FIL a creep? Or overreacting?

[icksahoy]

This is my first post and I apologise if this is lengthy or incoherent, but my head is all over the place right now.

I have been married for 7 years, in a relationship with my DH for 10, and have always had a fairly nice relationship with my FIL. He is a rather 'old fashioned' man when it comes to women though and we have frequently fallen out when I've felt that he is trying to control me. Mainly this is a result of me being out with friends while my DH stays at home with the kids (rarely happens).

Anyway, we fell out last weekend over this exact issue. Normally we don't speak for a few days then everything is forgiven. This time however he text me asking me to go for a coffee with him as "he is in bits and loves me more than I know". Alarm bells started ringing at this point.

I met him for a coffee and he insisted on holding my hand as we walked across the carpark. Kept trying to hold my hand while we had coffee. Tells me he gets jealous when I greet people with a cuddle and a kiss on the cheek, as I never do that to him. Asked me if I loved my DH and mentioned several times that he loves me. Seems to think that a good FIL/DIL relationship involves kisses and cuddles and hand holding. When we left he insisted on a hug goodbye and a kiss. So I kissed his cheek and he laughed and said no and kissed me on the lips.

This whole encounter has made me feel really icky for a want of a better word. And very uncomfortable around him. I've not told my DH exactly what happened as he is very very close to his dad and I don't want to break his heart. But I have told him that his dad needs to leave me alone for a while.

I guess what I'm asking is did I overreact? Is he simply being an overly affectionate FIL, who is wanting a good relationship with his DIL, and just getting it horribly wrong? Or am I right thinking this is really really creepy and I need to keep my distance?

OP Its very telling that your DH won't ask if you are OK - I think it's because if he does its him admitting that you will have something to be not OK about. Horrible situation for you - you are very strong and I admire you

It's so difficult for your DH - I can understand that. But now is the time you will see him for who he truly is.

As for your FIL, surely you can never see him again?

Don't let your DH minimise this behaviour. This is an awful situation to be in - but you have to confront it. If your DH doesn't back you 100%, that's going to cause irreparable damage to your relationship.

Your H is not on your side, he’s on his own side and will prioritise his wants at every opportunity. You knew deep down he wouldn’t be and that’s why you hesitated in telling him.

Your H is smart enough to trot out the ‘I’ll support you’ line but not man enough to mean it. Prepare for pressure to develop amnesia to smooth his ‘easier life’ pathway.

Where to go from here, I don’t know but please do not buy into your coward of a H’s desire to prioritise his sleazy father.

Just reading that creeped me out.

Excellent post from Agent Johnson.
Be prepared for your husband to try to sweep this under the carpet especially with Christmas coming.
Protect yourself and your daughter-- don't be in a room with that creep again

That's terrible. Your husband should be ashamed.'

Have you told him how you are feeling & that you expect his support? You shouldn't have to but perhaps this will get him to face what has happened

Your DH has been trained from birth to excuse his father's behaviour. Remember, he grew up watching his mother being emotionally abused. No doubt she told him frequently that his dad is good really, it isn't his fault, it didn't really happen like that, etc.

Just read these boards, there are several on the go where abused women push their children to be close to the dad and where they hide what he's really like from them all while pushing contact. This will have happened to DH.

He will be genuinely perplexed as to why you are not reacting "normally" to his dad's behaviour. He will have 100% focus on how to make dad look good and feel good because that's what he was trained to do by both his parents.

He won't break out of that easily. You will have to go in hard I think. I'd book a relate session and tell him you want couples counselling because of his reaction to you being sexually assaulted has left you deeply troubled. He needs the wake up call that you won't be putting daddy's feelings first and you won't change your story because bad dad wants to continue abusing whenever he likes. Be trouble. Be fierce and loud with DH to get through the FOG enveloping him. Wake him up. He won't be happy at first but later he will be.

This must be so very hard for you.

Does your H have a history of making everything about him?

@anjumm That's all kinds of fucked up

I think it was a joke.

What has fil actually denied? Is it specific? That he said he loved you and kissed you on the lips?

Way, way out of order. He shouldn’t be touching you full stop. He definitely does not get to hug and kiss you on the mouth, that’s weird. If your dh can’t support you with this, you need to think about next steps l

LTB

And I don't say that easily or very often ☹️

Hi. Everything is still shit. I've been trying the last few days but something that has gotten to me is he (my DH) has not once asked me if I'm ok

I’m sorry to hear that. It is the extreme situations that really put everything into perspective. I’m sorry you are not getting support from him and hoping that this doesn’t make you realise that, even without being a creep, he is as self-centred as his dad.

Some of you are being quite harsh about the Ops husband . Yes of course the Op is the victim here. But her husband is caught in a terrible dilemma, it’s easy to see the right course of action when your are not in the middle of it.

Her husband has been brought up in what’s likely to be a very dysfunctional family, where everything is centred around his father and keeping him happy . It’s not that easy to shake off decades of conditioning .

He is in a terrible dilemma, but he still needs to support his wife not sit for days deciding whether he will support his dad or his wife.

His decades of conditioning is a good point, but if that past experience has left him unable to act reasonably and support his wife, she is still alone with a husband she can’t count on.

I totally agree he needs to support his wife. But i don’t think it’s fair to say that he’s as self centred as his dad and things like that.

I think his heart is in the right place, as he did go to confront his dad about it. I suspect he was naively thinking his dad would back down and agree to apologise, whereas he’s come fighting back and blaming the OP ( I assume ) . Attack is the best form of defence etc.

Remember that the Ops husband desperately wants to believe that his dad is a basically good man who sometimes goes a bit OTT/ old fashioned / traditional / is misunderstood. That’s what the Op thought until recently too - it’s their family belief system.

It’s tough to suddenly realise that he’s an entitled abuser who is playing power games and threatening his own sons marriage.

It’s a lot easier to see this from the outside. The Ops husband probably suspects that if he takes a stand against his father, he will lose his whole family. Which could we’ll happen - his father has spent decades building this edifice that supports his behaviour. He and his wife may defend it to the hilt.

I don’t think the husband here is selfish and send centred - I think he’s very conflicted and has no idea what to do now. Which is why I suggested counselling upthread. He probably needs an outsider to help him see what’s going on and respond appropriately to his wife’s needs.

Let me say again - I agree that the Op is the victims here and needs support, a lot more than she’s getting now.

But the husband is also a victim in this dysfunctional family - he’s probably been attacked and threatened by his own father , and maybe his mother. That’s very hard.

The more I think about it the more examples I come up with from over the years of inappropriate comments or touches.

You need to draft up this list now as you will then be able to see the patterns of behaviour and the totality of his abuse will become crystal clear.

All of those individual incidents / moments when your gut was telling you something but you felt confused in your head were all real proactive incidents of abuse in plain sight.

You need to know that you are 100% right - in what happened that day, in what happened in the past, in how you felt and how you feel about your DH reaction. You are 100% right.

You need to know that your DH is behaving badly and that this could be due to him also being a victim of his DFs manipulative, hidden, smoke and mirrors abuse and toxic control over the years. This might EXPLAIN his reaction to you right now - but it doesn’t EXCUSE it in the short term.

You could be generous, for now, if you believe your DH to be at his core a kind, respectful, honest, loyal man, and look at his actions as him going through the numerous stages of grief as he has had his family narrative obliterated.

Hopefully he is in the very first stages of grief - shock and denial - if so he will then move on to anger (with his DF), then depression and then acceptance. He might go back and forth between the stages. He might get “stuck” at denial. He might well need outside objective professional help to pull him though this. No idea how long this could take or even if he will progress through.

None of this is helpful to you tho. He is either psychologically unable to help you right now or unwilling to help you right now. Only you in time will know which place he is at and where your tolerance and boundaries lie.

In the interim I would look after yourself and set your own firm and clear boundaries - I would not look to him for support, approval or validation but would make sure I sought the support I needed elsewhere rather than wait for him to see the light.

It is also not for you the victim to spend your finite emotional energy drained trying to get him to see the light. You need to conserve it for healing yourself and riding the emotional roller coaster which will now hit your family which ever way your DH decides to jump.

You were sexually assaulted on that afternoon - and for years before that you have been abused, groomed, tormented and manipulated. The darkest thoughts that you had about him were and are true.

Know that.

Don’t let anyone gaslight you anymore. This is a #Me Too in your family. How did your DH behave when you mentioned “confusing” incidents to him before - did he minimise them?

What boundaries and next steps do you want to put in place with your FIL right now?

How are you?

Hi. It's been nearly a year since this all happened. And all of you lovely people out there have helped me so much.

Unfortunately things are still a bit shit. I'm trying really hard to keep my marriage strong. But I'm finding myself giving in so much to 'pressure'. My DH really seems to live in fantasy land. He's accepted what's happened. And agrees that I never have to see my FIL again. But he still pushes for the kids to see his parents. And he is still very close to his dad. And I feel pressured by everyone close to me to keep them in my kids lives. For what it's worth I don't believe that he is abusing my daughter, but I'm keeping a VERY close eye on things.

My husband and I are not in a good place. Our sex life is non existent now. I finally got him to agree to therapy, but then lockdown happened and it got harder.

I'm trying really hard for my marriage, but I think I, at least, need some counselling to deal with this, as it is still affecting me every day.

Hopefully I'll have a happier update for you all soon.

I'm so sorry to hear that, OP, especially after all this time. It seems his Dad still has a hold over him.

I hope you can get counseling.

Hi I’ve just read the thread for the first time. I’m sorry to hear your dh has not supported you. So many wise posts on her. I hope you reread them all.

I'm not surprised your marriage is struggling. Your DH doesn't really have your back. He's trying to carry on the relationship with FIL as if nothing has happened. Sadly I think nothing will be resolved until he truly wakes up to what his dad has done.