What would you do next? Am I over reacting?

[WhatWouldYouDoNext]

Hi all. This is going to be quite long for clarity. Sorry and thanks for reading.

I have been very close friends with a married man for around 8 years. I'm also friendly with his wife but have a lot more in common with him. It's all above board - our families have holidayed and spent Christmas together, there are no concerns about impropriety.

Around the start of the summer, his behaviour towards me started to change - I feel like he 'argues' with me now for the sake of it (claims to be playing Devil's Advocate but also to hold these views dear, yet has also contradicted himself); has started 'picking' on me - finding fault in what I'm saying; saying things I can only assume are intended to undermine my confidence - things like telling me men have looked at me in 'disgust' or that my 'ego is showing' when I'm simply not being down on myself and that I'm single due to my resting bitch face (joke!). That kind of thing.

We play in a band together. We've gigged a lot over the summer and some of them have included overnight stays and have been a lot of fun so I didn't say anything - not wanting to create an unpleasant atmosphere for the others - and largely dealt with it by ignoring and avoiding but it hasn't made much impact. I did try telling him that his behaviour towards me had changed and I didn't like it but rather than asking what I meant or opening a dialogue, he just said, "I could say the same about you" and shut it down.

A couple of mutual friends suggested he feels threatened by my new friendships within band and is feeling pushed out; that he is jealous because I play a 'higher profile' instrument than he does - not only does this mean that I'm more 'visible' than he is but that if I can't make a gig/left band, I'd have to be replaced whereas he wouldn't. It's been suggested that he is struggling to find his place in the band and that he is trying to be 'blokey' to fit in with the men better - I know that a couple of people find him a bit 'try hard' with a particular persona he has pushed.

I don't disagree with any of that and I think that all of it is relevant. I agree that he has found it socially difficult with them but he really likes them and loves being in the band. I agree that all of those are probably an issue for him. But none of them are my fault or my problem to solve.

However, in the event that I had inadvertently 'pushed him out', at the start of September, I resolved to make more of an effort to spend time with him. Although, the only reason I was spending less time with him was because of how he was behaving towards me.

Nevertheless, I have seen him a few times over the past few weeks and it seemed to all be relatively back to normal. No issues except for maybe a couple of little comments that I didn't like but I wasn't sure if I was just more 'sensitive' to things he was saying now. But there wasn't anything specifically unkind that was directed towards me. So I started to see it as having been resolved.

Anyway, fast forward to a few days ago. We travel to/from band practise together and, at the end of practise, he said it was time to go and he straighted his arm out and put his outstretched hand into my face to push me backwards/aside. I was horrified and stunned. We'd been talking to another man who was visibly shocked by it. I felt humiliated and didn't know how to react.

What I wish I'd done was say, "what the fuck are you doing? Don't you ever fucking touch me like that again!" What I did was try and laugh it off and said to the other man, "he's a bit of a twat, isn't he?" to which my 'friend' laughed and said, "yes I am" but he was behind me and halfway out the door by this point. The other guy just looked a bit shocked and didn't reply.

I had to travel home with him but didn't speak to him and just said I was tired when he asked what the matter was. He was talking about us going out at the weekend so clearly didn't see anything wrong in what he'd done.

I have a long standing history of abuse stemming from childhood and following on to a number of abusive relationships, that still impacts on me now and, coincidentally, the following day, I had a pre-assessment appointment for therapy to deal with this. Which i why I'm not sure if I'm overreacting to this because now I feel I have completely shut down to him. I no longer consider him a friend. I want nothing more to do with him. I don't want to see, speak to, or even be in the same room as him again.

I can deal with the family/friendship side of it - I will just have nothing to do with him but I don't know what to do about band. I don't want to be in practises with him. I don't want to do gigs with him. I don't want to see him in any capacity whatsoever. But I don't see a solution. I could leave but we have several gigs coming up in the next couple of months and I'd be leaving them massively in the shit.

I've since mentioned it to one person in the band who feels that I ought to give it no energy, put it down to being his problem and not let it affect me but I've woken up again thinking about it , feeling angry and with my heart pounding. So I thought I'd bring it here.

What would you do next?

DidILeaveTheGasOn

Thank you. I think I have read it in the way you intended it.

You're right, I am concerned about what other people think. I've had a lifetime (since 3 years old) of my experiences of abuse being minimised, excused and explained away. Told I was making a fuss, deserved it and was trying to make things difficult for people.

I don't trust my own judgement or feelings - that's precisely it. This has occupied my waking thoughts for a few days now and I still keep floundering.

I'm also conscious that when I speak to the leader, it will start a ball rolling that I cant stop - that one of us will have to leave.

I'm concerned about that person being me and losing all that it means to me bit I'm equally concerned that if it's him people will feel I pushed it too far and I'll lose any support I currently have.

It's a generally drama free smallish group of 15. Its laid back and easy going - some of them have known each other for years. No one takes it too seriously and theres no problems around someone saying "what was that? You totally fucked that up! 😜" if someone has.

The women I spoke to feel that he was acting in that vein but, in light of everything else, I dotn think he was. And it was physical and he scared me.

The friendship is over either way.

But that's why I'm unable to act decisively on it. But also why something has to happen.

' I dont know how to not make it sound like "X is picking on me".

I like to think people won't feel that way once they hear about the pushing you in the face. But as you've said, we know how people can trivialize what's effectively male violence, just as they do if they hear a woman's been assaulted etc.

I think you should tell people your side and then try and let go of their opinion of the situation (easier said than done, I know.)

I don't think anyone will break friends with you over it, no-one significant would anyway.

A few people might think you're over reacting or whatever. Their opinion is irrelevant, and even then most of them will probably just shrug to themselves.

What matters is what YOU feel and you have a perfect right to live as you wish, set your boundaries as your wish. Focus on what YOU want to do and just do it, then consider the matter at an end as far as you're concerned.

If that includes trying to get him out of the band, do it- put your case and then leave other people to do what they see fit, after YOU have done what you see fit.

Then move on and focus on trying to enjoy stuff.

I know it feels like a minefield, especially as you've lost friendship groups in the past.:( But it will be ok I promise. Even if one or two people are annoyed, that's no big deal.

I know all this is easier said than done xxx

Best wishes and please let us know how you get on. Hugs xxxxx

Craftycorvid

Thank you.

I fond him quite arrogant at times and there are other things that I'd accept in a friendship but not in a partner.

I don't know if he's attracted to me but he is very good looking and a lot of women fancy him. I don't in the slightest so maybe it has something to do with that?

The comment about a complete random stranger shuddering in disgust when he saw me would certainly fall into negging. For a start, he didn't (the man was in my view the whole time and I'd have seen if he had) but, even if he had, why tell me?

Interestedwoman

Thank you. That was really helpful x

DidILeaveTheGasOn
I agree with you. I said the same (or at least tried to) a few pages back.

I am good with bullies. You are planning on doing way way too much explaining and justifying.

Tell the band leader and everyone else "You've probably noticed X being a right dickhead lately. I've had enough and we've finally fallen out for good. I'll try not to let it affect how we all get along. I love you guys and I love being in this band."

Any pressing for details just say "He is consistently being a dickhead. I am sick of it. No point talking about it. Let's talk about something else. Shall we rehearse now?"

If you get people doing "oh poor him" and "give me the gossip" and "be more nice like a nice lady because ladies must be nice to mean men" shut it down: "I don't care. He's a dick. He can fuck off. I don't want to talk about him. Let's talk about the band and fun stuff instead."

The basic pattern is
(1) declare that you consider him a dick and that you are no longer friends.
(2) do not justify at all what behaviour makes you think he's a dick. You don't like him, that's it.
(3) shut down any drama seeking from others, refuse to engage in any drama seeking from him.
(4) if the others want to gossip then can do it without your input. They've seen him be a dickhead. They'll tear him apart in talk over beers.
(5) have a catchphrase: something like "I don't want to talk about that dickhead." Or "Christ, what a saddo he is." This is your kneejerk response: rehearse it in your head so the words just naturally fall out of your mouth in moments of stress.

Do not defend yourself against silly verbal attacks or meanness through friends. Eye roll. Use your catchphrase. Do not engage. He's like a little brother who is determined to wind you up. Ignore (even though you are seething on the inside).

He'll be out of that band in no time and you'll have two lovely bands to yourself, many more happy times and the pleasure of feeling a little bit taller and stronger having seen off a bully and kept what you value.

I like that advice!

Being a "difficult" woman is liberating. Be difficult. It's great.

I think Towels approach is the best one in these circumstances. You need to really brazen it out.

If he comes near you, "get away from me dickhead"

It will REALLY put him on the back foot and he won't know how to deal with it.

Great stuff- good plan :)

Haha yep, I do like that!

And, tbh, there are enough people who know/have seen enough - although I doubt everyone has noticed him being a dickhead.

But otherwise, I think I like that approach the most and it's one that I think will be best received by the other band members too.

Thanks x

I'm not sure I agree he'll be out of the band in no time, he's not one to 'fail', but it might take the wind out of his sails a bit.

Thanks

The others will turn against him and they'll make him unwelcome. He'll have a massive flounce. He'll make up all kinds of shit about you all when he leaves. It will be hilarious. He'll make you all wonder why you didn't bin him off sooner. That's my prediction.

Dig deep and be utterly brazen! You need to act that he cannot touch you emotionally until
You believe it.

Yeah, I can see the massive flounce and making up all kinds of shit, tbh...

I hope you're right.

It's the approach I'm going to take on Saturday night. There are enough people who know enough.

Good luck. You can do it. If in doubt mutter something like "wanker" and say nothing else.

In the face push scenario, under reacting would be normal for many people. Your reaction was quite normal. It's not because you are broken. Muttering "dickhead" when you realise a reaction is needed can be enough. It can be appropriate after quite a big delay too, even hours. If asked you say "I just processed what an utter wanker was earlier. I think I was in shock. Dickhead."

I think you should speak to your band leader. Tell them everything, but don't dwell on your past abuse - his behaviour is not okay even without a history of abuse. Tell them you're seriously considering leaving the band if he stays.

OP i think you should take notes from @TowelNumber42 suggestions and learn them off by heart before Saturday. They are genius. Practice beforehand if you think it will make you stronger.

Towel has it perfectly. Actually I think I should save this thread because I hadn’t thought of that response and it is the bomb. Own it.

Yes , follow @TowelNumber42 's advice.
That is how you treat bullies and neggers.

Keep it short , simple .
No he said , she said . No he did this , I did that .

Yes, thanks. Out of all the suggestions - many of which I think have been good, I just couldn't see how they'd fit with this particular group of people, I think Towel's approach is the most appropriate.

I feel pre.positive about it all nowntham I have all week. Thank you 😊

Good grief - more positive about it now than I have all week.

What's your favourite swear to describe him? Twat? Cockwomble? Wanker? Knob? Muppet? Nincompoop? Smeg head?

So interested to see how this pans out with this approach, as I have suffered this way but didn't have the balls to face him up in the way suggested. Please do update us on Saturday, genuinely would like to know how it goes

I'll just go with dick, I think.

He's being a dick. Behaving like a dick. Is a dick.