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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What would you do next? Am I over reacting?

370 replies

WhatWouldYouDoNext · 23/10/2019 09:53

Hi all. This is going to be quite long for clarity. Sorry and thanks for reading.

I have been very close friends with a married man for around 8 years. I'm also friendly with his wife but have a lot more in common with him. It's all above board - our families have holidayed and spent Christmas together, there are no concerns about impropriety.

Around the start of the summer, his behaviour towards me started to change - I feel like he 'argues' with me now for the sake of it (claims to be playing Devil's Advocate but also to hold these views dear, yet has also contradicted himself); has started 'picking' on me - finding fault in what I'm saying; saying things I can only assume are intended to undermine my confidence - things like telling me men have looked at me in 'disgust' or that my 'ego is showing' when I'm simply not being down on myself and that I'm single due to my resting bitch face (joke!). That kind of thing.

We play in a band together. We've gigged a lot over the summer and some of them have included overnight stays and have been a lot of fun so I didn't say anything - not wanting to create an unpleasant atmosphere for the others - and largely dealt with it by ignoring and avoiding but it hasn't made much impact. I did try telling him that his behaviour towards me had changed and I didn't like it but rather than asking what I meant or opening a dialogue, he just said, "I could say the same about you" and shut it down.

A couple of mutual friends suggested he feels threatened by my new friendships within band and is feeling pushed out; that he is jealous because I play a 'higher profile' instrument than he does - not only does this mean that I'm more 'visible' than he is but that if I can't make a gig/left band, I'd have to be replaced whereas he wouldn't. It's been suggested that he is struggling to find his place in the band and that he is trying to be 'blokey' to fit in with the men better - I know that a couple of people find him a bit 'try hard' with a particular persona he has pushed.

I don't disagree with any of that and I think that all of it is relevant. I agree that he has found it socially difficult with them but he really likes them and loves being in the band. I agree that all of those are probably an issue for him. But none of them are my fault or my problem to solve.

However, in the event that I had inadvertently 'pushed him out', at the start of September, I resolved to make more of an effort to spend time with him. Although, the only reason I was spending less time with him was because of how he was behaving towards me.

Nevertheless, I have seen him a few times over the past few weeks and it seemed to all be relatively back to normal. No issues except for maybe a couple of little comments that I didn't like but I wasn't sure if I was just more 'sensitive' to things he was saying now. But there wasn't anything specifically unkind that was directed towards me. So I started to see it as having been resolved.

Anyway, fast forward to a few days ago. We travel to/from band practise together and, at the end of practise, he said it was time to go and he straighted his arm out and put his outstretched hand into my face to push me backwards/aside. I was horrified and stunned. We'd been talking to another man who was visibly shocked by it. I felt humiliated and didn't know how to react.

What I wish I'd done was say, "what the fuck are you doing? Don't you ever fucking touch me like that again!" What I did was try and laugh it off and said to the other man, "he's a bit of a twat, isn't he?" to which my 'friend' laughed and said, "yes I am" but he was behind me and halfway out the door by this point. The other guy just looked a bit shocked and didn't reply.

I had to travel home with him but didn't speak to him and just said I was tired when he asked what the matter was. He was talking about us going out at the weekend so clearly didn't see anything wrong in what he'd done.

I have a long standing history of abuse stemming from childhood and following on to a number of abusive relationships, that still impacts on me now and, coincidentally, the following day, I had a pre-assessment appointment for therapy to deal with this. Which i why I'm not sure if I'm overreacting to this because now I feel I have completely shut down to him. I no longer consider him a friend. I want nothing more to do with him. I don't want to see, speak to, or even be in the same room as him again.

I can deal with the family/friendship side of it - I will just have nothing to do with him but I don't know what to do about band. I don't want to be in practises with him. I don't want to do gigs with him. I don't want to see him in any capacity whatsoever. But I don't see a solution. I could leave but we have several gigs coming up in the next couple of months and I'd be leaving them massively in the shit.

I've since mentioned it to one person in the band who feels that I ought to give it no energy, put it down to being his problem and not let it affect me but I've woken up again thinking about it , feeling angry and with my heart pounding. So I thought I'd bring it here.

What would you do next?

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 28/10/2019 18:25

Very convenient that ex-friend isn't there tonight!
Hope you managed to talk to the band leader and it went ok.

InvisibleWomenMustBeRead · 28/10/2019 19:12

Good luck Op!

billy1966 · 28/10/2019 19:44

Towel42's approach is wise but you can definitely tweek it a little.

In essence she is advising that you are firm but not dramatic.

You want to get across that he has majorly fucked up and you are NOT having it.

He's a dick as everyone knows, but you are NOT tolerating it.

But there is No drama in you being clear, that you are NOT having it.

The narrative that you are creating is that you are calmly assertive and won't be pushed around by this idiot.

(Hope I am paraphrasing correctly @Towel42)👍

The Band Leader needs to be fully put in the picture.

justilou1 · 28/10/2019 20:40

Maybe now OP’s made it clear that there’s nothing in it for him, he’s moved on and will slink off elsewhere.... (probably not, but here’s hoping....)

BendyLikeBeckham · 28/10/2019 22:14

OP, I could see from your very first post what the issue here is. Some PP have mentioned too. This man has as clear as day got feelings for you. He might as well be pulling your pigtails in class. He is still however an immature, selfish and stupid arsehole. And you are absolutely right to draw boundaries that you feel comfortable with. Your past background is irrelevant and I wouldn't explain any of that to anyone else because it muddies the water. His behaviour is dickish, full stop. And would be considered unacceptable to any decent person, regardless of any particular history, vulnerability, or sensitivity. You don't want to suggest a narrative to your mutual friends that you are oversensitive, overreacting, or damaged and therefore easily offended, because he will exploit that. Stop second guessing your instincts because they are spot on. Plenty of PP have validated those for you.

I would be minded to draw your recent little text convo and your friendship to an end by simply applying the Dick Method to him. Tell him he has been a dick lately and you can't be friends because of that. No more detail, no explanation, no justification, that is all. Don't get drawn into this, that, the other etc where he will try and argue, wheedle, threaten, beg, insult, etc.

He may turn it around, genuinely apologise and stop behaving like a dick and you can reassess in time, or he will ramp up the dickishness because his ego can't handle the rejection, in which case you go grey rock and he will likely be ostracised from the group because it can't be hidden. Other option is, he just leaves you alone and you coexist in the band while pursuing different friendships there, or one of you drifts away.

Anyway, please stop trying to understand him and explain and examine every minute detail. It's blindingly obvious. But how you deal with it now determines what happens going forward. Take control of the situation. Apply the Dick Method to all convos with or about him.

WhatWouldYouDoNext · 28/10/2019 23:00

Hi all. Well I went to band practise and spoke to the leader. He was not impressed. He got all of it.

I ended up telling him a couple of details I'd decided not to mention because they put ex friend in such a poor light - but ended up doing so anyway.

He got it all. He asked if he'd been drinking because he'd already spotted he could be a dick when he'd had a drink.

I'm so pleased I spoke to him.

He said he thinks I've really blossomed over the past few months and doesn't think it's a coincidence at all that he's turned on me. He listened to me waffle and I ended up giving detail after all despite Towel's excellent advice.

He said if I ever need to speak to anyone about anything, I can give him a call and that they absolutely would not want me to leave.

So pleased I said something. He raised his eyebrows at the face push and completely understood why I now feel scared.

He's just messaged to check I'm ok and said I'm not to worry we'll all get through this together.

I bloody love him 🤣

OP posts:
cstaff · 28/10/2019 23:19

Ah OP I'm delighted to hear that. It must be such a relief to know they have your back and also that he will be kept an eye on from now on. Flowers

Innishh · 29/10/2019 00:10

Well done that’s a really brave step you have taken. You have gone to the correct person who is relevant, can be objective and take action if required. No point bringing it up with the others - that was just “canvassing opinion” - but you don’t need others opinion or validation - YOUR feelings are real and deep and valid - now you have taken a really important behavioural shift by “taking decisive action” by speaking with the band leader.

I think that he has mired you in FOG - fear, obligation and guilt around your friendship with him. That is why you are confused - FOG is disorientating and each element is an irrational, irrelevant external pressure to meet another’s needs. They are not your real needs. No one should ever take decisions, change their behaviour or live their life on FOG rules. Your gut was telling you this.

He is a fucking mad controlling creep - asking you over and not telling his wife is v nasty (to you both).

There are very many slights, insults and boundaries crossed here escalating and culminating in the final physical assault - which of course he said was a “joke” - classic bully tactic.

You are clearly evolving emotionally right now as you have already cut 2 toxic people from your life - this assertive growth would unsettle someone like him. Well done on your simple text to him and bringing it to the attention of the band leader. Do not respond to the physically and emotionally abusive dick head ever again. Block his number. Look right through him. Drop the rope and do not engage.

You handled it all perfectly to date - only learning would be next time don’t get paralysed by FOG or seek opinions of others - tune into your own discomfort, listen to it carefully - respect its truth and act much sooner.

Cut out these toxic people and their games which hurt, confuse and preoccupy you - then fill that void with the fun simple sunshiny people !!

Lowbrow · 29/10/2019 00:38

I felt relief reading your last post OP. Good outcome!

Interestedwoman · 29/10/2019 00:59

Glad it went ok. Well done. xxxxx

FinnBalorsAbs · 29/10/2019 06:22

So happy to hear Band Leader was so good!

justilou1 · 29/10/2019 06:49

Wow!!! I AM SO VERY PROUD OF YOU!!! I know from experience how very hard it is to speak up for yourself and ask for help when you have been raised in an abusive situation. (I was too.) You did a very brave thing and have just claimed your stake!!! YOU GO GIRL!!!

Mrsmummy90 · 29/10/2019 07:00

I'd hold a band meeting (without him) and explain to them that you want to leave due to his abusive behaviour toward you. If you have a more important role in the band, chances are he'll be the one getting kicked out of it.

Mrsmummy90 · 29/10/2019 07:14

Sorry I hadn't read your update! So glad you spoke to him.
Well done!!

FranneKipankinstein · 29/10/2019 07:36

Brilliant news@WhatWouldYouDoNext !

AnotherEmma · 29/10/2019 07:41

Glad the band leader was so supportive, brilliant outcome! Smile

LL83 · 29/10/2019 07:54

Great message to ex friend I understand why you sent it. Glad all went well telling band leader. Onwards and upwards.

AgathaF · 29/10/2019 08:11

I've just read through this whole thread. Awful behaviour from him. I'm so glad that you've taken the steps you have, and especially that you had the opportunity to speak to the BL last night and that his reaction was appropriate.

Hopefully that's the end of it, but if not, it sounds like you have people in your corner.

RandomMess · 29/10/2019 08:15

Hurrah that the BL has a great dick alert radar of his own and that he will support you.

Onwards and upwards

billy1966 · 29/10/2019 08:21

Delighted for you.
Have a good day💐

TowelNumber42 · 29/10/2019 08:37

You prepared in advance, read the conditions on the ground at the time, and got a great result with the band leader. Excellent. Sounds like you are indeed blossoming. Success breeds success. Hooray!

InvisibleWomenMustBeRead · 29/10/2019 09:12

Well done Op, that's great the band leader was so supportive! xx

InvisibleWomenMustBeRead · 29/10/2019 09:13

Sorry for the very un-Mumsnetty xx - got a bit carried away being so happy for you Blush

WhatWouldYouDoNext · 29/10/2019 09:27

Thanks so much everyone. Honestly. This place is great for impartiality!

I agree actually about the FOG. Ther have been times I could recognise it and times when I couldn't. I'm going to tell you what the thing was he wanted me to do that I didn't that triggered this whole thing.

His wife had taken the children away for the weekend this all started. We had an early start in the morning to get to the gig and he wanted me to stop overnight at his to get an early start. I said I didnt think it was appropriate and told him I wasnt going to stay when his wife wasnt there. He didnt take it well. That's what started this whole thing. He was angry with me that I'd enforced my boundary and set out to punish me for doing so.

I hadn't intended to tell BL that, because it makes him sound so bad, but then thought "fuck it, if I'm asking him for support, he actually needs to know exactly what has been going on".

He was predictably shocked and wholeheartedly agreed that it was inappropriate.

Hopefully it wont need to be mentioned again. I said I didn't think ex friend would do/say anything in front of others but, if he made any comments, they weren't to be taken as 'friendly banter' because they wouldnt be. He got it.

OP posts:
ContessaLovesTheSunshine · 29/10/2019 09:40

Shock wow. He is REALLY pissed off that you weren't up for an affair, OP! Very well done on boundary enforcement.