and staying for a week with some friends. That’s all lies, they’ll be getting a bnb/ hotel again and lying about it. I said surely their medical cards must have come through by now?! She said no. I just knew she was lying, I had a feeling that they’ve never even been applied for. I’ve just googled it and it says the average wait time for a medical card from application in this country is 14 days. It says it may take a little longer if there is some information missing. They supposedly applied for these medical cards about 6 weeks ago now and every time I broach the subject with my mum she tells me they haven’t heard anything back yet. Complete BS. Even if they needed additional information they’d have been in contact to ask for that and she’s saying they’ve not heard anything at all. They’ve lied to me again.

Today I’m just at breaking point. I’ve got the stress of my dad being ill, potentially life threatening, knowing they’ve got no electricity STILL in their house after 5 months and STILL haven’t got access to medical care. I know that this continuous state of them coming over every 3 weeks and pissing all their money away on ferries and hotels is just going to continue. They won’t be honest about whether they’ve made a mistake moving and whether they actually need to just get the electricity sorted, put that house back up for sale (they have done it up quite a bit so it should be worth a bit more than what they paid for it) and move back here, even if it means them living in a 1 bed flat somewhere. That’s if they could even afford that, I have no idea what they can afford because they’re always so cagey about their finances.

I feel an enormous sense of guilt that I can’t offer them to live with me (we do have the room) and just alleviate all this (my sibling hasn’t got the room to accommodate them long term) but it’s my husband’s house too and he just wouldn’t have it and I don’t blame him. They’re only in their 60’s, it would mean them living with us forever more.

My relationship with them is so damaged now, it has been for years really as at times they were really shit parents growing up and now I’m 30 and contemplating children of my own, I’m beginning to see how crap they were at times and am so resentful.

My dad’s barely speaking to me due to it all and my mum isn’t really either. I have no idea when they’re due to arrive in the U.K. tomorrow or when my dad is due medical appointments etc.

I just can’t see where this is going to end. They just don’t seem to care about how they live their life and the impact it has on others. They can’t and won’t stop lying and get aggressive and tell me to pretty much F off if challenged on it.

I’m so worried about what’s going to happen to them long term, I’m worried they’ll end up homeless. I’m worried my dad will get really Ill and they’re literally living in the middle of nowhere, in another country in a house that at the moment has no electricity. I feel like they’re angry and resentful towards me as they feel we’ve got lots of room and should just accommodate them.

I’m not sure what I’m expecting from posting this. I’m just so exhausted with it all, none of my friends etc know the full extent of what’s going on, I get asked weekly by people all cheerily ‘How are your parents getting on?’ And having to smile and say ‘yes, fine’ is just getting harder and harder. No one understands why they’ve moved over there, everyone thinks it’s odd but I’m too embarrassed to tell them it’s because they literally can’t afford to live here anymore.

If you got through the above then for you!

I am now going to read some of these stately home threads as at the moment I feel so alone, like I’m the only person in the world to have dysfunctional, shit parents and it’s a lonely place when all your friends come from really stable homes. They just don’t get it and I don’t even try to explain it tbh, half out of embarrassment.

Hi @honeyhoneyhoney

Sounds like your parents tick several of the "me, me, me" narcissistic triad boxes I'm sorry to say. Does it feel like the frequent trips to the U.K are to "keep an eye on you"? That's what your post is suggesting.

What does stand out is that many people who post here are stuck in the Fear, Obligation, Guilt triangle - the feeling that they are the parents and we must always pander to them to appease their failings. Yet I see a strength, a determination in your post, that you are sick of the shit and are ready to kick arse.

Your parents are liars, as your investigations have shown. Things will no doubt be more difficult due to your fathers ill health, but I would suggest emotionally protecting yourself, you've been hurt enough and you don't need more angst.

During your childhood, were there any discrepancies between the care you, and your sibling received?

I'll take my glass of red now please, large glass obvs and take care

Hi @SimplySteveRedux,

No, definitely not because they want to keep an eye on me, they’d have to give a shit for that.

My dad has never liked me, he always favouritised my brother growing and pretty much just ignored me, to the extent that my mum’s family stopped speaking to him because of this (and other things) I was v v close to my mum though, thankfully. However, she was also awful in her own way, affair after affair. Refused to work despite the fact we were always in dire financial straights.

She used to go back to her home country, the country that they are now residing in, she’d pretend that she was only going for a week to visit her family but then would ring us (aged about 9) and say, actually she wasn’t coming back and was going to live over there and it was up to us whether we wanted to stay with our dad or go and live over there with her. Who the fuck does that to their children?! 3 times she did that to us growing up, I have massive abandonment issues now because of it.

My dad was and still is a gambling addict, which is partly the reason they’re still in dire financial straights.

So that’s a brief history of the fucked up pair of them. There’s so much that I have missed out. We’d be here all night.

My brother has 2 children of his own now which my mum and dad dote on and can’t do enough for. They love seeing them. I’m the black sheep because I don’t have kids yet. They make no effort with me anymore. I’m not close to my mum anymore, her doing anything for me is a chore. My dad won’t really let her see/ speak to me. This isn’t said out loud but arranging for her and I to do anything just us 2 is virtually impossible nowadays. She has to phone me when he’s not around and when he obviously appears she says ‘right your dad’s here now so I’d better go.’

I guess all this isn’t helped by the fact the last few years I’ve been ‘on’ at them a lot for their shitty life choices.

Since they moved in April we’ve argued so much and the last couple of months it’s been constant. I’m so tired of it. I just want to cry. I’m not close to my brother and I have no other siblings and no other family here in England. I feel so fucking alone.

I just want my mum tbh but I don’t know what’s going to happen to her/ our relationship. She’s so ruled by my dad and nothing will ever change whilst he’s still alive.

I’m just so sad and angry that things have ended up like this and that I spend 90% of my time feeling anxious and stressed because of them at the moment. I feel like I’ve reached breaking point today. I feel so low, I keep crying. DH knows something is up as I’m quiet but I just feel so depressed. Like i literally can’t even speak.

Sorry, I’m taking up this entire thread now. It just feels good to write it all down and vent

Hi @Honeyhoneyhoney

Welcome.

First of all there’s a lot going on there. Make it simpler for yourself.

If you’re anything like me you spend a lot of time second-guessing them. Stop. Take them at their word, let them take the consequences of their actions. Then deflect. Decide what works for you.

By always being there you are allowing this to happen to you. They have carefully placed you in a vulnerable position.

You have to be very clear. They cannot be your responsibility, your wellbeing and (I think) your relationship with your husband is going to nosedive.

Do some of the reading recommended at the beginning of the thread, especially the Out of The Fog website.

Your parents can help themselves, really, they can. But if you continue to be so enmeshed with their narcissism it’s going to get very hard for you indeed. It sounds like only their feelings matter to them.

Take care of yourself, you don’t need to carry all this, you can put most of it down 💐

you can put most of it down

That is brilliant advice. I only wish I learned it 2 years ago. I’ve found they don’t want to know anyway, people like that want to continue in a world of denial and want people who allow them that.

Yes @myduckiscooked they make up a whole new narrative over and over again, your role just changes from useful crap-taker/offspring to boast about/referee for arguments/shoulder to cry on/desperate-for-love admirer, to become ungrateful, disrespectful cunning child.

It’s obscene really.

Honeyhoney, it sounds so awful and excruciating for you😳
to put things really bluntly I think it's either you or them and you don't want it to be you, do you?
They put you through such a lot of trauma as a child that could make it very painful and very difficult for you to cut yourself off from them, we will be here for you (((hug)))
Echoing what others have said I think it would be good if you could stop engaging with them over their problems because when you do that it's like you pick up the ball and you run with it, it's not your ball, it's not your game, it's not even your sport you can go off play darts somewhere else, leave them to get on unhindered with their stupid heath Robinson game of silly buggers

leave them to sort out everything on their own and then they will see the chains of causes and effects....well hopefully they will, probably there's fuckall chance of that happening, but leave them sort out everything on their own anyway

"you can put most of it down" - I love that. I need to remember that too because part of the problem is the speed at which all the drama always snowballs and then it's too late.

@Honeyhoneyhoney - I completely agree with Hero about taking them at their word. My mother lies constantly. Some of it is attention/reaction seeking and the rest is to distract herself and everyone else from the mess she's made ( a lot of it is financial), the things she's done, the previous lies she's told. She can't or won't actually face up to her own life and what she's done with it or what she's done to anyone else so she just keeps spinning stories and different versions of things to distract everyone and to keep reality out of reach. It's easy to get reeled in, only for the line to get cut as soon as you've wasted time, money and your patience trying to do the right thing, keep the peace, supply the support that's being demanded, which I'm completely brainwashed into doing,

Except I've stopped doing this now. I tried calling her bluff for a while, saying I would call my sister if she'd said my sister had been horrible to her etc but it just encouraged more lies and playing off of people and not everyone realises how much she lies. So now I mainly just say 'oh' to every bit of drama. Grey rock. I have no advice or opinion, I just treat what she's saying as a statement of fact. To be fair I'm in a position where I'd rather be NC with her but just can't do it so this is my best coping mechanism, but after a life time of giving in to all her demands and walking on eggshells around her it's a compromise of sorts. It's surprising how capable she suddenly is when I've got nothing to contribute either financially or emotionally to whatever he latest saga is. This evening I also discovered that despite a good few years of her claiming she was completely broke and getting to pay for all sorts of things such as a new boiler, house repairs, new TV etc that she received an insurance settlement for something two years ago (which she claimed wasn't going to pay out) and has basically had a fair few thousand in savings to call on all along - apparently the money can't just be used for 'any old thing' or for paying us back either of course.

Make some rules and do your very best to stick to them. If nothing else it feels like you're looking after you not just them.

I just read something and it just makes so much sense. "It surrounds you, sometimes it's easy to believe but sometimes it hurts more than it seems".

Morning, Honeyhoneyhoney, I'm glad you found us, although I am sorry for everything that's happened to drive you here. We all know how that feels.

Please don't ever apologise for writing loads on here. We all do it because we desperately need to get it off our chests and because sometimes, it's only when you write things down - put them in some sort of order - that you can see (a) how tangled they are, and (b) how tangled your own feelings are as a result. You sound so worn down by it all.

First things first - and I warn you, some of this will be hard to hear because they are your parents - nothing you say or do will make any difference to them whatsoever. Nothing. Even if you offered them a permanent home with you, all meals cooked, all laundry done, a taxi service to and from the GP and the hospital, constant attention and support - They Won't Change. Your father will still gamble because money burns a hole in his pocket. Your mother will still enable him. They will still both lie through their teeth to evade all responsibility for their foolish choices. They will still dote on your brother and his children. They will still treat you as the scapegoat and treat your home like a hotel. They will not take responsibility. They will still expect you to.

The difference to you, however, will be considerable. You will feel obliged to run round after them. You will try to help your father to look after his failing health but you will feel frustrated and angry because he won't thank you and won't take any notice of you. You will be tired, exhausted, on constant red alert and tearful. You will snap under the weight of anxiety and unfair sniping and criticism. Your husband will also reach breaking point. Your relationship with your husband will be damaged. Your life - the good life you and your husband have carefully built together to the point where you are thinking about having children - will lie in tatters around you.

And they still won't change. Because - and I'm going to repeat what I said earlier - nothing you say or do will make any difference to them whatsoever.

How do I know? The bit about your father's serious condition, the constant prodding to get him to look after his own health, the constant arguments with both of them to see sense, the 24-hour taxi and concierge service, the strain it put on my own marriage - that was me.

So stop now. Stop being the responsible adult for two 60-something kids. They stand or fall by their own decisions. It's easy to say and hard to do, I know, but the fact is you have already done far more for them than anyone could reasonably expect and it's now going to cost you your sanity and possibly your marriage. So stop. Step away from them and let them figure it out. Because you are battering your head against a wall for no good reason except to give yourself a permanent headache. And when you stop doing it, it will hurt for a while but gradually, the pain will go away.

If you can accept this - and I truly hope for your own sake, you do - then lots of us on here can give you sensible advice about how to step away and how to manage the inevitable feelings of guilt and obligation. You will get through this. You will get your life back. You may even end up stronger as a result. 💐

HoneyHoneyHoney

Please take heed of what the other respondents have written here and do not make yourself further be either their sounding board and punchbag for all their inherent ills. All these two want to do is further drag you down with them.

It is not your fault they are like this (their own parents did that to them) and you did not make them this way. People as disordered of thinking as they are never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

They are responsible for their lives turning out as they have done; not you. No-one put a gun to their heads and made them act like they have done. These two have not fundamentally an iota changed since your childhood. Drop the rope these two keep on holding out to you; you are doing so basically because they have trained you since soon after birth to put them first with your own self and needs dead last.

Thank you so much for the replies. I honestly can’t say how good it feels to FINALLY tell people and to finally be able to talk about it, anonymously and hear other people’s views on the situation.

I’ve been hand wringing and walking around with a horrible, heavy sense of guilt since they left in April. I have constant guilt every time they’re over and we don’t put them up. Not helped by the fact I think my brother and his partner probably think DH and I are stingy as fuck. ‘All those spare bedrooms, you’d think they’d just be staying with them all the time every time they’re back. It’s hardly a hardship for them’ I can imagine it being that type of thing that’s being said.

The trouble is my brother either doesn’t notice any of this/ and or care, or he just blocks it all out and leaves them to it and puts them up whenever they ask. They only ever ask to stay at his 1 or 2 nights that they’re over though as they just don’t have the room and I don’t think my parents get much sleep due to the children being up early etc. But, anyway, I suspect he comes across as the nice, reasonable one. I feel like screaming, why am I the only one beating this burden?! Why doesn’t he share any of it?! They’re his parents too!

I don’t mind them staying with us for a long weekend, say Fri-Mon every couple of months, but they absolutely cannot live with us and that was pretty much how it was going. Every other week it was getting, and as I said, towards the end they weren’t even asking. Just ringing and informing us they’d be over for 10 days (I mean why 10 days?! Why not just come for 3-4 days and stay 2 with my sibling and 2 with us, then there’s not so much the worry of them outstaying their welcome all the time) and ‘they’ll probably stay with us Mon- Sat, hope that’s okay.’ DH was getting furious, he was like that’s not how you ASK someone if you can stay at their house?!

The thing is, to other people they’re all sweetness and light. Lovely, polite people. They wouldn’t DREAM of acting that way with anyone else as they know it’s bloody cheeky and rude. They also wouldn’t have dreamed of acting that way before they moved either. Before they moved, we could not get my dad for love nor money to stay at ours the night. They tend to come to us each Christmas now and we have a few drinks and play games etc into the evening as you do and time and time again we’d say ‘why don’t you just stay the night so you can have more than one and not have to drive the 45 mins home at 11 at night.’ Nope, point blank refused. Yet as soon as they moved and they were then more desperate for somewhere to stay, we can’t get bloody rid of them.

Except now it’s gone the opposite way again. They’re got offended and embarrassed when I told them they couldn’t keep coming over every 2 weeks and staying for bloody 10 days. That it’s not fair on DH constantly having them in his house etc. So now the last few times they’ve barely stayed at all. Except now obviously they’re pissing all their money away on bloody hotels that they can’t afford which just adds to my guilt and worry. Why the F won’t they just STAY in the country that they CHOSE to move to for 8 consecutive weeks FFS. What was the point of them moving there if they’re never actually going to spend any time there?! Their house and electricity etc would’ve all been done and dusted by now if they weren’t fucking around back here constantly. And why move to a country with potentially no free healthcare if you’re poor and you know you’ve got poor health?! I mean what plant is the man on?! What does he expect to do, nip back in an ambulance if he has a heart attack?! Nip back and live with us if god forbid one of them got diagnosed with someone bad that required weekly hospital visits etc?! When I ask my mum all this (because obviously I never say any of this to my dad) she just says ‘dont be stupid, of course we wouldn’t be living with you.’ So I then get angry and scream ‘so where the fuck would you live then whilst you were receiving treatment?!’ I’m just so fucking MAD. Argh.

Sorry, I’ve just gone on and on again.

I ended up breaking down and crying to DH last night who was, as ever, amazing. We came to the same conclusion as what you guys on here have said. That there’s just no point in trying anymore. They’re making their beds and however hard it is for me to ignore it all, they’re just going to have to lie in them as I haven’t got the energy to keep fighting with them anymore.

I haven’t heard from them, I think I just need to cut contact for the next week at least and just give myself time to breathe. And then that’s it. I’m done, no more trying to give advice as what’s the fucking point?!

@Honeyhoneyhoney you won’t make any sense of it all because there is no sense to be made. They are creatures of impulse playing at being adults.

You can get some perspective by focusing on how you improve your boundaries. See your fear, obligation and guilt for what it is.

Sorry, I’ve just gone on and on again.

You can go for as many miles as you need :)

You might find outofthefog.website enlightening too.