What would you do next? Am I over reacting?

[WhatWouldYouDoNext]

Hi all. This is going to be quite long for clarity. Sorry and thanks for reading.

I have been very close friends with a married man for around 8 years. I'm also friendly with his wife but have a lot more in common with him. It's all above board - our families have holidayed and spent Christmas together, there are no concerns about impropriety.

Around the start of the summer, his behaviour towards me started to change - I feel like he 'argues' with me now for the sake of it (claims to be playing Devil's Advocate but also to hold these views dear, yet has also contradicted himself); has started 'picking' on me - finding fault in what I'm saying; saying things I can only assume are intended to undermine my confidence - things like telling me men have looked at me in 'disgust' or that my 'ego is showing' when I'm simply not being down on myself and that I'm single due to my resting bitch face (joke!). That kind of thing.

We play in a band together. We've gigged a lot over the summer and some of them have included overnight stays and have been a lot of fun so I didn't say anything - not wanting to create an unpleasant atmosphere for the others - and largely dealt with it by ignoring and avoiding but it hasn't made much impact. I did try telling him that his behaviour towards me had changed and I didn't like it but rather than asking what I meant or opening a dialogue, he just said, "I could say the same about you" and shut it down.

A couple of mutual friends suggested he feels threatened by my new friendships within band and is feeling pushed out; that he is jealous because I play a 'higher profile' instrument than he does - not only does this mean that I'm more 'visible' than he is but that if I can't make a gig/left band, I'd have to be replaced whereas he wouldn't. It's been suggested that he is struggling to find his place in the band and that he is trying to be 'blokey' to fit in with the men better - I know that a couple of people find him a bit 'try hard' with a particular persona he has pushed.

I don't disagree with any of that and I think that all of it is relevant. I agree that he has found it socially difficult with them but he really likes them and loves being in the band. I agree that all of those are probably an issue for him. But none of them are my fault or my problem to solve.

However, in the event that I had inadvertently 'pushed him out', at the start of September, I resolved to make more of an effort to spend time with him. Although, the only reason I was spending less time with him was because of how he was behaving towards me.

Nevertheless, I have seen him a few times over the past few weeks and it seemed to all be relatively back to normal. No issues except for maybe a couple of little comments that I didn't like but I wasn't sure if I was just more 'sensitive' to things he was saying now. But there wasn't anything specifically unkind that was directed towards me. So I started to see it as having been resolved.

Anyway, fast forward to a few days ago. We travel to/from band practise together and, at the end of practise, he said it was time to go and he straighted his arm out and put his outstretched hand into my face to push me backwards/aside. I was horrified and stunned. We'd been talking to another man who was visibly shocked by it. I felt humiliated and didn't know how to react.

What I wish I'd done was say, "what the fuck are you doing? Don't you ever fucking touch me like that again!" What I did was try and laugh it off and said to the other man, "he's a bit of a twat, isn't he?" to which my 'friend' laughed and said, "yes I am" but he was behind me and halfway out the door by this point. The other guy just looked a bit shocked and didn't reply.

I had to travel home with him but didn't speak to him and just said I was tired when he asked what the matter was. He was talking about us going out at the weekend so clearly didn't see anything wrong in what he'd done.

I have a long standing history of abuse stemming from childhood and following on to a number of abusive relationships, that still impacts on me now and, coincidentally, the following day, I had a pre-assessment appointment for therapy to deal with this. Which i why I'm not sure if I'm overreacting to this because now I feel I have completely shut down to him. I no longer consider him a friend. I want nothing more to do with him. I don't want to see, speak to, or even be in the same room as him again.

I can deal with the family/friendship side of it - I will just have nothing to do with him but I don't know what to do about band. I don't want to be in practises with him. I don't want to do gigs with him. I don't want to see him in any capacity whatsoever. But I don't see a solution. I could leave but we have several gigs coming up in the next couple of months and I'd be leaving them massively in the shit.

I've since mentioned it to one person in the band who feels that I ought to give it no energy, put it down to being his problem and not let it affect me but I've woken up again thinking about it , feeling angry and with my heart pounding. So I thought I'd bring it here.

What would you do next?

Just delurking to say that my blood ran cold when I read your account of what happened, and I’m rooting for you OP 💪🏼

Thanks for your messages. For those who say I'm seeking too much validation, I know. I am aware of it but I have explained why. I get that not everyone is like this and I understand why I shouldn't feel the need to do it. But I do and it's one of the things I'm going to address when the therapy starts.

No, I didnt reply to his message saying he hoped I'd had a good night but he messaged me again yesterday evening just saying he hoped I'd had a good weekend and telling me something he was doing.

I know what he is doing by that. Whenever I'm having a tough time mentally, I tend to withdraw and not engage and he sends these 'not expecting a reply' messages as a way of letting me know he understands and is still there without expectation. You know, the way people are told to do when their friends are going through a rough patch.

So this morning I sent him this:

I told you over the summer that your behaviour towards me had changed and I didn't like it and last week, you put your hand in my face and pushed me aside. I don't know what is going on for you at the moment but this is unacceptable to me in a friendship.

I'm sure some people will feel it's still too much but it's appropriate in the context of the friendship we had; it's unemotional and lays the responsibility for it at his feet.

Ot not enough... 🙄

Whilst I would have texted him after speaking to the band leader, I think that text is good. You also have now told him in writing that pushed your face and that you find it unacceptable.

He will try and minimise what he did. I think you need to be prepared to tell him clearly that the friendship is over and that you don't want him to contact you again.

Please do speak to the band leader today before he gets to him first.

For those saying I should just ghost him, I can't. I'm going to be in a small room with him with a small group of people in 12 hours time.

Your message is fine, it tells him his wrong doings and let’s him know that you’re not going to put up with this. It will be interesting his response, I reckon he’ll minimise (maybe without even apologising). You’re in a horrible situation but you are doing great at getting through this.

Here comes a litany of justification, gaslighting and blame. Be prepared.

Thanks. I don't anticipate an apology.

I anticipate him telling me last week was a joke and him rewriting himself as the victim of me 'ignoring' him and rejecting him in favour of my 'new friends'.

The irony is that I've only become close friends with some of the other band members because I chose to spend less time with him because of the way he was behaving towards me. And the people I've spoken to are quite clear on that.

It was that first weekend away when his verbal behaviour towards me was vile that I chose to spend more time with them and I've become really close to a couple of them - so there is a silver lining to all of this I guess!

The bottom line is that even if the face push was a misjudged attempted to be more 'blokey' and intended to be 'friendly', the other stuff preceeding it was bad enough on its own.

But the one man in band I've told said he thought that was a 'claiming territory' thing - a way of demonstrating to others that he could behave like that with me because of how close we are. He said he felt in a was a "this is my friend" move.

But I'm am adult and I get to choose my own friends.

In that case maybe go for a flat-line style of interaction for now?
If you have to be in the same place regularly you maybe need to give yourself the permission to wind it down gently so you don't feel awkward.

So no big smiles (practise the just-enough smile to hide behind, it kind of looks like a smile but shouldn't feel forced), no asking him questions, no car sharing...and if he asks why "I don't want to talk about that" (in a bored tone of voice, not sad, just toned down so he doesn't get the feeling you're that bothered).

If he asks to speak to you on your own or talk about it, in the same bored voice say something like "no point really, I'd just rather not be friends for now" while inside feeling free to make that "ever again". You don't owe him an explanation. If he keeps pushing just say you "said it all" in your text.

The key is to tone down the emotional intensity to boredom levels. Starve him of your feelings concerning him or his behaviour. I love Towel's advice for how to talk about him in the group. Let people come to realise you've gone off him.

Inwardly though the guilt and anger might need to be dealt with as they sound like they're holding you back.

Therapy is a good idea but in the meantime maybe have a kind word with yourself about that. It's not your fault people didn't respect or teach you about healthy boundaries when you were young. Time to be gentle but firm with yourself. None of the guilt and shame are yours why should you have to carry it? It's good that he's made you angry but I think you should be the one to benefit from that to protect yourself.

It wouldn't matter if he'd saved your life by climbing into a crocodile's mouth: it's still NOT OK. And you would still have the right to walk away.

How about in a bored tone

"You've been a complete dick, for months your behaviour towards me has been unacceptable and I have told you this. I choose my own friends there is nothing to discuss"

ClanGreyRock

Thanks.

I'm actually already 'no contact' with my mum because her verbal/emotional abuse continued well into my adulthood. I cut out two friends earlier this year and haven't seen/spoken to either of them since because I realised my friendships with them weren't healthy. So it's not that I'm unable or unwilling to do it, more that this feels a bit more difficult because of our long history of friendship and how many positives we've brought to each other's lives over the years. I am aware of his history/lifestory too and know how much my friendship has meant to him. But it has changed now. And it's sad to feel that I don't have any long standing friendships now.

The fact I'll still have to see him weekly is the other difficulty. Otherwise, I'd have no problem in taking the approach many people have suggested.

I will follow Towel's suggestion when it comes to other members of the band though.

Yeah, that's probably the sort of thing I'd say if pushed, Random. I'm not planning on responding to him now. I wont engage in a text conversation with him. As others have said, he knows what he's been doing, even if it has come from a place of fear and insecurity.

My personal feeling is that all abusive behaviours are rooted in fear and insecurity but that doesn't make it the "victim's" problem to accept or manage.

Sorry for the multiple posts I'm feeling a bit anxious having sent that message 🙄

I was meaning if he tries to talk to you at practice.

Just to be clear OP, I never for a second got the impression you were unwilling or unable to cut contact.

I know how it feels when there's all the history and complicated ties that make these situations so uncomfortable.

Truly my suggestions are just for riding it out and toning things down. Just so you can withdraw from him while still being part of the band and social circle.

I tend to read my anxiety now as a message about how unfriendly a friendship has become. And try to stop at that message instead of feeling bad for feeling bad IYSWIM.

It's a headfuck no doubt about it and I really get how people like that make you feel stuck. Small steps eh?

He replied. Predictably, he said the face push was a joke but he understood. And he did throw it back onto me 🙄 said I was treating I'm as a 'side friend' now I'd got new people to hang out with. He said I always do it - I don't, but what I do do, if I make new friends is hang out with them too. I did try and include him before all this started and I'd just started going out with them socially on occasion but there was always a reason why he couldn't come and he sulked. I felt he was pissed off with me spending time with other people because he would suggest alternatives like we went somewhere on our own instead or agree to go and then suggest something else (with just the two of us) at the last minute and was pissed off when I stuck to my original plan and said he was free to join me or not.

There was another occasion when he wanted us to do something together and I said I'd think about it. When I thought about it, I decided it wasn't appropriate and told him i wouldn't be doing it. He then implied I'd been influenced by my 'new friends' rather than doing what I wanted/we had arranged. We hadn't arranged anything, I'd said it was a possibility and I'd get back to him. This was the night before that first weekend when it all started so I think that is what triggered it.

These 'new friends' comprised entirely of the people I met through band and have known for exactly as long as he has.

He said he'd be friendly when he sees me but won't make any effort to hang out. No awareness that the only reason I am hanging out with new friends is because of the way he's behaving towards me.

I just replied and said I'd do the same. He's away on holiday this week so he won't be there tonight.

Thanks for all your support and advice

RandomMess

Sorry, yes I got that, I just went off on
a bit of a tangent!

I tend to read my anxiety now as a message about how unfriendly a friendship has become. And try to stop at that message instead of feeling bad for feeling bad IYSWIM.

Wise words. Thank you x

Awwww little man having a toddler tantrum 😂

Interesting that he wanted you on your own.... I still think he wanted the whole “emotional affair” with you even if you were unaware.

Oh and he accused me of half making plans and then cancelling them.

That confused me a bit but what he was referring to was a Friday night when he'd invited me over for the evening after a week at work. I agreed but he refused to tell his wife when I checked she was ok with it. He'd done that before but I hadn't realised she didnt know I was going until she looked surprised to see me on the doorstep.

He said he was entitled to invite friends over, I said it was courteous to run it by his wife first in case she didnt want someone else around after a week at work. He still refused so I said I wouldn't go then.

She'd have been fine with me but I didn't want to be a pawn in his passive aggressive nonsense with her. These are the kind of things he was pissed off with me about.

justilou1

Maybe you're right

He really isn't very nice is he!

You refuse to game play and he is fuming and desperate to put you in your place.

You are well rid, sounds like a complete user...

Face push was a joke? What exactly was supposed to be funny about it? He's fucked in the head. I'd stay well away from him and stop engaging with his 'but you did this'. Who cares what he's upset about.