What the fuck else can I do to find a partner?

[UnaCorda]

I have tried: OLD (Guardian Soulmates, Love and Friends, Plenty of Fish, Ivory Towers, eHarmony, OkCupid, Match...) various apps (Tinder, Bumble, Hinge...), speed dating, singles' events, evening classes, post-graduate degrees, friends of friends, general networking, walking groups, residential courses, singles' holidays, general going out, inc. to films, plays, restaurants, solo holidaying, chatting to people on the bus (occasionally - I'm not the bus nutter), even some talking therapy and STILL I'M SINGLE after well over a decade.

What else can I possibly do? I don't want to be single, I don't want to be celibate, I don't want to be lonely, I don't want to be on my own all the fucking time.

I'm not hideous, I don't smell, not overweight (not that being overweight means you can't be in a relationship), I'm introvert but not paralyzingly awkward in company, I work, have my own flat, lots of interests, and only one cat. I have a very straightforward life with no children or ex-husbands to complicate things. Why is it so difficult to meet someone?

I still subscribe to it being luck more than anything.

I think that’s only true if you subscribe to the concept of ‘the one’ – I don’t. If you live in a decently populated area; it’s more than luck. If you’ve actively pursued all reasonable avenues (hobbies, evening classes etc…) over multiple years, then -for me- the most logical conclusion is that you probably aren’t very well suited for LTR’s. I suppose you could argue standards, but that’s a bit of a double edged sword. The more specific, the harder to find. Compromise.

Again that doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with you. Can’t stress this enough.

Malvolio is not stupid. He wouldn't be just cavorting around in a pantomime yellow stockings like a stooge. He is trying to woo Olivia. It doesn't feel quite right. He's too clever for that.

I don't know the play well, but is Shakespeare trying to say that, especially in the throes of infatuation, even people who are otherwise fairly clever can be subject to flattery and lose their ability to think rationally and intelligently?

Thanks for all the thoughts and advice since I last posted.

To the people who think I'm horrible and snarky, and no wonder I'm single, etc: sorry, but I essentially wrote "I have tried umpteen evening classes and even had therapy to help in my quest to find a man", so if your response is, "Why don't you try some hobbies and have some counselling?" it's not hugely helpful.

To the people who made kind and thoughtful comments: thank you, I really appreciate it.

OP I think it's the self esteem. One or two people on the thread have picked up on this. Self esteem issues can fuck things right up. It can make you see the world differently, it can subconsciously project an aura that says the opposite of what you want to say or project. Poor self esteem is the main reason why some of best best people I know are single. A quiet inner confidence, the feeling that the person really likes, respects and is at peace with themself is the sexiest thing ever. Sort that and I really believe you'd be best placed to find someone.

Unfortunately as many others have pointed out, even with magical levels of self esteem it is just luck. I've been single three years now and may be single forever. I'm... not okay with that, as such. I mean, obviously I hope I do meet someone. But I can't force it to happen and I don't think OLD is for me. So I may in theory be single forever although I'm only mid 30s. Sometimes that makes me really sad. Sometimes I think 'fuck it' and get on with living a rich and glorious life. Sometimes I think my future life partner is out there and I just have to be patient. It's crap, I get it. Sometimes it sucks.

@ShatnersWig your list of dealbreakers makes you perfect for my best friend, who is wonderful. Sadly she is also a lesbian. Otherwise it would have been a match made in heaven. She even works in a theatre! Maybe you could turn her. She detests the idea of having kids as well. A pity, really.
I hope you find someone right for you

IME of friends' OLD experiences, the most unlikely ones seem to have the most success, strangely.

The two most successful ones I know are definitely not lookers and are 53 and 58 now! The younger dated loads of guys and settled a couple of years ago. She's a very straight talking and rather cynical, charmless person (who I found quite draining TBH!). I think she had this don't give a sh*t confidence about her though which men were attracted to.

The older one came out of a divorce with a massive sex drive brought on, she thought, by the menopause. She's spent a good few years on Tinder having one night (and afternoon!) stands with many men in their 20s and is still going strong. You would never believe it to look at her.

A close friend of mine, who's now 57, got disillusioned with OLD after a few years and threw herself into helping organise a local festival, without any view to meeting someone. She ended up falling in love with the organiser and they're still together after five years and he's lovely!

Keep going OP!!

It's difficult for us to comment accurately because we don't know you.
Do you have a close friend who you could get some honest feedback from?
Perhaps you've already asked them, if so what did they say?

I tell you what op, men LOVE an accent - just move abroad?

Gosh I'm sorry to say OP you're attitude in your messages stinks! I understand your frustration but it is seeping out everywhere. If this is how you come across in messages on the dating sites no wonder you are struggling.

It isn't about what you do or how much you have tried, it is about what you put out there and the attitude and vibes you give off. Have a look at your attitude and how you may come across.

I'm sure you will have some snarky answer - but you did ask what you could do....

Rude As several of us have stated throughout the thread, the OP is venting - which is what the majority of threads on Relationships are doing about whatever situation they are in. Are the majority of MN users snarky in real life or speaking like that to strangers on dates? Of course they aren't, and you have to be bit dim to think they are. And as the OP herself pointed out, it's a bit dim also to suggest she should do things she's pointed out in her very first post that she's been doing. Actually, I find that more snarky, not bothering to even read someone's thread properly then offering advice, than venting through frustration.

Rhubarb That's the main issue for me - the childfree thing. I have to accept that makes my pool tiny, but it doesn't make it easier when you feel bloody lonely. I did have a 10-year relationship with someone who didn't want kids (she was 10 years old than me too) but the age gap did become an issue unfortunately. So unlike all these mid-40s men looking at early-30s women in the hope of becoming a dad, I actually look for women of - shock horror - my own age.

OP - in your very first response you mentioned having therapy to deal with “false starts” due to “emotionally unavailable fuckwits”.

Do you think to some extent it’s become a self-fulfilling prophecy? You expect them to be fuckwits and so you’re giving off mixed signals?

FWIW I don’t think there’s any counselling in the world that stops other people not being right for you, it almost sounds like you were trying to fix yourself for problems that weren’t of your making.

The only counselling I think could be useful would be looking into acceptance of the way your life is and then moving on.

I’m not sure if it’s an urban myth - but don’t some supermarkets have an unofficial “find a partner” night? You know the sort of thing - singletons flocking to their local Tesco at eight o clock on a Friday night, roaming the aisles and hoping to meet the man/woman of their dreams?
Maybe there’s no such thing. But I would suggest, OP, that you carry on looking everywhere, as you say you do. Head up, clocking everyone in sight.
And please don’t disregard anyone you perceive to be beneath you. I know someone super-intelligent with a well-paid job who has met a lovely working-class man who treats her like the proverbial princess. They don’t share all the same hobbies, but who wants to be in each other’s pockets 24/7 anyway? He goes to watch football with his mates and she has friends to go to the opera with.
What I’m saying is don’t limit yourself to finding a man who’ll be your be-all and end-all. A nice, ordinary man who treats you well, and who you fancy, sounds good to me.
I’m not exactly saying “lower your standards” but I can assure you that my friend is enjoying her time with this man who doesn’t tick all her boxes but is an absolute delight to be with.

@ShatnersWig there are plenty of men who do look for women their around their own age. However they don't stay on OLD for long.

The main issue people over 38 have is if you don't want children or can't even accept a partner with adult children then your pool of people who aren't horrible is extremely small.

I found my partner at 40. I have older friends and acquaintances who have found husbands and partners over 40. They live/lived in London.

Interestingly one of the things with all myself, family, friends and acquaintances who met people using OLD we are with people that we could have ended up with if we met in a pub due to personalities. On paper some of us wouldn't have matched and that's because one person in the couple did some research and played around with their online profile - there are YouTube videos on how to do it - to meet someone who matched better. (Funnily I looked at the YouTube videos after finding my partner. I had already logged on using another email address as a man to check my profile and tweak it.)

One of the things I learned about online dating is that some men are a bit awkward and shit at articulating themselves online. Typing things like "Hi babe" seem a bit lame but there may be more to them than it seems (alternatively there may not but you might need to delve a bit further to see). Doesn't mean they aren't lovely articulate people, just that they don't quite know what to say. I suspect things are different now to when I was using Match 15 years ago, Tinder didn't exist for one thing.

Also worth pointing out is when I went on my first date with DH I could quite easily have walked away after. It felt awkward and a bit stilted. But I decided to go for a second date anyway and then we really clicked. OLD is such an odd thing, places you into a sort of unnatural position where you're having to make inane small talk with someone you don't know. I'm not a natural "networker" so totally out of my comfort zone. So if you are struggling a bit with low esteem see if you can push yourself a little bit. I think it takes time to build relationships with people (whether friends or romantic) and most people just don't get instant fireworks.

Cola Indeed, but on MN, the vast majority of threads about online dating tend to suggest that around 90% of the men are only looking for women a good deal younger than they are. I know lots of people who don't want or have children who aren't horrible. Unfortunately they aren't single or we're not attracted to each other. I'm well aware the pool I am fishing in is tiny.

What I did find when I was OLD years ago, was after a year, I tried some different sites and then a year after that went back to the first couple of sites. And I'd say at least 75% of the profiles were the same ones I'd seen originally. I find it hard to accept the statistic that most people find their partners now through OLD. I know dozens and dozens who've used it but only two who have had a long term relationship out of it (ie beyond six months; most fizzle out after two or three).

I agree with @Ruderidinghood. Attitude seeps put. Especially if you are frustrated. Anyway @Shatnerswig how do you know OP doesn't have that attitude in real life? Do you know her?

I also agree with the self fulfilling prophecy thing @JacquesHammer (again that boils down to attitude). And yes I agree on the counselling thing as well.

Perhaps @Shatnerswig and OP should get together provided OP is looking for (I assume Shatberswig is) a man.

There I solved it! Two birds one stone all that.

Might it be partly down to where you’re living? For example, you’re looking for a man with a degree and a professional job, but living in an area where most men don’t fall into this category?

And do your friends know you’d be up for blind dates, or would they think it tactless to suggest it?

I‘m now very happily married to someone who gave me a pretty bad first impression, so I’d also suggest agreeing to first and second dates even if you’re not initially attracted - some people are so much better when you get to know them!

But mainly, yes, it sucks being unwillingly single and there don’t seem to be so many men looking for 40 year olds - I remember this well

That's the main issue for me - the childfree thing. I have to accept that makes my pool tiny, but it doesn't make it easier when you feel bloody lonely

@ShatnersWig 's post above explains why most of us who are single are single. It's that we have deal breakers that restrict our pool. In that sense we are single by choice.

The main issue people over 38 have is if you don't want children or can't even accept a partner with adult children then your pool of people who aren't horrible is extremely small.

Hey! I don't have children and I don't want children and I'm not horrible! I know a number of fantastic women who also don't have children and don't want them. It's actually not super uncommon at the top end of many high powered jobs. A lot of the succesful women have got to the top because in some fields it can be easier if you don't have children.

In fact I meet all of ShatnersWig's list. This is me

1. non-smoker
2. doesn't have children
3. not sporty
4. loves theatre

I'm more relaxed about the doesn't have children in my list because I would date a man with adult/non dependent (in the sense of in the home, needing to be taken to school) children. I wouldn't be interested in someone with young children at home.

My big dealbreaker is income level which is my dealbreaker that makes my pool tiny. I don't want to date someone who isn't roughly in my earning bracket for reasons I've posted above. It is very important to me that I have a partner at least on my earning level and it really matters to me.

These types of dealbreakers that make the selection pool tiny is what results in singlehood. It's up to anyone what is important to them and there is never any right or wrong about it however random or obscure your dealbreakers are.

You just have to accept that there are two paths. One stick to what is important to you and your own standards and realise that part of that stacks luck and the odds against you. Two drop your standards and easily find someone.

OMG @Shatnerswig do you have any other word to describe situations or people other than "dim"? OP has asked if there is anything else she can do and I am suggesting she perhaps looks at how she comes across - nothing wrong with that. By her own admission she has self esteem issues. I think it is a valid point. I know many people who weren't having luck with online dating and when they changed their attitude and became less frustrated they had more success. A couple are now in LTRs through OLD.

I think the trouble is that you are also struggling to meet someone and my post touched a nerve.

And FYI of course not all people who have a bad attitude on here portray the same IRL, but certainly a percentage do. It's naive to think otherwise. We simple do not know which do and which don't unless we know them personally.

Also I think the thing with OLD is that it is essentially quite shallow. Of course this depends on the site you are on, but really if you are swiping, the criteria (for most not all) is looks and what your blurb says (if people even read them some of the time). I have never had a problem getting a date or getting matches. But I am definitely the one who chooses and decides who I go out with. In other words, the chooser not the choosee. I have had many phone conversations through OLD and at the end of thr convo when they want a date I have often said no. Sometimes they want feedback which I find a little strange but that's another story.

Maybe OP you need to look your experiences as empowering. If you can't find anyone maybe it is because you are simply choosing not to date those that are out there.

@DorothyParkersCat
. . . drop your standards and easily find someone.

This is my point in a nutshell. It’s not such a bad thing. Men who earn less than you are not necessarily deadbeats or gold diggers.

There’s a lot to be said for being adored by a bit of rough.

Rude But my point is several posters on here had already made that comment about the OP potentially being snarky and she and others explained it was merely venting and others actually said they didn't find the OP snarky at all. So it's all perception. It wasn't necessary for someone else to come on and have a go at her again. I know lots of words besides dim but I didn't want to be really rude, as some people on this thread object to words like fuck being used.

It's also frustrating when people clearly can't be bothered to read a thread. Again, a few comments ago, someone has asked "Might it be partly down to where you’re living?" A glance just at the posts the OP has made already shows the OP is living in London. That's what makes people snarky on MN, doesn't automatically follow that is their default position in every day life.

So it's all perception

Indeed. So asking whether she might be perceived in this way in real life would be valid?!

Rudeness surrounding “stop looking” is another case in point. If that is some people’s experience isn’t it acceptable to mention that? Or do we pretend that it doesn’t happen so as not to be “trite”?

@JacquesHammer well said
@Shatnerswig the point is OP asked for advice/opinions and people are giving them. Perhaps if things are being repeated the OP needs to take heed because there is validity there.

Jacques I don't disagree - asking whether she might be perceived in this way in real life is valid. If you use that phrase of yours or something similar. Unfortunately, while one of two have done so, others have done so in a rude rather than a reasonable manner. I mean, one poster put it like this: "You seem a bit of a dick. Maybe that's why? Try to be less snarky, people are only helping!"

That's the opposite of your phrasing, isn't it? And to be fair to the OP, right off the bat the first time someone said she was coming across as bit snarky she apologised and did explain why. But people continued to press home that point, often unpleasantly.

As others have said, there's a difference between being direct and maybe a bit blunt than downright rude.

@Shatnerswig Maybe you should practice what you preach lol