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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How can I be less of a doormat and more of a nice diva??

400 replies

Hresdyu · 16/11/2019 16:26

I have been doing a lot of self reflection lately and I think that my trouble with men is because I’m far too accommodating and can be a bit of a doormat. This obviously becomes unattractive and ultimately the relationship breaks down or doesn’t go anywhere. I really want to stop this pattern but I don’t know how to.

Basically I’m a nice person so I go out of my way to be kind to others and understand things from their point of view. When this happens in relationships I think it comes across as unattractive.

I have a few acquaintances who treat other people in a way that I would hate. For example, one particular person (A) is married but puts her husband down in front of other people. She’s mean to him and is the kind of person who’s rude in restaurants but her husband adores her. He just laps it all up.

The problem is that I actually really like who I am. I like that I’m a nice, considerate person, but I am so fed up of repeating this pattern with men.

I’m in my early 40s now. How can I stop this from happening? How can I be less of a doormat and more of a nice diva??

OP posts:
Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 19:32

I texted him because I like him and I enjoy interacting with him. Also because I was genuinely walking past that building and I wanted to let him know. I missed him. I wanted to get into a nice text chat with him.

OP posts:
ElloBrian · 02/12/2019 19:32

OP, a person who deals with things in a high value way would think to herself, ‘why am I bothering to put my effort into this when I’m getting so little back? I am worth more than this’. And she would stop trying to engage with this person and instead she would step back, value herself highly and not contact him further because she knows she has better things to do with her life than be running after someone who doesn’t appreciate her enough to treat her with courtesy and respect.

Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 19:41

ElloBrian, let’s say that I do that. When he calls me tomorrow afternoon, friendly as anything, how would a high value person react? Thanks.

OP posts:
Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 19:42

He doesn’t let me disengage.

OP posts:
rvby · 02/12/2019 20:00

I texted him because I like him and I enjoy interacting with him.
Why do you enjoy interacting with someone who makes you feel so insecure that you start threads on the internet to plan how to talk to him and analyse his responses, or lack of response? What's enjoyable about that?

I missed him. Why do you act on this feeling? Are you aware that you can choose whether to act on feelings? Grown ups don't just react to feelings. They stop and think about them, and consciously choose what to do next. This can include not texting him and instead doing something kind for yourself.

Just because you FEEL like doing something, doesn't make it a good idea. Heroin addicts feel like taking heroin. When they recover, they have to be really brave about not acting on those feelings. You're a grown up. You can also learn not to act on your feelings.

Also because I was genuinely walking past that building and I wanted to let him know.
I wanted to get into a nice text chat with him.
Can you not see how pathetic you must seem to him? He is sneery and half arsed with you, and you run after him with cheery texts trying to get him to talk to you...? Don't you feel like you're letting yourself down when you act on these kinds of impulses? Again, you can actually choose how to respond to your feelings. Make choices that show you have self respect, your life will be so much happier! Surely you can see that?

He doesn’t let me disengage. How is he forcing you to text him and talk to him? Are you aware that you can ignore him? YOU can choose how this goes. He's not in control. You are.

AFairlyHardAvocado · 02/12/2019 20:02

He doesn’t let me disengage.

I know it's hard to unpick all this but read your statement again. It doesn't make sense - you choose to disengage you don't need the other party's permission to do so.

You have to become a fully active participant in your own life OP, it sounds like you can do this in every area other than relationships so maybe it's worth some counselling like you said earlier? I've found it totally life changing to be honest.

UncleHerbie · 02/12/2019 20:02

You seem lovely, OP. I've learned through bitter experience that if a man likes you romantically, he will make the same efforts that you do to meet. I also agree with the poster who said u need to find your anger. You can break this cycle

ElloBrian · 02/12/2019 20:07

They would not pick up the phone.

Olivapopespopcorn · 02/12/2019 20:15

There is nothing wrong with you, just date emotionally intelligent men. Some people thrive on the drama and mind games of rudeness but others, would rather avoid it and go for a kind, direct and all round nice person.

Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 20:15

rvby, you’re right. I don’t have to act on every feeling that I have. I tend to be a feeling person more than a thinking one but I can exert some self control and try to think a bit more than feel. Thanks for the alternative perspective.

Can you not see how pathetic you must seem to him? He is sneery and half arsed with you, and you run after him with cheery texts trying to get him to talk to you...? Don't you feel like you're letting yourself down when you act on these kinds of impulses?
I think he likes me and enjoys my company so I hope he’s not sneering and laughing at me. But maybe he is. It’s a sobering thought.

OP posts:
Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 20:17

Him not allowing me to disengage ...

What I mean is that I have tried to cut contact in the past but he always gets back in touch with me and wants to chat to me or meet up with me. I could ignore him but, because I am very attracted to him, him giving me attention, seeking me out and showing interest in me, reels me back in.

OP posts:
AFairlyHardAvocado · 02/12/2019 20:19

But that's absolutely still you choosing not to disengage. I learned I needed to take responsibility because I used to do the same thing and say they wouldn't leave me alone when they wanted me back. But it was still me making an active choice to get reeled back in. You are choosing to engage again because you are hoping for the dream and not the reality. Hope that makes sense and doesn't sound too harsh Thanks

Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 20:19

Maybe it's worth some counselling like you said earlier? I've found it totally life changing to be honest.
I had my first proper session today and it was helpful. I’m hopeful that it’s going to really help. We didn’t touch on this particular issue though, although obviously the therapist knows about my friend.

OP posts:
Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 20:20

They would not pick up the phone.
I would feel like I was playing games if I did that.

OP posts:
TatianaLarina · 02/12/2019 20:20

It’s just a power game. You can choose not to be pulled back in.

Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 20:21

There is nothing wrong with you, just date emotionally intelligent men.
Thank you. I know I need to change my type!

OP posts:
AFairlyHardAvocado · 02/12/2019 20:24

@Hresdyu

(They would not pick up the phone.)
I would feel like I was playing games if I did that.

But it would only be a game if your end goal was to make him more interested in you.

It's not playing a game if you don't pick up because you've realised this is not a healthy relationship for you to be in.

People are saying you should be ignoring calls to move on and respect yourself, not to play hard to get.

Your end goal should be healthy and happy - this guy isn't gonna help with either of those in the long run.

ElloBrian · 02/12/2019 20:29

It is only playing a game if you intend to eventually pick up.

ElloBrian · 02/12/2019 20:30

Your problem is, you’re going to let your desire to pick up the phone win over your sense of emotional self preservation. None of us can help you with that. It is a choice you make each and every day. All we can say is, that you are making that choice, and that it is unwise. The rest is up to you to decide.

Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 20:33

Well I don’t want to break off contact with him.

OP posts:
rvby · 02/12/2019 20:34

When he phones you, after a long period of keeping you waiting, heis inviting you to play a game with him.

When you don't pick up, you are refusing to play a game.

When you pick up, you are getting into the game.

I've noticed in many of your posts, you have a weird belief that if you have an emotion, that if you don't instantly act that emotion out in real life without thinking about it, that you're somehow "playing a game". As if it is dishonest not to do the first thing that comes into your head.

If that's what you believe, I want you to understand that you are very easy pickings for an abuser.

Children act on their feelings. Often their feelings lead them into all sorts of manipulative games. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

Part of growing up is learning that your initial emotional responses are not gospel. They are automatic responses, they are the least articulate and often the cruelest, stupidest, most manipulative parts of us. They are the parts of us that developed before we learned to think.

People who have properly grown up have learned that feelings are just the first stage. You acknowledge them when they occur, and then carefully consider what response is the right one. You don't just go OH MY GOD I LIKE HIM I HAVE TO ANSWER HIS CALLS NOW FOREVER AND EVER!!!! that's what a teenager does, at best. You think about it and make a conscious choice in line with how you want your life to look.

I put it to you that your mother wanted you to be at the service of your guilt and shame at all times. She wanted you to be constantly reactive to her guilt trips, temper, etc. etc. So she taught you from childhood that it was "manipulative" to take time to think your emotional responses through, and make a choice that was good for you.

You now see that playing out in your attempted romances.

You need to wake up, I mean that in the nicest possible way. You sound like a child who is constantly outplayed by the grownups around her. Other adults are thinking before they act. You are not. That doesn't put you in a good position.

rvby · 02/12/2019 20:38

Cross posted.

Look, op. If you want to keep talking to this guy, do so. But in that case, your initial question, "how can I be less of a doormat", is moot.

You are choosing to be a doormat, so get on with it and please don't abuse the goodwill of people in this thread to enable your own self-sabotage. The people here are trying to answer your initial question and you're no longer asking it.

Try restarting a thread with "please help me get more attention from this abuser guy, I really fancy him" and at least you'll get folk answering in good faith

AFairlyHardAvocado · 02/12/2019 20:39

Well I don’t want to break off contact with him.

Ok. Well you've already said you don't have the willpower not to be reeled back in when you talk so you've kind of made your mind up to continue letting this confuse and upset you. So you're choosing to do something you must know won't make you happy or healthy. Up to you though 🤷🏻‍♀️

Hresdyu · 02/12/2019 20:42

Isn’t there a medium ground in which I can still be in touch with him as a friend (which is how he perceives) things but I retain my dignity and behave in a high value way. So he realises that he can’t treat me badly, that I won’t be an object of derision/scorn/whatever?

OP posts:
Jingers5 · 02/12/2019 20:42

I think this stems from your childhood, l stand to be corrected though.

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