Newish man and money comments...

[WhatTuesdayBacon]

I’ve been dating someone for around 4 months. He’s quite keen (I like him but I’m not as certain yet).

I’m around 10 years younger than him and he’s recently paid off his mortgage (he chose to tell me this early on!). I have a good job but have only really just got on the property ladder, have car repayments and only just starting to pay off anything decent with my student loan. That said, I do have spare money and can afford to go away and do things. My point really is that while I am independent, like most people it’s not always easy and if something goes wrong like a boiler breakdown then it’s your usual panic situation. (Yes I am saving a little as I go before anyone latches on to that! )

This man, lets call him Pete, has made a few comments about money that I find unusual compared with people I have dated before. I want to give all the facts so this may be relevant...I had the week before this comment mentioned that I hadn’t stayed out long for drinks with friends as I had overspent a bit last month on a trip away. It was a flippant comment, made in passing when he asked why I was home earlier than expected. Later that evening we talked about going to the cinema one weekend soon and he asked me if i could afford it. I found this comment strange? Almost like he was checking if I would be expecting him to pay, which I find very insulting! I make decent money and he can quite clearly see that I’ve set up life for myself without any help from anyone - I’m not a freeloader. And then on top of that, given he’s paid off his mortgage and likes to comment on that (fair enough he’s proud to have done it at a reasonably young age), you’d think he wouldn’t actually be bothered about forking our 15 quid on two cinema tickets IF it was the case that I couldn’t pay for it.

He’s made other similar comments, for instance I said I didn’t want to pay for a taxi back from town as I was going on holiday soon so I was happy to drive and just have one...he said ‘we’ve got to pay to meet up one way or another and it’s nice to have a drink.’ Again, rather than basically telling me I should pay for a taxi, if it matters so much just drop me off on the way back before he goes to his?!

There was also a night out very early on, date three maybe, where he wanted to take me to some bars he knew of. It was very expensive and when the bill came he said to the waiter immediately that we’d split it. Given that he’d wanted to ‘take me to these places’ where I had no say in the cost as they were new to me, I feel like he should have at least asked if that sort of place was ok before we went in, or been prepared to pay for it. I wouldn’t take a friend somewhere extremely expensive and assume they will spilt a bill with me because I had decided we would go there. It seems rude.

AIBU? He’s generally nice in all other ways but lack of generosity is a turn off for me, especially when someone is wanting to constantly express how comfortable they are and then makes these sorts of comments. I’ve no issue paying my own way (I always chose that option) but his attitude makes me so uncomfortable...

...he made you feel insecure and defensive over your choices. That us important, no one, early on should make you feel like that as it will only ever get worse.

Really? If I’d been seeing a man for four months and I didn’t like some of the choices he made, I’d tell him even if it made him feel insecure and defensive.

Or does that principle only work in one direction, where the man is making the woman feel ‘insecure and defensive over [her] choices’?

As I note above, I don’t know this man and he might very well be a miser, a con man, controlling, a gold digger or whatever other labels posters who have similarly never met him want to attach.

However, I think that this thread has taken a weird turn. Now the OP is being encouraged to never tolerate having her choices questioned, ever. Do you want to be treated like a fragile princess, OP? Since you are training in medicine, I expect not. By all means listen to your misgivings but some of the advice on here would lead you to rule out relationships with 99% of men!

Looks like you've found out the reason for him paying his mortgage off early - he's tight.

You're also trying really hard to justify that you're not a gold digger (which you're obviously not), but that shouldn't even come into the equation. He's obviously making you feel uncomfortable about this and got you questioning your own sanity. It's perfectly ok to say it can't afford this right now' and you shouldn't be made to feel bad about it in anyway shape or form.

Remember he's in his best behaviour (4 months in), imagine how bad he'll be when his feet are under the table. Far too many threads on here about living with tight men

I think this indicates that it can be the man who’s the gold digger- ie he’s the one asking about money etc

I might be in the minority here, but it's considerate to ask. If you're saying you left drinks early because you'd overspent, that might be the case for cinema tickets (a cinema ticket is more expensive than a drinks).

The early stages are exactly the point when you probably don't want to be paying for someone. A lot of guys I know who are dating in this climate are trying to line up multiple dates a week and may be dating multiple people at a time.

This is basically a vetting procedure and would get very expensive (twice as expensive) if they are paying for themselves and their dates every time. It's also shouldn't be necessary of they, like you, have a decent, well-paying job.

I don’t know how I’ve ended up being ol’ Pete’s defender but it was the OP who brought up money first. It was she who told him that she needed to cut back a bit because she’d been on a trip and she who told him that she wanted to drive to a date and have only one drink because she didn’t want an expensive night out. The ‘how much equity is in your house’ question came about in the context of a discussion about moving.

So it’s not as if he is broaching the subject out of nowhere.

Re the expensive bars: the OP isn’t a child. She’s a 29 year old medic with a degree and her own house. She must have had an inkling that the places he suggested were expensive; I know the names of the posh bars in Manchester. I’d have cleared it up during the first round if it was somewhere I couldn’t really afford: I wouldn’t say, are you paying for this then?, but I’d have said, eg, I don’t think we’ll be drinking here all night!

It was clearly a mismatch in expectations. The posters suggesting that the OP should have stormed out when Pete suggested splitting the bill seem to assume that he was exploiting the innocent OP and forcing her to go to expensive places of his choosing. I don’t think so. If they had always split before, that would be his default position.

Hmm. Sounds like he's money-obsessed. Could be careful, could be tight. You need to talk to him about it - tell him if he's making you feel uncomfortable, tell him it's rude to suggest meeting at an expensive bar then to insist on splitting the bill, etc.

Has he ever paid for you on a date? Does he ever buy you gifts? Is he considerate in other ways?

Eugh, I have no time for men who are terrified that all women are gold diggers. Just flat out misogyny. Maybe he doesn’t think that, but his comments would certainly ring alarm bells for me and I don’t think I’d bother pursuing a relationship.

Is it rude to suggest meeting somewhere expensive then suggest splitting the bill? The OP must have known the likely prices in those bars before she accepted the invitation.

It would have been nice if he’d offered to pay, but for whatever reason he didn’t. Maybe tightness, maybe he’s undecided about the OP, maybe he thinks the cost of dates should be split in the early months, who knows?

Some of these responses imply that the OP is on her uppers and can’t afford to go out at all. Not so. I suspect a bit of projection by the ‘he’s a miser, get rid, my ex was just like this’ posters.

I haven't read the whole thread, but of what I have - I'd get out now if I were you. My ex was exactly like this. It's not just a case of being tight, it's a case of being selfish, obsessive about money and ultimately is a huge turn off.
Yes, you may be financially independent- fantastic.

But a man who is in love and wants you will have a provider instinct. If he doesn't want to provide now, he never will.

I'd personally get rid. It starts off like you describe and then you'll get things like I did: "if we have kids, you're going back to work asap because I need to save my money for a rainy day".

You're worth being spoilt. Remember that xx

I've dumped for far less.
Listen to your gut.
And good luck with the conversation.

You don’t need to give him an explanation or a reason, as a Doctor I would assume you could be a bit more direct and decisive . You don’t owe him anything, he sounds mean spirited and penny pinching, and who goes on about paying off their mortgage when they’ve only just started dating?

I think he’s targeting you because of your future earning potential.

How do we know that the OP is ‘worth being spoilt’? No offence OP, I’m sure that you are great. However, do we all proceed through life with the assumption that we should be ‘provided for’ by men who are in love with us and that we should be spoilt? Christ alive. It’s nice sometimes but it’s a bit infantilising isn’t it?

It's funny, these 50/50 types are usually only like this about money, when it comes to lifework and other responsibilities (say, when kids come along) it suddenly becomes 80/20, 100/0, always in their favour. Dozens of threads on here of women who procreate with people like this and write of using savings for maternity leave, looking to sacrifice their career and earning power as they 'can't afford childcare' or hire cleaners and outsource work but the husband has changed nothing in his life.

He makes you uncomfortable 4 months in. He's very keen. Just nope.

How is it different to taking turns to pay, as DH and I did when we first met? Does that mean that we are both ‘50/50 types’ who are keen to shirk responsibility? Sorry to disappoint but we aren’t!

As I said, we went for dinner (London) and he wanted to take me to bars he liked. I don’t know every bar in London and I wasn’t about to look it up on the date. I paid my half and didn’t raise any issue. Since he’s made comments about the cinema I have looked back on that moment in a different way and think he’s actually constantly thinking of money.

If I were going out in London with somebody I hadn’t known for long who wanted to ‘take me to some bars he liked’ and I’d previously shared with him that I wanted to go on more frugal dates, I’d have asked which bars. Unless I were certain that he was paying! Then I’d have found out what the prices were like before I ended up supping one of those £500 ‘treasure chest’ cocktails in Mahiki that Prince Harry was apparently so keen on before he became Britain’s favourite eco campaigner.

Taking turns usually less formal, less calculating to the penny. He's not that, though. 4 months in and he's already pushy AF ('keen'), bamboozled her into paying for a taxi she didn't want, asking her how much equity she has in her house and quibbling about a fucking cinema ticket.

My MO in dating, OP, has always been, 'Would you behave this way or put up with this from a friend?' If the answer is no, that should tell you all you need to know.

He's on the hunt for someone with whom he will never have to share, that's why he's so keen, I reckon, I've seen this happen before.

'I have a lot going on in my personal and professional life just now and some serious commitments coming up, I've realised I don't really have space in my life just now for a relationship so I need to end things now.' And you can do this over the phone, you don't owe him another meet up (interesting how he told you that you have to pay to meet up).

Yeah, if you were already out and then he suggested bars I wouldn't think to look up the prices of their drinks first, either. However, after the first place I'd have had to raise a hand, 'I need to head home now, have a lot on tomorrow.' And then cut him loose right there.

I'd look at it not so much from the perspective of 'the man should want to provide if he loves you' - although that may be true later on, especially if children come into the equation - but rather that two people in what's supposed to be a loving relationship should surely be kind and generous to each other? Not get all uptight about splitting bills down to the last penny. And the more financially secure partner should be sensitive to that and try to equalise things for the their partner. I would say the same for a same-sex couple. I would even say that for two people who were just good friends.

He doesn't sound very nice OP, mean with money, mean with love, as they say. And like pps said, this is actually him on his best behaviour! So it doesn't bode well for the future.

@dontalltalkatonce
you hit the nail on the head.

I noticed that too. The 50/50 equality thing on applies to things that benefit him. But women are still expected to do most of the mental wifework, child care, housework, give up their careers, get paid less, pay more for things, wait for a marriage proposal.

So much for equality

If someone says ‘I’d like to take you to X bar/restaurant’ surely the assumption is that they will pay? That goes for dating or going out with a friend. If people want to split everything 50/50 then presumably you would agree together where you are going, and most people would hardly start googling bar prices before going into the bar if you are already on a date.

He just sounds very tight ... not a nice characteristic in anyone.

I think he actually knows what he’s doing as well - this controlling type is quite clever/manipulative.

He’s probably gathered you’re constantly tired from training/work and is sitting there quietly calculating how he can play things to his advantage - before long it will be “why are you spending money on new clothes for yourself”.

It’s controlling- you seem open and mindful and you’d be happy to have cheaper dates/go to a midprice bar-are happy to communicate if you’re not up for spending much (and I’m sure you’d be the same if he said he wanted a cheap night).

but he wants you to feel a bit uncomfortable and on edge and second guessing yourself. It’s like he’s testing your boundaries now?

Eg with the taxi thing - it sounds kind of trivial, but he was playing a control game of “get you to drop your perfectly sensible and well communicated and polite plan and Do What I Say”

That’s often the first stage to bigger control things. Getting you to drink more than you wanted and take the taxi to “keep the peace”. Then it escalates.

You should be having fun and communicating well and feel listened to at this stage.

It’s not about the money it’s about control.

A dinner out in London and “bars he likes”, is a bit more than a cheeky Nando’s and 2-for-1 mojitos type night-out. it’s going to be £100++

I knew a type like Pete. The first thing he asked was what job I did and how much did I earn? He boasted he earned far more and was an upper-bracket tax payer. He suggested nights out, and walking up to the bar would go quiet so I would get the first round of drinks in while he always held back. Then a meal out where I put down my share + tip and he pocketed the change and asked for a new receipt so he he could claim on expenses. Funny enough he too probed how much equity I had in my flat and then suggested we should buy a property together.

Didn’t last long after that!

“Let’s go to the cinema. Can you afford it though?”

Jeez, where’s the fucking romance? The wooing? When DH and I were dating I was prepared to go halves always, but he often wouldn’t let me and would pick up the tab. So next time we were out, I’d buy the drinks. That’s how it’s supposed to work. When you’re dating it’s not supposed to feel this... transactional.

Even if you’re willing to pay half he should want to shout you cinema tickets because he fancies you and wants to impress you by being kind and spoiling you a bit. You’re not his business partner!