What would you do next? Am I over reacting?

[WhatWouldYouDoNext]

Hi all. This is going to be quite long for clarity. Sorry and thanks for reading.

I have been very close friends with a married man for around 8 years. I'm also friendly with his wife but have a lot more in common with him. It's all above board - our families have holidayed and spent Christmas together, there are no concerns about impropriety.

Around the start of the summer, his behaviour towards me started to change - I feel like he 'argues' with me now for the sake of it (claims to be playing Devil's Advocate but also to hold these views dear, yet has also contradicted himself); has started 'picking' on me - finding fault in what I'm saying; saying things I can only assume are intended to undermine my confidence - things like telling me men have looked at me in 'disgust' or that my 'ego is showing' when I'm simply not being down on myself and that I'm single due to my resting bitch face (joke!). That kind of thing.

We play in a band together. We've gigged a lot over the summer and some of them have included overnight stays and have been a lot of fun so I didn't say anything - not wanting to create an unpleasant atmosphere for the others - and largely dealt with it by ignoring and avoiding but it hasn't made much impact. I did try telling him that his behaviour towards me had changed and I didn't like it but rather than asking what I meant or opening a dialogue, he just said, "I could say the same about you" and shut it down.

A couple of mutual friends suggested he feels threatened by my new friendships within band and is feeling pushed out; that he is jealous because I play a 'higher profile' instrument than he does - not only does this mean that I'm more 'visible' than he is but that if I can't make a gig/left band, I'd have to be replaced whereas he wouldn't. It's been suggested that he is struggling to find his place in the band and that he is trying to be 'blokey' to fit in with the men better - I know that a couple of people find him a bit 'try hard' with a particular persona he has pushed.

I don't disagree with any of that and I think that all of it is relevant. I agree that he has found it socially difficult with them but he really likes them and loves being in the band. I agree that all of those are probably an issue for him. But none of them are my fault or my problem to solve.

However, in the event that I had inadvertently 'pushed him out', at the start of September, I resolved to make more of an effort to spend time with him. Although, the only reason I was spending less time with him was because of how he was behaving towards me.

Nevertheless, I have seen him a few times over the past few weeks and it seemed to all be relatively back to normal. No issues except for maybe a couple of little comments that I didn't like but I wasn't sure if I was just more 'sensitive' to things he was saying now. But there wasn't anything specifically unkind that was directed towards me. So I started to see it as having been resolved.

Anyway, fast forward to a few days ago. We travel to/from band practise together and, at the end of practise, he said it was time to go and he straighted his arm out and put his outstretched hand into my face to push me backwards/aside. I was horrified and stunned. We'd been talking to another man who was visibly shocked by it. I felt humiliated and didn't know how to react.

What I wish I'd done was say, "what the fuck are you doing? Don't you ever fucking touch me like that again!" What I did was try and laugh it off and said to the other man, "he's a bit of a twat, isn't he?" to which my 'friend' laughed and said, "yes I am" but he was behind me and halfway out the door by this point. The other guy just looked a bit shocked and didn't reply.

I had to travel home with him but didn't speak to him and just said I was tired when he asked what the matter was. He was talking about us going out at the weekend so clearly didn't see anything wrong in what he'd done.

I have a long standing history of abuse stemming from childhood and following on to a number of abusive relationships, that still impacts on me now and, coincidentally, the following day, I had a pre-assessment appointment for therapy to deal with this. Which i why I'm not sure if I'm overreacting to this because now I feel I have completely shut down to him. I no longer consider him a friend. I want nothing more to do with him. I don't want to see, speak to, or even be in the same room as him again.

I can deal with the family/friendship side of it - I will just have nothing to do with him but I don't know what to do about band. I don't want to be in practises with him. I don't want to do gigs with him. I don't want to see him in any capacity whatsoever. But I don't see a solution. I could leave but we have several gigs coming up in the next couple of months and I'd be leaving them massively in the shit.

I've since mentioned it to one person in the band who feels that I ought to give it no energy, put it down to being his problem and not let it affect me but I've woken up again thinking about it , feeling angry and with my heart pounding. So I thought I'd bring it here.

What would you do next?

My response to the PA stuff was mainly indignance because he and his wife can be quite PA towards each other and my attitude was very much, "she's his wife, if she chooses to engage with that it's up to her but I'm not and I choose not to."

But this has gone way beyond that for me. In the 8 years I've known him, he's never been like it towards me (that ive noticed before anyway).although he did admit before the summer to ignoring people's boundaries and being a bit manipulative if he thought it was for the best and achieved the desired (all round) outcome.

Omg I'd leave the band! That is totally unacceptable. If they're that bothered about the future gigs they can kick him out instead.

That's the thing, Kenandbarbie, I don't really want to leave. I just don't want to have to spend any time with him.

I don't have any family other than my children and I don't have many friends - for many reasons largely due to issues I have stemming from past abuse.

Band has given me a whole new lease of life; a social life; good friends; amazing opportunities...

No way are you over-reacting. The nasty remarks were bad enough, but this latest thing has crossed a massive line. I'd go with what hellsbells says.

I really think you should tell your band mates about his treatment of you. You absolutely should not have to leave because of HIS disgusting behaviour - you have done nothing wrong. I think you'll find them to be very supportive if you let them know what you've been dealing with. Leaving would reward him and you'd lose something important through no fault of your own.

Have a look at this and other captain awkward advice

captainawkward.com/2019/07/23/1219-my-good-friends-boyfriend-keeps-negging-me/#more-46790

I understand completely why you minimised his behaviour (I do agree with the PP who says women are conditioned to do that to keep the peace). I appreciate you have had past experiences that have made all of this harder for you too.

If it were me, I’d tell him directly that you feel his behaviour towards you lately has been rude, hostile and inappropriate both verbally and physically and you believe the friendship has been impacted by that. Then I’d keep my distance. Stay in the band but don’t have contact with him and don’t travel with him. I wouldn’t bring anyone else into it or make them choose you over him but I wouldn’t leave the band given you enjoy it.

Hopefully he will look at his behaviour and realise he has been incredibly inappropriate, or he might not. But you just put your boundary up and maintain it and try to not let him cause you any more distress than he already has.

Wow, he sounds like a real prick.
Just remember all the weird stuff he has done are all signs of weakness and insecurity.
You have already taken ownership of your past life and are dealing with it.
My advice would be totally honest with all concerned and avoid him as much as you can. When people ask you why just tell them straight up. I would also let your band mates know how you feel about him without going into too much detail.
It’s likely that they already know.

Thank you, Shox

I just skim read it but a few things jumped out: maybe he’s just socially awkward and is trying, badly, to join in the conversation this has definitely been said to me about him.

And I've been asked to consider whether he might be autistic. He isn't- he doesn't do this sort of thing to anyone else that I've seen. I think just wants to boost his own status and is using me to do so.

And I do feel a lot of pressure to just 'deal with it's so as not to upset the applecart. But maybe that pressure is only coming from me. I don't know.

I've messaged a woman in the band to ask if I can go round and speak to her and her husband at some point and get a perspective from someone who knows both of us. Thanks

I think some of them do already know. I'm not sure how 'popular' he is.

The thing is, everyone kind of takes the piss out each other a bit - which is fine and I can give as good as I get in that respect. But what he is doing to me isnt in the same vein.

Having previously been in bands and having encountered people like this I’d strongly recommend you take the initiative. Talk to the other members of the band and tell them you can’t continue while he is a member. You’ll do the gigs coming up but after that one of you has to go.

He’s not going to respond to polite or direct texts and he’ll more than likely use it as ammunition to lay the poison down for you with the rest of the band.

It’s shit that you’ve been put in this position but it looks like you’re going to have to put your foot down. Arseholes like him can create a lot of trouble, and if he gets in first then you won’t be able to stay anyway. If you value you place in the band then you need to line up your allies. Strike while the memory of him pushing you is fresh in the other guy’s mind. The longer it goes on the more he’ll be able to ingratiate himself and undermine you.

You’ve got the upper hand as you’re the more valuable member so you might be able to nip this in the bud and get him out. If you don’t then it’ll be you leaving, and you don’t deserve to be pushed out by his shitty behaviour. If the other band members don’t back you then you know where you stand, don’t you. Don’t put up with it though, you’ll be bloody miserable and angry with yourself if you do.

Good luck.

Just remember all the weird stuff he has done are all signs of weakness and insecurity.

Yes, I know.

I think that is why the woman I have spoken to thinks I need to just let it go; withdraw from him but not make a big deal of it.

I can't quite articulate how much I don't even want to be in the same room as him though

Whatisthisfuckery

Thank you.

You're right, I can't just let it slide. He's massively crossed a boundary - well several recently - and I would just become more angry with myself if I let it go.

I also agree that he is someone who will try akd make life difficult for me if i don't speak up for myself.

It is shit.

It was a terrible thing for him to do. I would hesitate to just touch someone's face, let along push them.

Don't forget that women are socialised to make nice with bullies and abusers. This woman you know who has said to let it go is not giving you good advice, it is just what she has been taught. Posters on here have given better advice. You have your boundaries and he has crossed them. The friendship is over so he has no business saying anything to you now. Keep strong, lovely.

Op, this is an unpleasant situation for you to be in and the man sounds really stupid. I'd cool it a bit with him, don't socialise, just be civil when you see him but if he does anything like pushing you in the face again, give him his what-for! No one has the right to do that. If he makes rude remarks, show how disgusted you are. I think other companions will do the same. Don't let him push you out of the band, you enjoy it and should be part of it.

It's a shame he has changed so much - showing off I suppose - but I doubt anyone is impressed and ultimately he could be loser. Rise above it, you have right on your side.

I think you speak to the other woman and say that, after what he did, there is no way you can stay in the same band as him. So you either leave or you call a band meeting without him or talk to the band leader and give them the choice - you and they fire him or you'll have to leave.

What he did was totally unacceptable and I suspect he did it to drive you out of the band.

WhatWouldYouDoNext Honestly... do not make a kneejerk decision and just leave the Band because of him. You've said how much you enjoy it, and how great it's been for your confidence and why should an arse like this force you out. That's probably what he wants! If you leave, he will've won.

I would make sure every band member knows exactly how he is treating you. I think it's his ego. You're more valuable and needed in the band, and he just cannot stand that.

Basically, what I'm saying is... fight back. Don't give up the band because of him. Every single time he says something rude, come back at him with a phrase
'Do NOT talk to me like that
Don't be so rude
Move out the way, I want nothing to do with you
Do not touch me ever again'
etc etc.
If he does anything in front of other band members, say to them 'did you hear that?' or 'did you see that?'

I think he is showing off. A couple of people have commented previously about him showing off in regards to other friends. In light of that, I did wonder of it was an attempt to lay claim to me as his friend - other people have also said previously they thought he has done that on occasion.

It's really shit because I struggle with friendships anyway due to past trauma and he's my longest standing friend.

cacklingmags

That's it really. I know he would take a dim view of it if he saw any other man doing that to a woman even in jest - for exactly that reason - and he would be apoplectic if he someone did it to him. I feel stupid because he's clearly been pushing my boundaries for a few months now and I've been reluctant to enforce them. He knew I wouldn't react

Don't forget that women are socialised to make nice with bullies and abusers

Yes I know that too the woman I spoke to also knows this. She wasnt impressed when I spoke to her before and I was surprised she didnt seem to think this was a huge problem. I suspect she doesn't want the status quo or harmony disrupted anymore than anyone else would.

I don't think he'll have done it with the express intention of driving me out, but I think he wants to 'put me in my place'.

The timing stands out to me - you posted about DV and shared your experience and 24 hours later he attacks you where you're vulnerable. Physical contact. He knows what he's doing.

Absolutely no way should you leave the bad. He's the one crossing boundaries, he's less important to the band, he's behaving badly. Not you. I would garner some support from your friends in the band, tell them what he's been doing and say you want him gone.

Time to stop protecting and putting up with the bullies.

Maybe you should think about talking to the man who saw him put his hand against your face recently as he sounded like he was quite shocked by his actions. Would you feel confident enough and close enough to him to do this as he has seen him in action.

It has recently dawned on him that you don't fancy him. He didn't necessarily want a relationship with you, but you have dented his male pride and his precious ego, and now he is punishing you for it.

Would you feel confident enough and close enough to him to do this as he has seen him in action.

I don't know. I have thought about it. I'm not sure how I'd go about bringing it up.

I went to see the woman I contacted and her husband this afternoon. They felt I should just talk to him as we've been friends for so long and couldn't believe he'd have done it maliciously.

It wasn't until I told her some of my background and that, when he did it, I felt exactly the same as I have done previously in abusive relationships, and that he also knew, that she really understood how I feel.

I'm not sure I want to have to justify it to people in that way tbh.

cometothinkofit

She actually asked if I was sure he didnt have feelings for me because he was behaving like a jealous lover.

I'm as sure as I can be.

But, whatever is going on, i agree his ego has been injured by it.

Time to stop protecting and putting up with the bullies.

I agree. But it's, sadly, easier said than done when you're in the middle of it and these people are all connected.

I know you're right in everything you say though.