How do you even begin to like/trust men

[EternallyUntrusting]

I'm 36 years old. I can hand on my heart say I don't like men. There are some men I have respect for at work (they are good at their jobs), but I don't like men.

If you knew me in real life you would think the absolute opposite. I dress 'for the male gaze', I outgoing, chatty, flirty, very confident. But to a man, I cannot stand the fuckers.

Every significant man since I was a child has turned out to be an utter cunt. My father beat and abused my mother and us. My first husband (lovely man to all and sundry), cheated on me and left me with 3 small children. I was single for a long time then. Lots of therapy, very angry with men and therapy seemed to consist of 'they aren't all the same, you are seeking out these men, good men exist'. My male therapist then fucking messaged me when he was drunk!

I then met a lovely man. Kind, successful, no drug problem, no criminal record. Promised me the absolute earth, my DC fell in love with him, when our DD was 9 mths old he walked out the door and I haven't seen him since (4 years ago).

Since then i've pretty much gone off my rocker. I am aware of how i am acting. I've actively sought out men to prove my theory that given long enough, given enough opportunity and the promise of it never getting out every single one of those fuckers will cheat on their wives/girlfriends or at least cross a line they shouldn't be crossing.

And I hate them for it. Even today, stood at the train station sheltering from the rain, a man about 20 years older than me starts a conversation about the brexit vote. Perfectly pleasant 10 min conversation. Then asks me for a drink. You sure your wife won't mind? He was wearing a fucking wedding ring!!

The same on here thread after thread after thread of 'lovely family men' cheating, using women for wife work, hiding from putting their kids to bed and just nasty useless cocklodgers.

Am I going to hate men for the rest of my life? Even now I've tried to stop proving to myself what wankers they are they seem to go out of their way to prove it to me!

Just out of interest Google says in the UK men are 22 times more likely to be imprisoned than women

Just out of interest Google says in the UK men are 22 times more likely to be imprisoned than women

But that statistic alone proves nothing. It could be that courts are more lenient when sentencing women, particularly if they have children.

I think it’s more likely that male behaviour is considerably worse than women’s behaviour.

I think it’s more likely that male behaviour is considerably worse than women’s behaviour.

Well that me be the case, or it might not be - that's the thing with just b something in isolation. You need to look at the data behind it.

I'm with you OP.

After an extremely violent relationship and then a relationship with a manipulative, horrid emotional abuser I feel ruined for life.

I'm with someone new now. A friend that I've known for years.
I trust him implicitly, he cares about me, I feel comfortable around him, we laugh with each other, we help each other.
I love his DC and he loves mine.

But I'm still keeping him at arms length. I don't want to get too invested because I know just how quickly things can turn sour and nasty.
Which is ridiculous, I've known him for years.
I'm not worried, I just feel 'meh, it's happened to me before, why wouldn't it happen again?'
It's a really sad outlook to have on life and dating.

I'm seeing a therapist now to try and get to the bottom of why I can't seem to start afresh and it is helping. I still don't know if I'll ever fully trust again though.

It's shut, but as my therapist said, it's also self-preservation.

"I think it’s more likely that male behaviour is considerably worse than women’s behaviour."

Certainly men are more aggressive, on average. Aggression also tends to manifest differently in the sexes - physically in men, and via social / reputation attack in women. And the disparity is greater at the extremes of the distribution.

So, whilst I'm no fan of the sentiments of the OP, I understand statements like this and I understand why this thread exists. An awful lot of men treat women very, very badly.

Absolutely, men are trash.
Meeting my DP, who is great, has only compounded this belief as by comparison I now see how awful every other man I’ve been near has been... there are obviously exceptions to the rule but not enough to ensure ALL women don’t have at least one bad experience

if anything women are judged more harshly than men for committing crimes (broadly speaking)

I'm with you OP. There has never been a man in my life (including my father) who hasn't disappointed me, let me down or disgusted me in some way. In fact most have done all 3.

The only male who has shown any loyalty to me is my dog. I'll stick with him, I'm done with the human ones they're crap!

Yes I agree about the single parent phenomenon. When married I certainly had other married men be flirtatious. But no invites.

But single? Yes lots of married men make themselves available. And by god they are rude about their wives. Men like this really do separate women into categories; ones to be pursued and ones to do the washing and cooking.

"if anything women are judged more harshly than men for committing crimes (broadly speaking)"

I'm afraid this is untrue generally (with no doubt some particular exceptions), and in fact the opposite is, arguably, the case - library.college.police.uk/docs/hofindings/r10.pdf

Generally men are more likely to receive custodial sentences for the same crime, those sentences are also longer.

I make no value judgement on this, in many cases it is no doubt because the ramifications (say, to children) of locking women up are more serious to more innocent parties.

I just don't think you can easily make the claim that the justice system is "easier on men".

I’m sorry but those stats mean very little. Custody is imposed for the seriousness of the crime. There will be lots of individual circumstances which are relevant.

But I don’t think anyone is being controversial to say that men commit more violent and sexual offences against women and children than women do. The difference is obvious within the prison system.

The other uncomfortable truth is that contrary to myth, the man is most likely to attack you is a partner or husband. Not some stranger.

It's sometimes down to bad luck too.

I have had a number of relationships and in the main have all been very positive. I work in an all male environment and lots of decent men at work as well as some bad eggs.

I have quite a fierce personality though so not sure if that automatically removes some men. I tend to attract a very similar type of man, the quiet gentle type who likes domineering women. Sounds odd but you see what I mean hopefully.

I have now been married 16 years.. My husband is amazing. Even if out relationship will change in the future I can say that he has been an amazi g partner. Frankly if he became u happy I hope he had the courage to leave as I hate the way couples sometimes destroy each other will cheating etc

I hear you, I don't hate men but a lot of men cheat.

Ps it is true that men keep their distance because I am married. This has certainly helped me in my positive views with men at work.. Although they flirt sometimes, they haven't cross any boundaries.

feistymumma So do women

@Jiggles101 When a female client who has been abused talks about hating men and never trusting them again, I still 'trot out the not all men line' as a pp put it - because what else am I meant to say?

I said this to Amal's therapist recently who said that it makes sense that I don't trust men based on my experiences with them.

He's also said - and was the FIRST person in over 10 years since the op - "Yes, of course" to me saying that having a breast reduction changed, overnight, how men looked at me and treated me. Every. Single. Other. Person had basically responded that I thought too much of myself (in one way or another) or that I was talking from confirmation bias. Simply treating these experiences as my reality (although with the reduction, his tone implied that it was blatantly obvious that I'd be treated differently) rather than NAMALT was a relief.

Obviously too there's the dynamic where I'm telling these things to a man...

@75Renarde Thought experient: if more women did as you do, not having relationships and now I imagine curtailing even casual sex, what would the impact on society be?

I'm not exactly curtailing casual sex because I was never majorly into that. I have semi-casual sex!

If you look at some matriarchal society setups, it's the women's biological male relatives who help bring up children with their mothers. Fathers are involved too, but the burden falls to the brothers. I actually think this makes most sense. The woman can have sex or relationships with whomever she likes (obviously consensually) and if it goes tits up she's not tied to him, for child-rearing, or left alone. It means men are freer too. I haven't looked too much into it tbh but on the surface it does appear to make more sense.

And interestingly, matriarchal societies are not patriarchal societies with women at the top. There's less violence and more equality. I'm sure there are pitfalls too, but rather interesting I find!