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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What would you do next? Am I over reacting?

370 replies

WhatWouldYouDoNext · 23/10/2019 09:53

Hi all. This is going to be quite long for clarity. Sorry and thanks for reading.

I have been very close friends with a married man for around 8 years. I'm also friendly with his wife but have a lot more in common with him. It's all above board - our families have holidayed and spent Christmas together, there are no concerns about impropriety.

Around the start of the summer, his behaviour towards me started to change - I feel like he 'argues' with me now for the sake of it (claims to be playing Devil's Advocate but also to hold these views dear, yet has also contradicted himself); has started 'picking' on me - finding fault in what I'm saying; saying things I can only assume are intended to undermine my confidence - things like telling me men have looked at me in 'disgust' or that my 'ego is showing' when I'm simply not being down on myself and that I'm single due to my resting bitch face (joke!). That kind of thing.

We play in a band together. We've gigged a lot over the summer and some of them have included overnight stays and have been a lot of fun so I didn't say anything - not wanting to create an unpleasant atmosphere for the others - and largely dealt with it by ignoring and avoiding but it hasn't made much impact. I did try telling him that his behaviour towards me had changed and I didn't like it but rather than asking what I meant or opening a dialogue, he just said, "I could say the same about you" and shut it down.

A couple of mutual friends suggested he feels threatened by my new friendships within band and is feeling pushed out; that he is jealous because I play a 'higher profile' instrument than he does - not only does this mean that I'm more 'visible' than he is but that if I can't make a gig/left band, I'd have to be replaced whereas he wouldn't. It's been suggested that he is struggling to find his place in the band and that he is trying to be 'blokey' to fit in with the men better - I know that a couple of people find him a bit 'try hard' with a particular persona he has pushed.

I don't disagree with any of that and I think that all of it is relevant. I agree that he has found it socially difficult with them but he really likes them and loves being in the band. I agree that all of those are probably an issue for him. But none of them are my fault or my problem to solve.

However, in the event that I had inadvertently 'pushed him out', at the start of September, I resolved to make more of an effort to spend time with him. Although, the only reason I was spending less time with him was because of how he was behaving towards me.

Nevertheless, I have seen him a few times over the past few weeks and it seemed to all be relatively back to normal. No issues except for maybe a couple of little comments that I didn't like but I wasn't sure if I was just more 'sensitive' to things he was saying now. But there wasn't anything specifically unkind that was directed towards me. So I started to see it as having been resolved.

Anyway, fast forward to a few days ago. We travel to/from band practise together and, at the end of practise, he said it was time to go and he straighted his arm out and put his outstretched hand into my face to push me backwards/aside. I was horrified and stunned. We'd been talking to another man who was visibly shocked by it. I felt humiliated and didn't know how to react.

What I wish I'd done was say, "what the fuck are you doing? Don't you ever fucking touch me like that again!" What I did was try and laugh it off and said to the other man, "he's a bit of a twat, isn't he?" to which my 'friend' laughed and said, "yes I am" but he was behind me and halfway out the door by this point. The other guy just looked a bit shocked and didn't reply.

I had to travel home with him but didn't speak to him and just said I was tired when he asked what the matter was. He was talking about us going out at the weekend so clearly didn't see anything wrong in what he'd done.

I have a long standing history of abuse stemming from childhood and following on to a number of abusive relationships, that still impacts on me now and, coincidentally, the following day, I had a pre-assessment appointment for therapy to deal with this. Which i why I'm not sure if I'm overreacting to this because now I feel I have completely shut down to him. I no longer consider him a friend. I want nothing more to do with him. I don't want to see, speak to, or even be in the same room as him again.

I can deal with the family/friendship side of it - I will just have nothing to do with him but I don't know what to do about band. I don't want to be in practises with him. I don't want to do gigs with him. I don't want to see him in any capacity whatsoever. But I don't see a solution. I could leave but we have several gigs coming up in the next couple of months and I'd be leaving them massively in the shit.

I've since mentioned it to one person in the band who feels that I ought to give it no energy, put it down to being his problem and not let it affect me but I've woken up again thinking about it , feeling angry and with my heart pounding. So I thought I'd bring it here.

What would you do next?

OP posts:
TowelNumber42 · 29/10/2019 09:44

I wouldn't be surprised if he went to some trouble to plan going to an early start gig and the wife's visit. Hence the fury when you didn't fall gratefully and desperately into his bed.

WhatWouldYouDoNext · 29/10/2019 09:46

Tbh, I didnt even think of it like that and I'm still not sure it was. I think/thought he wanted to stay up with a mate drinking beer and watching films but it didnt sit right with me and his reaction just made me feel really pleased that I'd said no and it started to feel a bit 'unsafe'.

I didn't want to create a scene 🙄 so I still travelled with him the following day but his attitude towards me was vile.

I think he was just angry with me that I'd stopped him from having the evening he wanted.

OP posts:
WhatWouldYouDoNext · 29/10/2019 09:49

I have no interest in being anyone's OW.

OP posts:
eddielizzard · 29/10/2019 09:54

OMG lucky escape there Shock

RandomMess · 29/10/2019 10:24

Nah I think the evening he wanted involved having sex with you.

UpfieldHatesWomen · 29/10/2019 10:33

Well done for standing up for yourself, OP, I'm glad it's gone well for you. From mine and other female musician friends' experiences, I think a lot of blokes just see being in a band with a woman as an opportunity to try and f her, which is incredibly frustrating when you just want to be in a band for the camaraderie and because it gives you so much back. I had one male friend who I was in a musical project with who I'd never shown any kind of romantic interest in, no flirtation, nothing physical ever happened etc. When I'd suggest going out with others he'd turn it down, and when we'd bump into another male friend in town he'd suddenly become completely standoffish, sitting there with his arms crossed and refusing to speak, making things really uncomfortable. Apparently he had been going around telling people that we were in a relationship! Despite this, he also seemed to think I was a complete idiot, would have digs at me all the time with his other cronies and tell me lies that he thought I wanted to hear. That band project ended up with me leaving because he played the victim to the others (all blokes) and they were all about as pathetic as him so I didn't see the point trying to make it work.
Another time I was trying to form a band and one male friend invited another to join. I wasn't keen and knew he was going to be difficult to work with: he was. He was a sex addict who had also had a problem with drugs and was getting counselling for a possible PD. He couldn't stand the fact that I didn't fancy him. In fact I went on a few dates with one of his friends and that seemed to really tip him over. I don't even think he particularly wanted me, he just wanted ALL women to be in awe of him, and couldn't stand the fact that I wasn't fussed and he couldn't manipulate me through the 'poor me' routine. In band practice if I made a suggestion he would play the victim 'why are you always so mean to me?!' even though I'd only be saying the same thing as other band mates. I sent him a message saying I enjoyed playing with him but if we were going to be in a band together he needed to knock that on the head. Of course, that just made him play the victim and practically shouting at me with all kinds of nasty insults at the next practice we had, at which I walked out and never went back - so another opportunity to play music gone.
Tried to get a band together by putting an ad up. Had a few practices with this one guy. This time my ex-boyfriend told me he had said something like 'when you're finished with her you can pass her onto me' although I don't know for sure if that's true because that ex was also a dick, but it made me uncomfortable and that project fizzled out.
A female musician friend had a duo project with another guy and he eventually started hitting on her even though he was married, so that had to end, and she had been getting so much out of it, such a shame. And they wonder why there are so few women in bands: constant s like this, that's why.
Anyway, I'm routing for you to stay in the band and let that f*cker go. This kind of thing happens far too often and it's almost always the woman that misses out, so do this for all of us and stand your ground!

Innishh · 29/10/2019 10:55

Wow he was either trying to get you into bed or play mind games with his wife and gaslight her that you were there - tallys with the Fri night invite situation. Either way he is using you to hurt is wife. He really is a manipulative bastard.

Well done for telling the BL that - he can read exactly what is going on - and hopefully will be ready to slap him down and kick him out if any “banter” happens. Classic bullying tactics - to wrap it in banter / joke and the victim is just over reacting / has no sense of humour / difficult and sensitive.

But lots of people are aware of these tactics and it is the BL in their position of authority who is responsible for calling it out. If he doesn’t call him on it.

justilou1 · 29/10/2019 11:19

I think my intuition about you being his emotional affair was right...You just didn’t know you were playing. He is such a prick.

StroppyWoman · 29/10/2019 11:46

Well done, OP! You must feel a weight has been lifted now you’ve addressed this head on.

Towel, can I have you on speed dial for the difficulties in my life? Ace advice.

TowelNumber42 · 29/10/2019 12:10

Men don't get that angry over missing some beer and banter.

TarMcAdam · 29/10/2019 12:24

It is a truth universally acknowledged (belueved) among many men that a single woman is utterly desperate for both cock and attention. It is an impossibility that she is not.

Sounds like you've fallen foul of that belief.

Btw his physical action toward you was pure ape dominance in action, he deserved such a kick in the bollicks - but I'd be exactly like you, would be in shock and by the time I'd reacted it would feel too late and it would be so difficult to tackle.

He is an utter utter wanker, his poor do.

TarMcAdam · 29/10/2019 12:25

*dp

UpfieldHatesWomen · 29/10/2019 12:48

It is a truth universally acknowledged (belueved) among many men that a single woman is utterly desperate for both cock and attention. It is an impossibility that she is not.

Totally agree with this, and they're filled with rage when you show you're not the slightest bit interested.

billy1966 · 29/10/2019 12:55

Ah OP,

Sure that's it.
You didn't play ball and fall in with his little fantasy!

His huge ego was hurt.

Some men cannot be rejected, no matter how gently.

He is a nasty piece of work.

His poor wife, I bet she has a dogs life with him.

Ugh!

Butterymuffin · 29/10/2019 13:52

What an educational thread on dealing with male entitlement! Great that you've got this under control now OP. @TowelNumber42, I'm in awe!

WhatWouldYouDoNext · 29/10/2019 14:48

Definitely some interesting thoughts here!

justilou1

I was almost a bit offended when you first suggested the emotional affair thing but, tbh, I think you were right and I was just oblivious to it! I really just saw him as my best friend.

Over the past couple of years, I've come to think that his wife doesn't actually like him very much - I can see why that might be now Sad

I've been single for a long time now and, tbf, a bit of cock would be nice! 🤣 but not one that is attached to a married man!

Standing up for myself was so empowering though - finally feel like things are moving in the right direction. Will be interesting to see what happens the next time he's there.

OP posts:
timeisnotaline · 29/10/2019 15:46

Men don't get that angry over missing some beer and banter.
Controlling angry men lose their shit because their coffee is the wrong temperature.

WhatWouldYouDoNext · 29/10/2019 15:53

That is also true...

OP posts:
TowelNumber42 · 29/10/2019 16:14

Good point time but usually only with women they think they own.

WhatWouldYouDoNext · 29/10/2019 16:26

Good pointtimebut usually only with women they think they own.

That does seem to be how he felt about me though. That I was his friend.

OP posts:
TowelNumber42 · 29/10/2019 16:29

Oh no I am doing that thing of making it all about the menz feelz. It doesn't matter why. He has been a dick. He can fuck off. Anyone else who is a dick in future can fuck off too.

RandomMess · 29/10/2019 16:47

Towel

😂😂😂😂😂😂

NettleTea · 29/10/2019 18:57

Probably the kind of man who thinks a single woman is always on the look out for a bit, and was making sure that HE was the only one to get a crack at it.

UpfieldHatesWomen · 29/10/2019 19:22

If you're over thirty and single they not only assume that you're gagging for it, but also that you are absolutely desperate to have their babies.

Bluerussian · 30/10/2019 00:15

WhatWouldYouDoNext:

His wife had taken the children away for the weekend this all started. We had an early start in the morning to get to the gig and he wanted me to stop overnight at his to get an early start. I said I didn't think it was appropriate and told him I wasn't going to stay when his wife wasn't there. He didn't take it well. That's what started this whole thing. He was angry with me that I'd enforced my boundary and set out to punish me for doing so.

I hadn't intended to tell BL that, because it makes him sound so bad, but then thought "fuck it, if I'm asking him for support, he actually needs to know exactly what has been going on".
........
That is excellent, I am in awe of you for handling this in such a sensible manner, I'm not sure I would have been able to when I was younger; I'd have probably procrastinated endlessly whilst feeling awful about what was happening.

Well done you!

FlowersWine

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