How do you even begin to like/trust men

[EternallyUntrusting]

I'm 36 years old. I can hand on my heart say I don't like men. There are some men I have respect for at work (they are good at their jobs), but I don't like men.

If you knew me in real life you would think the absolute opposite. I dress 'for the male gaze', I outgoing, chatty, flirty, very confident. But to a man, I cannot stand the fuckers.

Every significant man since I was a child has turned out to be an utter cunt. My father beat and abused my mother and us. My first husband (lovely man to all and sundry), cheated on me and left me with 3 small children. I was single for a long time then. Lots of therapy, very angry with men and therapy seemed to consist of 'they aren't all the same, you are seeking out these men, good men exist'. My male therapist then fucking messaged me when he was drunk!

I then met a lovely man. Kind, successful, no drug problem, no criminal record. Promised me the absolute earth, my DC fell in love with him, when our DD was 9 mths old he walked out the door and I haven't seen him since (4 years ago).

Since then i've pretty much gone off my rocker. I am aware of how i am acting. I've actively sought out men to prove my theory that given long enough, given enough opportunity and the promise of it never getting out every single one of those fuckers will cheat on their wives/girlfriends or at least cross a line they shouldn't be crossing.

And I hate them for it. Even today, stood at the train station sheltering from the rain, a man about 20 years older than me starts a conversation about the brexit vote. Perfectly pleasant 10 min conversation. Then asks me for a drink. You sure your wife won't mind? He was wearing a fucking wedding ring!!

The same on here thread after thread after thread of 'lovely family men' cheating, using women for wife work, hiding from putting their kids to bed and just nasty useless cocklodgers.

Am I going to hate men for the rest of my life? Even now I've tried to stop proving to myself what wankers they are they seem to go out of their way to prove it to me!

Christ almighty, women don't "hate" men, rational, experience borne wariness and avoidance to protect ourselves from rape, unwilling impregnation and murder is a totally rational response to same.

You aren't on board until you are literally vocally calling out other men for their misogyny the way it would be expected in response to gross, outright racism. Just feeling your own nice-guy-ness is an abjectly inadequate response to actual literal violence against actual literal women and the widespread rape & murder of women on a fucking daily basis. 👏

I'm so sorry to hear that you've been through so much. I can see where you are coming from. Once you trust someone, your trust is then broken time after time. It then, puts you in the frame of mind that every man is like it. I agree with another poster, that I think you have just unfortunately met a few bad ones. My sister has. It breaks my heart because I know she wants to settle, but they cheat or only want a casual relationship knowing full well she wants other things.

I believe your experiences, but there are many of us with overwhelming positive experiences with men. I've never been cheated on, never seen cheating in my family or friends, never known anyone abusive, I have never had men inappropriately touch me or force me to do anything even when pissed out of my face. My dad and brothers are decent human beings. It all feels a bit hopeless when people think all men are bad.. so there is no hope for our sons?

@EternallyUntrusting

Totally 100% agree with you - I know some of the men described on here on the relationships thread are not wholly indicative of the male population In general but some of the things I read make my skin crawl and make me feel physically sick - get a dog or a cat instead 😻...love the PP who said think of them as a separate species....good advice.

OP I have just worked with around ten women who have all been abused by vicious men in their relationships. The abuse has continued with the collusion of social services and the utterly misogynistic police. It is absolutely horrifying. I had ten women in front of me...smart, funny, generous, compassionate, and just brilliant. And they were savagely degraded and assaulted by revolting, rotten little men who aren't fit to tie these women's laces!

When I think of the horror men inflict on women every second of every day I am surprised that any woman likes them. What is there to like?

I've been lucky enough to be surrounded by good men. I do think that I wanted, and got, a partner like my Dad.

It's a chicken and egg situation though. I wouldn't put up with a man who wasn't good but it was my dad (with my mum) who gave me the confidence and self esteem to be able to put those boundaries into place.
And luck, that essentially good men weren't swayed by other more attractive options.

A good therapist takes some finding. But, with every penny. I have come such a long way.
My conclusion?
Men are ot magical creatures which was my core belief. They respond best to a sort of detached amusement. Not game playing, simply protecting yourself sensibly and not looking for a good one as such.
Fallible. Flawed. Only to be taken in small doses.
I am probably like you, in that I have only experienced pain, abuse and rejection from the majority of men I've encountered and I include my family in that.
My DH and I have had to work hard much of it was me learning to stop giving abfuckbabout his needs and sort my own out. Not try to be the perfect partner bit be myself for me.
I have stopped sabotaging myself. No more running towards the shit show. Staying clear and watching howbit unfolds.
No romantic shit anymore for me.
None
Its a con job.
Expect from a partner what u would expect from a good friend and only offer the same.
My heart is too scared to be left wide open anymore. I am Mich more protective

Judges and juries letting off men like Paul Gascoigne for deeply sexist reasons.

The jury in the Gascoigne trial had women members. That was nothing to do with the judge.

You can't just misrepresent facts to claim that everything's the fault of men.

The way the op talks about her son - whose fault will it be if he is screwed up by her attitude towards him? Imagine being raised by someone who despises the most fundamental thing about you - your sex?

Is he likely to grow up hating women because of his mum?

Expect from a partner what u would expect from a good friend and only offer the same.

I think that is wise advice.

The jury in the Gascoigne trial had women members. That was nothing to do with the judge.

I did say like PG as it's an example of how crimes against women are treated - but yes sorry that particular case wasn't the judge, and yes juries have women on them - as I said earlier women can also perpetuate misogyny.

To be more specific, there are many reports of male judges and barrister blaming women's underwear etc for them being attacked, and cases of male judges giving very low sentences or none for sexual/DV attacks.

as I said earlier women can also perpetuate misogyny.

I agree. In fact sometimes women judge other women more harshly.

To be more specific, there are many reports of male judges and barrister blaming women's underwear etc for them being attacked, and cases of male judges giving very low sentences or none for sexual/DV attacks.

Wasn't it a female barrister who raised the underwear worn in a high profile rape case fairly recently?

I'm appalled that your therapist messaged you when he was drunk, how dare he! 😠

As a therapist myself who works largely in the abuse/sexual trauma field - I have also developed a general mistrust/dislike of men, and honestly it's a struggle to be open minded and non-judgemental with male clients at times (obviously I'm working through this in supervision).

When a female client who has been abused talks about hating men and never trusting them again, I still 'trot out the not all men line' as a pp put it - because what else am I meant to say? Plus I still deep down believe it which I'm sure is a good thing.

I have a great partner and many male friends/family who I love, but they're still selfish and entitled in many ways. They are examples of the good men I believe are out there in that they wouldn't abuse or rape women (I hope!). But a lot of the inequality is so insidious and subtle.

I feel the same too

I’d like to be “good friends” with a man but it’s never been possible because they always end up hitting on me/expecting me to sleep with them. I do have some wonderful gay male friends. Even when I’ve had casual sex, all I ask for is respect, similar to what you’d show any other human being. The men haven’t even been capable of that.

appalled that your therapist messaged you when he was drunk
yeah but think about it, therapist is a very attractive career for any kind of predator...

OP - does it matter if you do hate men for the rest of your life. You already say you don’t want a relationship so if you can function on a societal level then I don’t think it’s an issue.

I can’t see anything of worth any men would bring to my life other than the couple I already know. Im perfectly happy with that!

for all your dreadful experiences.

Do you not think that all those men are married to women who think they are lovely family men/brothers/uncles/sons?

^

Agreed.. Regardless of this you have women bleating on, 'oh, I trust only my dad, uncle, brother, DH' etc etc.

These are those men?!?!

I feel you OP. Every man I've known has let me down spectacularly and proven themselves to be an utterly selfish twat mainly ruled by their dicks. Even the 'nice guys' at work will cheat on their wives at any opportunity. The only person who hasnt lived up to this expectation so far is my husband of nearly 20yrs and yet i still dont trust him or believe in our future because in the back of my mind i know he will let me down too soon enough. I know that 'NAMALT' just every man i've known and I dont know how to deal with feeling this way.

I grew up as a feminist and thought times had changed, treated men as friends, with respect and as my equal. What I got back was very different especially in the work place.

^^

Totally agree with this. And I think it will get worse.

and thought times had changed
I think they have, women do have a bit more clout and they are gradually accessing area's previously only open to men.
I think the bad behaviour is a form of backlash, we should not be surprised, no one willingly lets go of the whip hand (lest the whip be turned on them-the fate of the bully is never a good one)
Society is shifting.

I've read the responses. I'm not in tears anymore. One time, I would have been.

The stories everyone are highlighting are absolutly true. Female Empaths are at war with Male narcs. The obverse is of course true but nowhere near on the same scale. That does not mean that we should not honour and support male Empaths. In many ways it's far harder for them than it us.

Violence and abuse against women are now at epidemic proportions. A lot of this is being driven by the CANCER which is OnLine Dating (OLD - believe me it is. The OLDEST trick in the book, catch a vulnerable woman.)

Men are systematically raping and abusing women. And they are largely getting away with it too. The system, designed by men, is now keeping men out of Chokey whilst ensuring that women are kept in their own jail. The jail of their heads. Their minds.

I've had too many bad experiences at the hands of Men to count. From my father to my husband and everything in between. Empaths are used as ersatz batteries by narcs. It has to stop. It will stop.

Thats why I am now #therenarderesistance

The only person who hasnt lived up to this expectation so far is my husband of nearly 20yrs and yet i still dont trust him or believe in our future because in the back of my mind i know he will let me down too soon enough.

Why would you stay with someone that you don't trust? And for 20 years? How would that feel, being married to someone who doesn't trust you, for 20 years?

Imagine if a woman posted on here that she'd been married for 20 years yet her husband didn't trust her?

@TequilaPilates

Stop. You are now poking at the trauma bond.

Do you understand this?

I know how you feel OP. I could have written your post. Then I met someone absolutely lovely when I wasn't expecting to, I'd given up. I almost missed the boat completely, and heard he had a girlfriend now. I asked him, and it's new, he doesn't think it'll work out so we're going to start seeing each other when he splits up with her, which is as soon as he has talked to her.

Stop testing out men to see if they are willing to cheat, it's a waste of time. Just enjoy your life a a single person, you'll meet someone soon enough. Just don't miss an opportunity because you think all men are awful

#therenarderesistance is an interesting blog on this topic - thanks to 75renarde for the recommendation.

I wish l liked women enough to be a lesbian, or had no sex drive and no desire for DC. I’d cut out men entirely if I could.