How do you even begin to like/trust men

[EternallyUntrusting]

I'm 36 years old. I can hand on my heart say I don't like men. There are some men I have respect for at work (they are good at their jobs), but I don't like men.

If you knew me in real life you would think the absolute opposite. I dress 'for the male gaze', I outgoing, chatty, flirty, very confident. But to a man, I cannot stand the fuckers.

Every significant man since I was a child has turned out to be an utter cunt. My father beat and abused my mother and us. My first husband (lovely man to all and sundry), cheated on me and left me with 3 small children. I was single for a long time then. Lots of therapy, very angry with men and therapy seemed to consist of 'they aren't all the same, you are seeking out these men, good men exist'. My male therapist then fucking messaged me when he was drunk!

I then met a lovely man. Kind, successful, no drug problem, no criminal record. Promised me the absolute earth, my DC fell in love with him, when our DD was 9 mths old he walked out the door and I haven't seen him since (4 years ago).

Since then i've pretty much gone off my rocker. I am aware of how i am acting. I've actively sought out men to prove my theory that given long enough, given enough opportunity and the promise of it never getting out every single one of those fuckers will cheat on their wives/girlfriends or at least cross a line they shouldn't be crossing.

And I hate them for it. Even today, stood at the train station sheltering from the rain, a man about 20 years older than me starts a conversation about the brexit vote. Perfectly pleasant 10 min conversation. Then asks me for a drink. You sure your wife won't mind? He was wearing a fucking wedding ring!!

The same on here thread after thread after thread of 'lovely family men' cheating, using women for wife work, hiding from putting their kids to bed and just nasty useless cocklodgers.

Am I going to hate men for the rest of my life? Even now I've tried to stop proving to myself what wankers they are they seem to go out of their way to prove it to me!

How long were you single for when you say single for a long time? You say you've gone out of your way to prove your theory right after your 4Th child, has that been continuous since he left?

I've every sympathy but maybe see a female therapist and have a long break from men to sort your head out.

You’ve known some bad men. Lots of them. But they’re just people like women are. Good ones. Bad ones.

I had an alcoholic, abusive, cheating boyfriend and an abusive husband but my now husband is a wonderful man, he’s my best friend, and loyal, faithful, kind, gentle, a fantastic father and an all round good egg. I have several wonderful male friends who are also decent people who love and respect their partners/wives/children if they have them. There are some out there.

Have you had therapy since the crappy guy messaged you? Sounds like you’ve got some stuff to pick through.

I don’t have any answers but I wholeheartedly sympathise, because I feel the same way. My therapist is female but she also trots out the “not all men” line. I have never had a relationship that wasn’t abusive, I have no children and look very unlikely to have any. It’s a very lonely and empty existence.

Stay single then? Dating is not mandatory and you already have 4 children maybe just concentrate on them.

I wonder the same thing OP. I've just come out of a horrendous 6 year marriage with an abusive narcissist who emotionally abused me and was constantly on dating apps and sex sites. How can you ever trust someone again after that?!

I feel the same. No words of wisdom but I hear you.

Don't know OP but I understand how you feel. I kind of like the idea of a relationship... but he would have to be genuinely lovely, and while I know they do exist, I don't trust myself not to be taken in by one of the many apparently lovely, actually a twat ones. Even "nice" men who think they are nice and don't mean to be twats, are mostly essentially entitled, selfish misogynists but just can't see it. I was chatting to an old friend from uni, he really is a nice man in many ways but... it transpired he couldn't grasp why him fucking off on long work jollies all the time and leaving his wife with 2 young DC with SN might not be the best recipe for her feeling positive towards him.

It's an endless, uphill battle dealing with embedded misogyny and a large part of me just can't be arsed to have it lodged in my life any more, on top of it being part of the general landscape.

I don't hate all men - I do believe that there's a chance I could meet a great one but it's a very small chance and I'm not holding my breath. It's not so bad accepting that a relationship is not really on the cards. It's kind of a relief.

Indeed, maybe "not all me". But society is completely set up to their advantage so why the fuck wouldn't they? And they do. So yeah, not all men, but at the same time all men...

*men not me

(Meanwhile my ex, who made my life a misery with his lying, gaslighting, lazy, selfish, self-regarding twatteryness, is all loved up with his new GF who he found easily a few months after I ended it. While I don't begrudge them their happiness if it really is happy, I also can't help seeing it with hollow cynicism and thinking she's going to have a shit time if/when she stops being a source of adulation for him and his mask slips. And then I think, that's where I'll probably be too if I ever think I've found Mr Wonderful, as she thinks he is now. It's hard to put your rose-tinted glasses back on.)

I feel exactly the same OP. The only man I love is my lovely DS, the rest can do one.

My long time single was 5 years.

Yes I have 4 DC, 2 of them now older teenagers, so i'm not some feckless woman looking to introduce their next daddy. DD's father did enough damage in that area.

I just can't see how therapy is going to help. I had a lot of therapy (CBT, psychotherapy and normal relationship counselling) and it's the same shit "daddy issues", not all men and you are attracting these men to you.

'These men' being the exact lovely kind caring family men that people trot out on here.

Yeah you're attracting them to you OP - by being a woman. Cheating twat married men are by definition attracted to other women! I've also heard many single mums say attached men hit on them, because they see them as desperate for a shag and and easy target. It's not exactly your fault is it.

My dad and my three sons are good men. They do exist.

Your first mistake is your tarnishing all men with the same brush. I wouldn,t go out to find a man if it happens it happens, but if you treat all men with distrust or disdain then your making a mistake too. Be happy being single and wait ad see. Good eggs and bad eggs. (Don,t think there that different from women really.)

@june2007, women do not beat, cheat on or leave their children in anywhere near the numbers that men do.

Good eggs and bad eggs is frankly trite nonsense

How sad. I'm sorry to hear of all your bad experiences. My experiences with men have been 99% positive and I love men and their company. If you don't want to be with a man you don't have to be.

So don't bother with them.

The problem is most people are arseholes! I've been cheated on three times, 1 abusive relationship and 1 women who told she aborted my child simply to hurt me. I now realise it wasnt necessarily them but my own lack of self esteem that attracted these people. I now realise that I'm worth more and while still single I'm hopeful for the future.

I find an awful lot of men like this too, but I also know women in relationships with men who at least seem decent. If you were raised by an abusive man then that will attract other abusive men to you, but there are also a lot of these men out there - supposedly nice men who have no willpower as well, weak and selfish, perhaps, rather than evil. It's entitlement, how men's relationships with the opposite sex are formed by socialisation, based upon the idea of getting one over on women - from the seduction game and the idea of tricking a woman into sex, to men thinking of their wife as being a 'ball and chain', so the're only a real man if they're not 'pussywhipped' and do things behind her back. I've always got on well with men as friends, but that's often been disappointing too, when they've only seen my value as someone they think they can potentially f*. I think some men have really really messed up and selfish ideas of a woman as being their possession in a relationship. With me, they have resorted to all sorts of deceit and coercive behaviours to keep me where they want me without a thought to my well-being, me being their emotional punchbag or expecting me to mother them, with me getting nothing in return. I now look back on these relationships and am angry at them, but also at myself for what I put up with. I think you can tell a lot about a man you're getting involved with by looking at his parents' relationship.
When I was younger I had a lot of internalised misogyny and preferred men to women, now in later life I've woken up to how little I've been valued by men in my life, and so now I see men's bad behaviour everywhere. It's very unhealthy to go looking for evidence of men being cheating scumbags though, just concentrate on the well-being of yourself and your family, you don't need to be involved with a man. I've resigned myself to the fact that I may remain single, and actually, compared to the times I've had in relationships, I'm OK with that. There are other things in life that can make you happy, go after those. On the plus side, now you have experience so you can better protect yourself in the future.

I've never trusted any men outside of my family so I completely understand what you mean. Even as I talk to a man, its like I have a intuitive feeling that hes chatting shit basically. Hence, why I keep them all at a safe distance. My last "boyfriend", he would always say I don't trust him and for two years I said nope I do not; it eventually was revealed that I had VERY good reason not to. I'm certainly not holding my breath in hoping that I find a "trust worthy" man.

I agree with what you say completely. They're mostly utter shits tbh. The vast majority of men would cheat on their other halfs given half a chance.

Also, your therapist is an utter dick, not only for texting you, but in victim-blaming and saying you go after these types of men. These types of men go after women who they detect have low self-esteem, lowered boundaries etc who they can prey on.

You've met shits. They are out there. My DP is one, my DB, DF and DGF are all good, kind, decent men.