How can I be less of a doormat and more of a nice diva??

[Hresdyu]

I have been doing a lot of self reflection lately and I think that my trouble with men is because I’m far too accommodating and can be a bit of a doormat. This obviously becomes unattractive and ultimately the relationship breaks down or doesn’t go anywhere. I really want to stop this pattern but I don’t know how to.

Basically I’m a nice person so I go out of my way to be kind to others and understand things from their point of view. When this happens in relationships I think it comes across as unattractive.

I have a few acquaintances who treat other people in a way that I would hate. For example, one particular person (A) is married but puts her husband down in front of other people. She’s mean to him and is the kind of person who’s rude in restaurants but her husband adores her. He just laps it all up.

The problem is that I actually really like who I am. I like that I’m a nice, considerate person, but I am so fed up of repeating this pattern with men.

I’m in my early 40s now. How can I stop this from happening? How can I be less of a doormat and more of a nice diva??

'Make it clear to him that you completely understand that he can’t make plans until last minute because of x y and z, but that that might mean you aren’t available
I fear that the relationship would end if I did that.'

This is where you (and I) go wrong. You can't put up with everything for fear of losing here. You've admitted here (I can be the same) that it's not always just about being 'nice,' it's that you're afraid to not give someone everything they want for fear of losing them.

This devalues you in their eyes, because they know you'll put up with anything, sometimes for fear of losing them.

You have to insist on something if someone's behaviour is making you unhappy (depending how unhappy it's making you.) If it's making you sufficiently unhappy, you don't actually have anything to lose by telling them you don't like it.

It is said, as you say, that if you say what you like and don't like, people respect you more for it. I had a disagreement with a friend recently, and he later said that my sticking up for myself made him respect me more.

Another friend- we were not getting anywhere communicating online about an issue we were having. Trying to say the right thing on messenger was really stressing me out, and my therapist etc were saying that text is just not the best method of communication for anything in depth or a disagreement, because you don't know people's intonation or expression so you don't know quite what they mean.

So I msged to her, ending ' It just feels like a minefield I have to navigate, and I think we'd make more progress in the flesh.' She has not got back to me, which is disappointing, but soon after I said it I was at peace. I no longer had to worry about what I was going to say via messenger etc to put things right. It was done and there was no more stress.

Forgive the long message lol- basically you need to no longer do everything you can so as not to lose the person. This is probably part of what makes people, you feel, treat you inconsiderately, rather than the fact that you're nice. If a situation is bad enough to really annoy you, you have nothing to lose by letting them know.

I think the problem is you are defining your self-worth by whether you are in a relationship.

Example - you don't want to be less of a doormat because you deserve to be treated with kindness and respect. You want to be less of a doormat because you think it's unattractive to men.

You don't want to do a hobby because you would rather be with X guy than go to a hobby.

You don't want to tell the surgeon that he will need to accept that you will make plans and continue with your life since he can't make plans, in case he then leaves you.

In each of these cases, the person you are not being kind to is yourself. And you justify it (on some level) because you feel you are worth less than the other person.

What kind of model of relationships did you see growing up? Were women defined by whether or not they had a man? You may not even be aware of how much you're conforming to these outdated ideas but it seems very apparent in what you describe.

Do you know why you don't think you deserve better than this?

I would suggest you stop dating completely for a while, as your low self-esteem appears to be attracting one tosser after another, which is only reinforcing your feeling that you don't deserve better, or that there isn't anyone better out there for you.

I'd think about having some counselling and coming up with a plan to work on your boundaries and self-esteem, set some goals that will make you feel more like the person of value that you already are. From what you've said here, I bet you have significant professional achievements of your own but don't really think of them as being as valuable as the same achievements in the men you're attracted to?

What would be one amazing thing you could do that would be all about you and has nothing to do with any man? Climb a mountain, learn an instrument, swim with sharks? (Not all at the same time). Your immense kindness could also find far more deserving recipients - you could run a charity, volunteer for Shelter - help people who actually need help, instead of just take from you selfishly.

Make 2020 the Year of Hresdyu.

@Hresdyu also as I read your posts it is clear to me that you have some beliefs or habits that cause you to perceive people in your life as parents, not peers.

I say this because you practice a kind of unconditional loving that is not appropriate for romantic relationships. I.e. you love these people like a child loves and forgives an abusive, neglectful parent.

Did you have a parent who you had to work quite hard to understand? Someone who had a lot going on, where you had to forgive and forget a lot in order to maintain the relationship?
Or did you observe a parent doing this for someone else?

I have read Why Men Love Bitches. I’ll have another read of it. I’ll check out the other books too. Thanks.

you're afraid to not give someone everything they want for fear of losing them.
Yes, you’re right. Totally right. I think it’s because I love people in general and get attached easily but also rarely fancy guys so when I meet a great guy I want to hold on to him.

I have excellent boundaries with friends. I never have people taking advantage of me yet I’m still giving. Whatever I’m doing right in my friendships, I need to start doing the same in relationships. I think it’s my willingness to walk away.

In each of these cases, the person you are not being kind to is yourself. And you justify it (on some level) because you feel you are worth less than the other person.
I see what you’re saying but I’m not sure about it. I think it might even be the opposite. I know that I’m a very good, kind and very understanding person. I think these qualities are unusual and I don’t expect to see them to the same extent in others. I see myself as being different in that way. I don’t feel like I’m worth less. I feel very worthy!

What kind of model of relationships did you see growing up?
My parents divorced. I didn’t really have any relationship role models. My Aunt was very subservient to my Uncle.

Were women defined by whether or not they had a man?
Definitely. My Mum used to say ‘don’t bite your nails (aged 5) or you won’t get a husband’, etc, etc.

I think your choice of men might be off.
Your chose to date a surgeon who has a child. So firstly he has a very demanding job, which may require working unsociable hours and being on call. Secondly he has a child.Either you settle for seeing him on an infrequent basis and make it clear you too have a life or you become a boring doormat. Do you think a person like that wants a boring doormat?
Next you date someone doing a PHD. Again this is very time consuming. He doesn't have time for a relationship does he?
Why did you accept him cheating on you? Would you not have felt better to tell him to go to hell and kept your head held high?
Look at who you are dating.
Do they seriously have time for a committed relationship?
Next , there is nothing wrong in being a nice, good person, nothing wrong at all.
You need to find a nice, good man inreturn.
Perhaps date someone with more time for a committed relationship.

From what you've said here, I bet you have significant professional achievements of your own but don't really think of them as being as valuable as the same achievements in the men you're attracted to?
You might be right there.

I have booked some counselling. I’m going to ask if we can focus on setting boundaries. I honestly feel like I have good self esteem. I really like myself. I just wish these men could see how great I am too!!

What would be one amazing thing you could do that would be all about you and has nothing to do with any man?
I would like to do this and will have a think.

Your immense kindness could also find far more deserving recipients - you could run a charity, volunteer for Shelter - help people who actually need help, instead of just take from you selfishly.
Fortunately my job necessitates a huge amount of giving and kindness so it’s a perfect outlet for me.

you love these people like a child loves and forgives an abusive, neglectful parent.
I can see that.

I had a difficult mother who was over enmeshed but also got angry and aggressive with me and I had to keep the peace a lot. I could never express anger or say how I felt.

Thanks emilybrontescorsett. All the professional men I see around in my wider circle have these types of jobs. I guess I’m attracted to similarly high achieving men. I too have a job like this.

Re the cheating, I didn’t find out until years later when we both had new partners and were friends. I pulled him up on it and he denied it. I chose to continue the friendship anyway.

Would you not have felt better to tell him to go to hell and kept your head held high?
No, not really. That’s just not me. I could fake that response if I had to, if that’s what’s necessary. I’m just not like that.

OP, have you heard of co-dependence? Some of your posts indicate you might have a degree of this?

I would venture to say that you are v v out of touch with your own feelings, especially your anger.

This is completely understandable given the mum you have. How else could you have survived childhood if you'd not exiled your anger?

Your efforts not to feel anger or rage were the product of a resourceful, intelligent child doing the absolute best thing at the time.

I would say that as an adult, this very clever childhood choice has, over time, stopped working so well and has caused difficulty as you "age out" of situations where the same choice will have been useful and good. You're now surrounded by adults who are looking for peers - but normal adults feel rage and anger when they are mistreated - so a normal, emotionally healthy adult would not feel able to trust you enough to be in a relationship. Because folk who won't feel anger or say no, arent trustworthy in the long run... others will perceive you as lying to yourself, perhaps lying to them.

You're going to need to find your anger I think op.

Without it I'm not sure you'll find a peer who will partner with you. Only folk who are pretty abusive/dismissive will be ok with a partner who feels no anger after mistreatment.

I think that you need to value yourself, if you don't then others won't. As you had to suppress your feelings around your primary care giver and were not able to express anger, confusion or hurt, this has had a massive impact on your interpersonal relationships. I think that you're still stuck in the child pleasing mode.
I had an abusive mother too, my rage was always simmering, it's only as I've grown older that I've been able to process the harm that this has done me.
My reaction has been the complete opposite to yours, I've never taken any bad behaviour from anyone, if someone treats me badly I've kicked them into touch and never looked back. It's possible that I've hurt some men during my life but I'm more important to me.
In my life the only person that is more important than me is my son. As a pp said, find your anger op.

Only folk who are pretty abusive/dismissive will be ok with a partner who feels no anger after mistreatment.
This is an interesting point. I think I have been known to attract controlling, dominant, selfish men.

Omg you need to prioritise yourself. To quote RuPaul - if you can’t love yourself how can you love someone else. You need to appreciate who you are and your achievements. Don’t devalue your worth to a relationship with this menz da best bullshit.

I had a difficult mother who was over enmeshed but also got angry and aggressive with me and I had to keep the peace a lot. I could never express anger or say how I felt.
I really think you should read @rvby’s post very carefully, in the light of this. It seems extremely insightful. You suppressed your feelings and anger as a child, and now you’re not really even sure what they are. (I am similar, btw). You won’t be in an equal relationship until you’re clear with yourself where your boundaries are.

You need lots and lots of therapy.

I read your post and went on YouTube. One of the relationship counsellers I follow has posted this video today which sounded like it could be you OP. If you have a spare 5 minutes it might be worth you having a quick look at it.

It is clear from your posts that you are a people pleaser.

You are right though that many men do not find nice, kind doormat type women that challenging unfortunately. My ex was like you and described herself as nice. She was nice but she came from a fanily with a very domineering mother and could never state what she wanted, so she has always put other people’s needs first at the cost of her own happiness.

She would never say no, she would always sit on the fence. For example if I asked “What shall we watch tonight” - you choose. “Would takeaway would you like” - I’m easy. “Have you got any ideas about where you would like to go on holiday this year” - I’m just happy being away. This after a while becomes annoying and was one of the reasons why we split up. I needed more and didn’t want to have to spend my life spoon feeding someone.

I may be barking up the wrong tree but it sounds similar to me. Maybe you need to look for a specific type of man that would be happy with you as you are and not a version of you that you don’t want to be and shouldn’t have to be. My ex met someone else a year or so later and seems happy enough. I wasn’t the man for her but there is usually someone out there who values your qualities.

Excuse the typos

Thanks everyone for your replies. I will reply properly but I have my first need for practical real-time advice please!

So, there’s a guy who I have been flirting with who I really like. We have met up and get along very well indeed but we are both very busy. I decided to be proactive and when we were texting last Thursday I suggested we meet up on one of my days off. He said it was a great idea so I sent him a list of dates. He said he would check the diary and get back to me. The first possible date was tomorrow and I haven’t heard anything. The natural me is thinking that he’s been busy at work and I know he has a very sick relative who he was going to visit this weekend. The issue is that I know he won’t suddenly say let’s meet tomorrow but I think it’s rude and he should have got back to me before now. It’s very possible that he didn’t look at the dates and will look in a day or two and be horrified that some are in the past. How would you handle this in a high value way. Old me would wait for him to text in a few days with his suggested date of the following week, I’d happily agree, etc. Should I handle this differently? Thanks!!!