How do you even begin to like/trust men

[EternallyUntrusting]

I'm 36 years old. I can hand on my heart say I don't like men. There are some men I have respect for at work (they are good at their jobs), but I don't like men.

If you knew me in real life you would think the absolute opposite. I dress 'for the male gaze', I outgoing, chatty, flirty, very confident. But to a man, I cannot stand the fuckers.

Every significant man since I was a child has turned out to be an utter cunt. My father beat and abused my mother and us. My first husband (lovely man to all and sundry), cheated on me and left me with 3 small children. I was single for a long time then. Lots of therapy, very angry with men and therapy seemed to consist of 'they aren't all the same, you are seeking out these men, good men exist'. My male therapist then fucking messaged me when he was drunk!

I then met a lovely man. Kind, successful, no drug problem, no criminal record. Promised me the absolute earth, my DC fell in love with him, when our DD was 9 mths old he walked out the door and I haven't seen him since (4 years ago).

Since then i've pretty much gone off my rocker. I am aware of how i am acting. I've actively sought out men to prove my theory that given long enough, given enough opportunity and the promise of it never getting out every single one of those fuckers will cheat on their wives/girlfriends or at least cross a line they shouldn't be crossing.

And I hate them for it. Even today, stood at the train station sheltering from the rain, a man about 20 years older than me starts a conversation about the brexit vote. Perfectly pleasant 10 min conversation. Then asks me for a drink. You sure your wife won't mind? He was wearing a fucking wedding ring!!

The same on here thread after thread after thread of 'lovely family men' cheating, using women for wife work, hiding from putting their kids to bed and just nasty useless cocklodgers.

Am I going to hate men for the rest of my life? Even now I've tried to stop proving to myself what wankers they are they seem to go out of their way to prove it to me!

I’ve been thinking about this a lot and keep having further ideas. I think the accumulation of independent wealth is extremely helpful; it’s basically my focus now. To provide myself with the best possible life, the greatest amount of security, and (if i ever need it) a damn good lawyer. It’s no surprise that men HATE independently wealthy women. They hate it because it gives women power.

I think the cheating, the avoidance of childcare and housework and caring responsibilities eg for elderly parents, is down to the fact that men are generally inherently more selfish than women. It’s biological. Having said that I do know some very selfish women!

I used to be a smug married and used to trust men - then I found texts - and my experience as a divorced woman made me realise that many many married men are absolute shits and are constantly out for what they can get away with. At work. On nights out. Online.

I don’t many women who haven’t suffered some sort of sexual abuse or harassment during their lives. Not bad enough to report, but unacceptable behaviour.

Then there’s the lying male politicians, the bankers, the incompetent but arrogant bosses, the misogynists, the disaster capitalists.

The more I think about it the more disgusted I am.

But I do have a good relationship with a very lovely man. I do trust him for now - but I’m not expecting it to last forever, and I won’t give any more than him to the relationship. I will enjoy the bits I like but keep slightly at arms length, and keep a strong female friendship circle.

75Renarde

I'm not at all. I just can't understand how you can be married to someone that you don't trust for 20 years. How do you live with that constant fear for 20 years? Isn't it healthier to leave and live without that constant mistrust?

As for the partner - how does that feel if you are completely innocent? To have 20 years of being doubted by your partner.

Thank you for your useful input tequila. I'm well aware of how fucked up it is.

If you knew a fraction of my life i still doubt you could empathise

And as for my partner part of me thinks he must be a saint to put up with this for 20yrs.The other part thinks he probably puts up with it because he knows it's true.

So glad there are others who feel the same as I do.. I was starting to think I was odd!!
I enjoy male attention (not that I get much now at age 45) but I'm in on POF & Tinder & get a kick out of likes & messages but rarely reply & just roll my eyes at the majority of them! I'm pretty sure I've not intention of meeting any of them for a date. On the rare occasion I get a run of messages with the same man they only have to say something little & insignificant & it puts me off.. anything the slightest sexual or complimentary & I switch off.. can't deal with someone finding me attractive or sexy when I dislike myself so much.
I'd say for the most part I'm happy single but then there's times I would like to be in a relationship, & if I could skip the dating, getting to know & trust someone then I'd be up for it.. just can't deal with the before part! I think men are so unfeeling & complicated I just don't get them!!

Oh lots to say!

First off thank you to @SonataDentata for shouting out my blog! The first time thats happened! 💛 Big love!

@TequilaPilates

You raise a very good point. How can abuse go in for so long? A very reasonable question.

It's because when women rock up and say, OMG. I've been married for (usually over decade) x years. I did not know him.

Those women have tangled with a Greater. A NPD sufferer who is aware he has NPD. Time is everything. When you get very long lasting relationships which on reflection are abusive, they are Greaters. My 18 years is nothing to my mums 50 years.

These kind of relationships are incredibly rare but they do exist.

This is probably what we have here.

SignedUpJust4This

I don't know what's happened in your life.

I do think it's better to remain single if you're going to not trust your partner for 20 + years though, especially if they have done nothing to arouse suspicion.

@TequilaPilates

Read my post again.

I think it all comes down to sex really. Men are capable of having sex with a woman they barely know, then they come home wives and partners and will happily have sex with them. The romance thing is given to women so literally she doesn’t think about this. As you get older, it’s hard to ignore this reality. Women are cheated.

The point when you detach is liberating. Expect little of them. Whatever happens is a bonus. It’s interesting when you do this. I find men have largely treated me far better ever since. I can only assume it’s an ego thing.

Luckily I enjoy the company of women and they are just more generous in spirit overall.

For those who have faced terrible things at the hands of men, I bet there were also men involved in helping to pick up the pieces. The Police Officers who protect you, and are deeply committed to bringing rapists, abusers, and violent offenders to justice are 70% male (source: ONS)... The Judges who administer the criminal justice system to ensure the streets are safe from offenders are 68% male (source:judiciary.uk)

1.7% of reported rapes end in prosecution

75Renarde

I read your post about 10 times and frankly, couldn't understand it.

I think the gist is that it's the man's fault and he is in some way abusing his partner??

I'm really not sure you can say this categorically. Can you diagnose a personality disorder over the internet?

He could be a completely innocent person who has lived for 20 years being treated like this.

He probably is innocent. I will never know. Dont all women say 'it came as a complete surprise'?

He does know what ive been through though and it explains although does not excuse some of my behaviour.

Despite things I've been through i still want a family and a life and he wants these things too. This is why we've stayed together so long probably. But i do stay detached (as pp suggested) and i keep my career, social and financial independence as much as possible and dont allow myself to imagine getting old together.

Oh and i havent 'treated' him like anything. I let him live his life how he wants. I just dont trust him

I just dont trust him

How does that manifest itself though? Can you keep those feelings secret or do you check up.on him, question him?

I just cannot imagine living with someone that I didn't trust. The anxiety would be too much to cope with.

@TequilaPilates

You are understandably placing how you feel about loss of trust andxtransferring it onto the OP. I get it. I cant imagine it either.

Except I too lived it. It's really only after I escaped that I understood what had happened. How my love for him had been twisted and perverted for fuel.

When I left the big ex in 2015 it was amazing how a lot of low level malingering physical disorders went. You know the expression, how much better we look when we leave a toxic ex.

I blossomed. No anxiety on that scale. Not down. No colds, illness, flu etc! It all went! Bring out if the malignancy of his toxic control.

He would go on to try to bring me down. But ultimately he failed. Now, I need to spread the word.

It's not helpful really to question the OPs gut instinct. Her contagion strand. If she feels it's not right, it's not right. I believe her.

I feel the same about men too and I was brought up to believe that men weren’t to be trusted in the sense that they won’t be faithful, the only decent man I know is my stepfather, him and my mum have been together for 24 years and to me he is everything a family man should be, kind, loyal, trusting, always puts the family before himself, understanding, etc, etc, and I genuinely think that there isn’t another soul like him, even my own father who is a good father, but treats women like crap, he treated my mother like crap when they were together although they’re good pals now, I’m 38 and my parents split when I was a baby, my mum got pregnant with me at 17 and my father was 24 and he told my mum that he didn’t need to wear a condom as he was infertile (a like that still gets used today from what I hear) and I am the product of that ‘infertility’, he dumped my mum when she was pregnant and then took her to court for full custody of me when I was 18 months-2 years, he didn’t win custody of course but I don’t know too many men in their mid to late 20s who would fight for access to their kids never mind full custody, not these days anyway as there are far, far too many deadbeat dads about, they should make it illegal to not bother your arse about your own child.

75Renarde

I'm not addressing the op, nor questioning her. I was having a conversation with another poster on this board and addressing her situation, not the ops.

I may well be looking at this from my own perspective but with respect so are you.

The poster I'm talking to says that she still does not trust her partner of 20 years.

Now that might be his fault because somehow he is giving her reason not to trust him.

Or, it could be her issue because if past experiences and he might be entirely innocent and completely trustworthy and undeserving if this treatment.

This thread though appears to be saying it's always the man at fault. That just cannot be true can it? If someone posted that "all women do this..." we would know that couldn't be true.

@Inappropriatefemale

Your post has STAGGERED me. How on earth can you be so blind to the suffering of your mother? That poor woman.

Did your empathy circuit blow a fuse?

@Tequila

Very reasoned comments. I cannot argue.

This is not a clear cut case. I would agree with that. I also acknowledge I must have bias. Blind spots.

I appreciate your words

I'm the same OP. Been raped a few times and multiple sexual assaults and MANY men with wedding rings propositioning me when I was younger.

I'm amazed at all these women who really believe their husbands would NEVER cheat. I cannot even count the number of shags I could have had, if not affairs, with men who wore suits and wedding rings. One of the things I said most often when younger was "If your wife would be happy with you talking to me like that, then carry on." or pointing at their ring finger with ring on and asking if their wife doesn't mind him picking up a stranger.

The first time a man in a committed relationship made it VERY clear what he wanted, I had just turned 18.

I cannot see me ever getting into another relationship. Not a committed one. I no longer ask my male partners to be monogamous and I tell them I'm not. Funnily enough, men seem quite happy to not be monogamous (unofficially, at least), but FAR less happy for women to be... Its almost like women are viewed as possessions...

I am not blind to the sufferings of my mother, and her relationship with my first stepfather is the reason I was brought up to believe that men weren’t to be trusted, he was always sleeping about and I was told this from her from when I was 12, why on earth are you saying I’m blind to the sufferings of my mother?! Just because I didn’t express my empathy for her doesn’t mean I don’t have any, I know that she was treated like shit from my dad and first stepfather and she deserved to meet the man she is with now, I just didn’t say that because there was no need too, I don’t understand your point?

I'm Hong to put it REALLY clearly for you @Inappropriate

Your dad abused your mum. He then further abused her by attempting to take you. But yet, you're all 'pals'

The POINT is, how can YOU treat your poor mother in such a callous way? Seriously? I'm all ears!

Everytime you talk to your dad and are great mates, it breaks her heart . Shame on you.

They are great mates, you don’t know what the hell your talking about! He has been to 2 of her weddings and they speak once a week on the phone now, all this was 36 years ago, jeez, I’m not going to fall out with my Dad because he treated my mum like shit 36 years ago, even he and my current stepdad have went to football games together.

Doesn’t a father have a right to have custody of his child? If he didn’t bother doing anything then he’d be a cunt there.

The thread was about men not being trusted, not mothers who got treated like shit 36 years ago, should my mother have held a grudge for 36 years? People that do these things are extremely bitter I find.

@kristallen

Bang on. You've hit the nail on the head with this comment.

"Funnily enough, men seem quite happy to not be monogamous (unofficially, at least), but FAR less happy for women to be... Its almost like women are viewed as possession"

Women ARE viewed as possessions by men who have NPD. Precisely so.

You are doing the right thing. Keeping your powder dry. You are clearly intelligent.

Thought experient: if more women did as you do, not having relationships and now I imagine curtailing even casual sex, what would the impact on society be?

I'm not arguing that you should date. I'm just delineating a question.